033: Strength Training, TRX, And The TRUTH About Working Out
Have you ever thought about how much time you really spend sitting every single day? Maybe you drive to and from work, sit in front of a computer screen, and by the time you get home you’re so exhausted all you want to do is lie down on the couch…
Well, the average American now spends 21 hours a day sitting or sleeping, leaving just three hours for standing, walking, and moving around. And study after study has shown how all this sitting is making us sicker and shortening our lifespans.
So what can you do about it — especially when it can be so hard to find the time to get moving?
Well, on this episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast, I’ll be talking to Brett Bartholomew, a fitness expert who works with high-performance athletes and the best-selling author of Conscious Coaching: The Art and Science of Building Buy-In.
Brett and I discuss the absolute easiest ways for YOU to get up and moving (even if it means doing a few squats while brushing your teeth!). We’ll also discuss motivation, dealing with negativity, the “Little League” mistake many parents are making, and much, much more.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- How this “healthy hobby” nearly killed Brett (2:00)
- Brett’s insane hospital experience and how it almost derailed his recovery (6:15)
- How you can use Brett’s “4 pillars of wellness” to start living a healthier, more active lifestyle (they’re easier than you think) (10:00)
- My personal prescription to get YOU up and moving more often (12:30)
- The two simple exercises fitness legend and longevity icon Jack LaLanne incorporated into his routine every day (and how you can do them too) (15:10)
- The “gut buddy” exercise secret almost NO ONE is talking about (20:00)
- My recommendation for the only home fitness device you’ll ever need (24:50)
- The “Little League” mistake that may be harming your child’s athletic development (30:00)
- What really determines a football player’s success — hint: it’s NOT what you think (37:00)
- The 5 things keeping YOU from staying fit and healthy, and how you can outsmart them (42:30)
- Brett’s trick for using negative feedback to accomplish your goals (48:10)
- The method I use to write all of my books (50:00)
- One food you should NEVER feed to your kids (51:30)
Mentioned in this episode:
Dr. Gundry: 00:00 Hey there, welcome to another exciting episode of the, Dr Gundry podcast. The weekly podcast where I give you the tools you need to support you gut, boost your health, and live your youngest, healthiest life.
Dr. Gundry: 00:19 So, before we get into this week’s episode, let’s take a look at our review of the week. Mitzi Durtzu [Charlie 00:00:26] writes, “Love your podcast. Dr Gundry, thank you for the work you do in making this important information available. Can you talk about Kombucha? Is it plant paradox approved? Please, please consider reading your next audio book. I will be listening. Thank you.”
Dr. Gundry: 00:41 So, Mickey, I just completed reading the audio book of the, longevity paradox. And, because of the complaints of previous readers, and I promise I will read my next book which will be out this holiday season of 2019, of how to feed your family.
Dr. Gundry: 01:05 Kombucha, you’ve got to be careful. And, I’ve done a podcast on this. Most Kombucha’s pure sugar. So, you’ve got to look at the sugar of these products. And, most Kombucha is two servings, so you have to multiply everything you see by two, and you will be shocked.
Dr. Gundry: 01:23 So, if you want me to read your review, make sure to rate and review the Dr Gundry podcast on iTunes.
Dr. Gundry: 01:31 Welcome to the Dr Gundry show. So, on this episode of the podcast, we’re going to talk about the simple things that you can do, to keep yourself motivated to achieve your health goals. And the five things that might be holding you back. We’re going to dive into how you can help diversify your child’s athletic development, while allowing them to stay a kid. And, this is so important, you’ve all got to tune in and listen to this if you’ve got kids. And, you’re worried about them and their athletic development.
Dr. Gundry: 02:05 On today’s show, we’ve got Brett Bartholomew. Brett is a keynote speaker, he’s a performance coach and consultant. He’s a best selling author of, Conscious Coaching. And, founder of the performance coaching and consulting company, The Bridge Human Performance.
Dr. Gundry: 02:25 So, his experience includes working with athletes both in the team environment and in the private sector. Along with members of the United States Special Forces, and members of Fortune 500 companies. Brett, welcome to the podcast. Thrilled to have you here.
Brett B.: 02:40 Thanks, Dr Gundry, thanks for having me.
Dr. Gundry: 02:42 So, Brett is a fellow Nebraskan. Omahan, who now lives in Atlanta, Georgia. One of my other favorite towns, where I spend a lot of time. So, how did a good old corn husker get into the business of motivation?
Brett B.: 03:00 Yeah, so I certainly don’t want to bore your listeners. But, the long story short is; so, when I was 15 years old, I was a competitive athlete. And, a lot of my friends at the time had kind of taken a wrong turn. Gotten into a lot of fairly hardcore drugs. And, this was quite a predominant social circle at this time in my life. You know, and during this period, my parents were also going through a divorce.
Brett B.: 03:22 So, I had turned to what I knew at the time. Which, for me was training, and sports, and just really got into … it became a little bit of a control for me that any time I dealt with a negative emotion, or any kind of anxiety, I’d just go train, or do something that I thought was positive for my body.
Brett B.: 03:41 Unfortunately, at 15 I didn’t really have a whole lot of great information as it pertained to training, or diet, nutrition, anything like that. And so, eventually what was a hobby, turned into an obsession, and then a compulsion. You know, I probably went through a fair spell of depression at the time, and training was just my outlet.
Brett B.: 04:02 Well, one day I was running around the bottom of my high school. Because, you could run a couple times around it to be a mile during those beautiful Nebraska winters, as you well know; and, I blacked out. And, I had gone to see a doctor, and the doctor said, “You know, you have basically created so much internal damage due to malnutrition, overexertion … ” Just things that I was completely blind to.
Brett B.: 04:25 Because, I’m sure you remember those silly fads where everybody was eating low fat, no sugar added. You know, and that’s what all these magazines told me to do at 15. And, I didn’t have any information to kind of combat that.
Brett B.: 04:37 So, I was eventually put in an eating disorder hospital of all things, to help me regain that weight. The sad thing is, Dr Gundry, in that hospital, they focused very little on underlying causes, and more so on the symptoms.
Brett B.: 04:51 So, you were put on the eighth floor of the hospital wing in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Your blood was drawn every morning at five AM. For the first two weeks I was not able to shower, because they thought the initial shock of hot or cold would send me into cardiac arrest. And, what should’ve been this really kind of positive, helpful place, to help people get back on their feet; was really a power dynamic, ego-ridden, kind of battle ground for a lot of the nurses, the doctors, the therapists.
Brett B.: 05:22 Just a lot of unhappy people that were there. So, long story short, you go into this place where you have all these specialists, all these subject matter experts. But, they know very little about human beings. So, all they do is focus on what they see in front of them, rather than the person.
Brett B.: 05:37 You know, unfortunately, that kind of treatment cost some people in that hospital their life. They were not able to get better. They were not able to kind of fight through that. I eventually met a therapist who convinced my parents, because I was a minor at the time; that this probably wasn’t the best treatment option for me. That my issues were a little bit more behavioral, especially dealing with just depression, and anxiety, and the changes that were going on in my life.
Brett B.: 06:01 I remember when I got out of that hospital, you know I was 15 Dr Gundry, and a nurse at the time, as I was walking out said, “You’ll be back.” And I remember I looked at her and I thought, “How weird is this?” I said, “You know, you’re right. I will be back to speak to all these people that you couldn’t help.”
Brett B.: 06:17 So, I just remember right then I made a conscious decision that I knew, for me to save my own life, or to get in better health, I had to learn proper diet. I had to learn proper nutritional habits. I had to learn proper strength and conditioning. Because, I had lost a significant amount of lean mass.
Brett B.: 06:31 I also knew that I wanted to study psychology fairly in depth. Because, it really wasn’t a subject matter, or a certain kind of recipe, or magic bullet that was going to help folks like myself or others in the hospital. It was understanding what made them tick. And, their failure to do so put me on the path to try and solve that problem for other people.
Dr. Gundry: 06:50 Yeah. So, yeah, you’re right. I know actually, the hospital that you’re talking about. And, it’s interesting, I have a lot of patients who describe … who have had eating disorders, or who continue to have them. And, they basically tell me that these are training grounds to perpetuate the eating disorder. That you actually learn tricks on how to perpetuate your eating disorder, rather than the other way around.
Brett B.: 07:24 Yeah, I mean, without a doubt. Literally, the hours that you are kind of … you have to sit in a day room that probably isn’t much bigger than most folks listening to this, their living room. And, there’s plexiglass windows in which you’re under continuous observation.
Brett B.: 07:39 Now, I don’t know if it still looks like this. I’m 33 now, it’s been a while. But, I remember if you were fidgeting, if you were standing, if you were doing anything; they would rap once on the glass for a warning. If you did it again, that was twice because of non-exercise thermogenesis. You did it a third time, you were either made to drink a meal replacement, you were fed intravenously, or some other punitive … treatment wise.
Brett B.: 08:01 It was just a very interesting, negative kind of place. Where you’re absolutely right. More people learned the art of subterfuge there than they did any kind of healthy coping mechanism for a long term behavior change.
Dr. Gundry: 08:15 So, fast forward, where did you take that? How in the heck did you get into coaching elite athletes or elite executives?
Brett B.: 08:27 Yeah, sure. So, after that, I knew that again, I had to rebuild my body. I had lost a significant percentage of lean mass. So, the way I wanted to do that was not body building, or not anything like that. Being a former athlete, performance was always top of mind.
Brett B.: 08:46 I even boxed competitively for United States Golden Gloves. And I [inaudible 00:08:51] amateur tournaments. So, I was always on a performance track. You grow up as a young child in Nebraska, in the shadow of the corn huskers, wanting to play football and baseball, and think you’re going to be a pro.
Brett B.: 09:02 So, I went to Kansas State University, got my undergraduate in Kinesiology. Again, with a focus more so on performance. My Master’s Degree was on motor learning. I’ve always been fascinated with how the elite of the elite learn the skills that they do. Whether that’s a neurosurgeon’s fine motor control, or whether that is an American football player being able to cut, and change, and spin 360 degrees. It’s just always fascinated me, how we become so talented at human movement, and how we can do that under various constraints.
Brett B.: 09:35 So, after my graduate degree, I had interned at a company that really specialized in the off season training of elite athletes. Later on, it also partnered with companies like, Google and Tesla, and the Mayo Clinic. So, you have a lot of cross-over opportunities in one day even, to work with some elite major league baseball players, NFL players, major league soccer. And then, in the morning, sometimes you’d even work with Google Exec’s or people that were really trying to bring performance elements into the healthcare setting.
Brett B.: 10:06 Because, we know that elite athletes have access to so many integrated services that the general population doesn’t get access to. And, so it was this company’s goal to kind of bring that into healthcare systems in corporate scenarios.
Brett B.: 10:20 So, that was really kind of where I got all my craft in that degree. Also worked in collegiate athletics for a while, but that was the pathway.
Dr. Gundry: 10:28 Interesting. So, you know, right now we’ve got an epidemic of … because, of our devices, all we do is sit. And, we have a sedentary lifestyle and I’m never going to be an elite athlete. So, how do you translate, looking at these super elites, who have the best equipment, the best handlers, the best everything. How do you bring that down to the housewife watching this? Or, the young father watching this?
Brett B.: 11:10 Yeah, you bring up a good point, Dr Gundry. I think for me, it’s always about proactive sustainability. Finding what you can do and interweave with your lifestyle. And, also being able to identify pillars. So, if you think of movement, mindset, nutrition, and recovery. We have some pillars of wellness there.
Brett B.: 11:28 You know, and movement doesn’t have to be going to challenge yourself at some intense bootcamp or some athlete like training scenario. It can just be making sure that everyday you take a walk with your partner. It can be incorporating movement into any aspect of your life.
Brett B.: 11:44 So, I think that’s one thing people have to do is, remove these absolutest barriers of what it means to move. And, quit thinking of exercise, but literally using our bodies as they are designed, right? So, we push, we pull, we squat, we hinge, we run, we jump. Find a way relative to your lifestyle, that you can find these movement categories and integrate them.
Brett B.: 12:07 You know, even my mother, being able to talk to her and say, “Mom, I know you’re going to sit down, you love movies, you love this. And, who am I to tell you any different. But, at least make sure that you weave these five things into your daily kind of lifestyle.”
Brett B.: 12:19 And that could be, standing up and sitting down out of the chair multiple times. That could be … we put a foam roller in her living room. So she can make sure to roll out and address dense tissue, and just getting her moving.
Brett B.: 12:31 And then, mindset, nutrition, and recovery. You know, mindset is just again, removing these kind of mental barriers. Like, what is it that is keeping you from being able to do these things? What is it … even if it’s stress or anxiety, getting people to take a moment, focus on their breath, focus on what their ideal day does look like.
Brett B.: 12:50 Or creative problem solving, just getting out of their own way, and really promoting some form of self awareness. Because, as you know Dr Gundry, we often make mountains in … or mole hills into mountains, and think, “Man, I have this, I have this. ‘No, you’ve got to schedule it. It’s your primer for the day.'”
Brett B.: 13:06 Nutrition, you’re the expert in that, right? Everybody’s got to be able to identify certain gaps, and to be able to bridge those gaps. It’s a very confusing time for a lot of people as you well know.
Brett B.: 13:18 Finally, recovery. Recovery is just taking care of your body and promoting therapeutic, just overall well being. Whether that’s making sure that you get enough sleep if you don’t get enough sleep. How can you structure naps throughout your day? Can you incorporate some form of massage? Just making sure that, that’s accessible.
Dr. Gundry: 13:36 So, you know, I’ve lectured on this. I’ve actually written a lot of my patients a prescription for a dog. And, some of my patients have actually brought that prescription back framed and said it was one of the greatest things … “It was the best prescription a doctor had ever written for them.”
Dr. Gundry: 13:59 I think you’re right. I own … we own three dogs. One recently passed away. But, a dog is probably one of the best motivating tools to make you go do something you probably did not want to do. And, that is take them for a walk twice a day.
Brett B.: 14:17 Yeah, I couldn’t agree more, Dr Gundry. That’s something that my wife and I commit to. Both, really working for ourselves and not having that kind of official start or stop to the day can sometimes mean that our work hours bleed over into various periods, even weekends and what have you.
Brett B.: 14:33 But, we do have a commitment to each other everyday, that we’re going to walk the dogs in the morning and at night. We have two rescue [inaudible 00:14:40] as well. So that makes me smile hearing about that. And, that’s a phenomenal recommendation, you’re spot on.
Dr. Gundry: 14:46 I actually even have a patient that walks their cat. So, when I hear that, “Oh, no I’m a cat owner.” Well, apparently you can walk your cat.
Brett B.: 14:57 Why not.
Dr. Gundry: 14:57 I had a cat in medical school and the cat went for walks with me. So, oh well, it can be done. Little known fact, everybody.
Brett B.: 15:06 There you go.
Dr. Gundry: 15:09 All right, so what you’re saying is, my exercise activity should not be reaching for the refrigerator handle and doing presses with the refrigerator handle.
Brett B.: 15:20 Listen, I think that’s okay as long as you’re doing some other things in conjunction with that, right? And I think you make an excellent point through your humor there too. People too many times focus on what they’re doing wrong, and then they get down trodden. And, that’s okay, we need to be self critical. We don’t want to develop a soft society that is excuse laden.
Brett B.: 15:40 But you know, I think that’s something that also gets people stuck is, they feel like they have to be perfect. You know, I do this for a living, I’m not perfect. Because, it’s about continuity, and it’s about being able to make sure that again, it’s proactively sustainable, and it’s not something that is just off the rails, where’s there’s no way that you can possibly follow it and be perfect every time.
Dr. Gundry: 16:01 Yeah, you know, in my first book, Dr Gundry’s Diet Evolution, and in my upcoming book which is, The Longevity Paradox, how to die young at a ripe old age. In both books, I’ve got a small exercise prescription, part of which, I learned from Jack LaLanne. And, I was lucky enough to know Jack when he was alive.
Dr. Gundry: 16:23 Jack used to say, that there are only two exercises that a person needs to do to work all muscle groups. And that is squats, deep knee bends, and either pushups or planks. I think you’d probably agree with that in terms of working every muscle group.
Dr. Gundry: 16:46 So, what I’ve asked people to do, and I want your feedback on this. Is, you have to brush your teeth twice a day, hopefully. And, while you’re brushing your teeth, and you aught to be doing it for a minute at least. Just do deep knee bends while you’re sitting there brushing your teeth. You’re not doing anything else.
Dr. Gundry: 17:08 It took me … I would say, several weeks for that habit to get ingrained. Sometimes I’d … “Ah, I’m too busy to squat while I’m brushing my teeth.” Then I go, “No, you’re not too busy, you’re standing here.” So, give us some hints on … how do you motivate me, how to you motivate our listeners to squat while they’re brushing their teeth?
Brett B.: 17:36 Yeah, so it’s a funny thing. You know, motivation is temporary in nature, right? We can all do an activity or an exercise right now, or I could show a movie clip and we’d all be motivated. The problem is, is motivation doesn’t stick.
Brett B.: 17:51 The best chance you can alter somebody’s behavior over the long term is really figuring out what drives them. And, there is a distinction between the two. A drive really is kind of intermingling between our limbic system and our prefrontal cortex.
Brett B.: 18:05 So, most people … Professor Antonio Damasio at USC says that, “People typically have these subconscious [inaudible 00:18:13] to bond, acquire, defend, or learn.” So everybody’s got to have some unique thing that really they know they’re going to continue this activity because it provides some sense of pleasure.
Brett B.: 18:27 Well, for most people as you know, exercise or being more active, especially if they’re a little out of shape, doesn’t bring a whole lot of pleasure. So the next step is, I try to really alter the environment. So, to your point exactly about the squats while brushing your teeth, Dr Gundry; we have a little bench at the foot of our bed. And, I’ll actually do that very thing, I’ll either do a hip flexor stretch, or I’ll do a squat. Or, even if I’m on the phone with a friend, I’ll do some form of step up.
Brett B.: 18:53 By having that in the environment, it serves as not only a subconscious cue. But, also an accessory and a partner in crime that allows me, “Okay, I have this here. I can do this. Another one is, a lot of people get, Plantar Fasciitis, especially if it’s been a while since they’ve done activity. So I keep a lacrosse ball right underneath my sink. And, if I’m not squatting or doing anything like that, I’ll roll out the bottom of my feet, the plantar fascia, as I’m brushing my teeth.
Brett B.: 19:18 Because, I know otherwise I may not do that and I’m teaching athletes how to sprint, jump, cut, and I’ll just take a beating. Another example that I gave early on is for my mother and my father, I bought them both foam rollers that sit right between the lamp and the couch.
Brett B.: 19:33 I say listen, “I don’t need anything crazy. But just out of one show, if you’re watching a 30 minute show, get down and roll out your low back, your upper back, your quads.” So, I guess my point is Dr Gundry is, you try to remove these barriers by altering the environment.
Brett B.: 19:48 You know, and that can just be somebody putting a water bottle on their counter so the first thing they do in the morning when they wake up is drink water and hydrate. What can you do in the environment to make it easier for you to adapt to these behaviors?
Brett B.: 20:01 It’s what behavioral scientists refer to as, “Nudges.” I think that’s the critical piece there. Does that answer your question?
Dr. Gundry: 20:07 Yeah, no I think that’s great because we’re at that time of year now, where everybody has either got their gym membership on January first, or they’ve purchased a piece of equipment. And, that piece of equipment is now being a towel rack, or a clothes rack, and you look at it.
Dr. Gundry: 20:27 So, I think the motivation piece in all of this is so important. And, there’s been a lot of talk, actually in the last week about the study … I’m sure you’re well aware of, that men who can do 40 pushups, are going to live a whole lot longer, better, than men who can do 10 pushups, if you follow them from middle age.
Dr. Gundry: 20:55 Now, there’s been a lot of pushback about that study. That, doing pushups has nothing to do with actual health, you’re just strong. Well, I beg to differ with the people who are pushing back. And, I have a lot of studies in the upcoming book, The Longevity Paradox, that exercise, muscle mass, actually changes your gut microbiome, to a gut microbiome that will keep you alive, believe it or not.
Dr. Gundry: 21:28 So, I exercise actually to make my gut bugs happy. It sounds crazy, because I may not be very happy doing that exercise, but I know they will be.
Brett B.: 21:39 Well, they control everything else … Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to butt in.
Dr. Gundry: 21:42 No, they do, that’s exactly right. They control everything else. We just learned today … we know that the gut microbiome talks to our cells, talks to our mitochondria. And, there’s a new paper out today that certain gut bug text messages, actually change, alter genes of humans. It’s actually really exciting, the epigenetics of it.
Brett B.: 22:14 Absolute … I think, I mean that is an incredibly intriguing and emerging part of the literature that I think most people don’t even have access to. And, part of that is, is the problem of the … or the fault of the researchers as well.
Brett B.: 22:29 Because, we have to get better … you know, we’ve lived in the information age long enough that really what separates the world class from everybody else I think, is now being able to do something and communicate with that information. And not an overly simplified way, because you have to be very careful of that. But, we have to get better at knowledge transfer.
Brett B.: 22:50 Otherwise, these people never get this information and that’s where a lot of pseudoscience starts to occur, right? They get very confused, and they shut down, and they don’t want to deal with anything, and we start right back to step one.
Dr. Gundry: 23:02 Yeah, the pushback I’ve seen on the internet, on Twitter, about this particular study is, “Well, that’s ridiculous. There’s no evidence that I should have the ability to do 40 pushups and that’ll make me live a long time. There may be an association, but association is not causation.”
Dr. Gundry: 23:23 And, in your line of work, people point to professional athletes, and you and I both know that in general, professional athletes do not have a long lifespan.
Brett B.: 23:36 Yeah, they’re definitely not all healthy, that’s for … high performing does not mean healthy and vice versa.
Dr. Gundry: 23:45 So, take me through, how do you help a professional athlete? And then, transfer that to me.
Brett B.: 23:55 Yeah, so I’m of the opinion that if you have a body, and we all do, that you’re an athlete, right? I think that we look at people that compete, and in large parts, professional athletes are really in the entertainment industry if you look at the television, and the money, and all this.
Brett B.: 24:12 Human beings by nature are primed for athletic movement. Barring some kind of unfortunate circumstance, or birth defect, or anything like that. We all have the capability to again, push, pull, squat, hinge, run, jump, throw. Our very survival depended on these movement patterns.
Brett B.: 24:32 So, the issue is, just like anything else, if you treat your body … it’s funny, most people treat their homes and their car better than their body. Yet, this is not something that you can ever trade in for a new lease. It’s nothing you can go shop around for.
Brett B.: 24:46 So, I think for my background in motor learning, and even the work that I’m doing within my PhD now, you just continue to show that we’ve got to continually groove these patterns if we want to reduce the amount of resistance or issues we have.
Brett B.: 25:00 So, how I’d start with you is, even though I might have a pro athlete that squats 300 pounds, Dr Gundry, I’m not worried about you doing that. You might again, squat to the chair, you might squat with a light kettle bell. You might do any of those things.
Brett B.: 25:15 We might get a TRX or a suspension device and have you do rows. So the movement patterns stay the same, Dr Gundry, we just kind of adapt them to your own physiology, your fitness level. The same thing with the reps, the sets, the time under tension.
Brett B.: 25:29 The goal isn’t to leave you buried on the ground. Because, then the next day, how are you ever going to continue that behavior. So, minimal effective dose, if I could say one word, finding the minimal effective dose and hitting these things allows us to continue to do it in habituity.
Dr. Gundry: 25:45 I’m glad you brought up TRX, because I’m a big fan of that system. We actually have one in our suitcase that we travel with. For those of us who don’t know, what is a TRX?
Brett B.: 26:00 Yeah, so it’s a suspension training device. Which, that is jargon as well. You just want to think about this as something you can loop over a fixed object. Whether that’s a beam, whether that’s a tree. Now, don’t go out and do this to any tree in your yard. I don’t know … anybody who’s listening.
Brett B.: 26:17 You secure it to a secure, strong, structure and it allows you to use your body weight as resistance. So, there’s two handles, there’s a loop over that secure platform or structure. Whatever you have access to. And, you can do rows, you can do push ups, you can even put your foot in the loop and do some single leg squats.
Brett B.: 26:37 Then, for anybody out there that’s dealing with knee injuries, hip injuries, low back injuries, anything that really is causing you a lot of pain, the nice thing is, it can also support and take off some of your body weight.
Brett B.: 26:48 So some of you that maybe haven’t been able to squat for years, possibly due to arthritis or an old injury; you can actually reduce some of the body weight you’re going to absorb by holding onto these handles, and it will allow you to perform these movements. Which that’s great.
Brett B.: 27:02 I’ve worked with an obese gentleman who’s 450 pounds and just had tremendous pain getting up and out of the chair. And, by the help of the TRX, we’re able to get him into these patterns. And to reintroduce movement into his life again. And, that creates positive associations, and then changes their behavior over the long term.
Dr. Gundry: 27:22 Yeah, the TRX that we have just flips over a door and then you close the door … it has to be a door that locks well. Yeah, so we can go to any hotel in the world and flip it over a doorknob, and have our own gym with us.
Brett B.: 27:41 Yep.
Dr. Gundry: 27:43 So, working with all these folks, how did that prompt the writing of this book?
Brett B.: 27:50 Yeah, so what I learned is that, I could write the best training programs. I could mix in the best exercises, we could do all these things. But, by and large the effectiveness of any programming or anything I did with anybody was, really relying on communication.
Brett B.: 28:06 How well did I connect the dots for them with what we’re doing and why we’re doing it? And not, speaking over there head in some technical jargon. But, being able to really, what I do in the book I call it, “The three R method.” You have to Research, Relate, and Refrain.
Brett B.: 28:21 I need to know what matters to you. What are your goals? What are you obstacles? What’s the language that you speak? So to speak. Then, I’m going to tell you what we’re going to do, but how that relates to everything that I know matters to you.
Brett B.: 28:34 Whether that’s you just being able to go home from work and play with your son or daughter without your back tightening up, or anything like that. I think it also involves some vulnerability on the coaches part. You know, a lot of times people think coaches, or professionals, or experts of any kind, I mean, certainly people of your stature, they kind of think that you’re infallible, and it can be intimidating.
Brett B.: 28:53 So, they may be a little bit nervous to give you information about what they’ve struggled with. So, through the, research, relate, and refrain model, you get to know more about them, they get to know a little bit more about you and the why of what you’re asking them to do, and then finally, you’re able to communicate that in a clear path.
Brett B.: 29:10 So, for me, communication is the lynch pin for any kind of long term behavior change. No matter what you’re trying to get people to accomplish. And, we’ve typically thought of communication in today’s society, there’s all this motivational guru, “Oh, it’s just all good habits and positive thinking.” It’s not.
Brett B.: 29:28 It’s the mucky situation of getting to understand a higher level of self awareness, dealing with your fears, dealing with these things. And that also realizing that not everybody is going to gravitate to the same kind of leadership or communication style.
Brett B.: 29:44 I mean, think about it, our culture today abhors conflict, right? Like, nobody ever loses, nobody ever does this, everything’s the greatest. And if it’s not the greatest, you’re not positive enough.
Brett B.: 29:55 I think that’s a dangerous place to be in. And, you’ve got to be able to figure out what makes people tic so you can really individualize that communication for them.
Dr. Gundry: 30:04 So, don’t I get a trophy for just showing up today, I mean, come on.
Brett B.: 30:08 Yeah, today you do because you were gracious enough to have me as your [crosstalk 00:30:14]. My athlete this morning does not. He showed up late and he got hell’s fury, rest assured.
Dr. Gundry: 30:19 Oh, okay very good. So, you know speaking of that, you’re probably in a great position to help us understand this. Are we over training our kids? Are we taking them to four different soccer, baseball, football, ballet classes every day of their lives? Have we stopped them from being kids?
Brett B.: 30:53 Yeah, I think it’s funny that you say that because early specialization has really created this dynamic where kids now, instead of them really being able to acquire this large cache of motor skills, have now kind of just gotten into these repetitive patterns that we know through the research, can lead to an increase in stress fractures and stress injuries.
Brett B.: 31:18 Not only that, you’re making them less resilient to changes in the environment because they’re learning less of these skills. For example, if you have an athlete that let’s say, you’re blessed with a very fast child and they’re in track and field. And, they run the 100 meter, and the 400 meter.
Brett B.: 31:34 Well, they’re not getting exposed to anything in the frontal or transverse plain. And that just means side to side or rotational. And, inherently, that builds up some movement deficiencies that can carry on later into life.
Brett B.: 31:47 You have to think about it … anyone listening … as hardware and software. We want to upgrade our children’s software as much as possible in their early years. And that means you expose them to different skill sets and different environments. Really a child should not specialize in one sport or one activity, until they’re 16, 17, somewhere around there.
Brett B.: 32:07 Until that age, make sure … and there’s research to support this as well, most gold medalists that have stayed healthy over the long term … and long term is relative in the Olympic athlete side of things … Were multi-sport athletes in their youth.
Brett B.: 32:22 Now, with the exception being some cases in China and Eastern Europe during the Soviet block. But even then, Eastern Europeans … these children were placed in sport models where they were doing gymnastics and a lot of different skills.
Brett B.: 32:38 So, I’m glad you brought that up, Dr Gundry, because it’s a very dangerous and … it’s a sad thing too. You kind of get sycophantic parents that just push their kids into one track, and it’s harmful over the long term.
Dr. Gundry: 32:51 So, how do we motivate parents to not do that?
Brett B.: 33:00 Golden question, right? And I think that too, is, so when you think of the term, buy-in, you know, buy-in to me, and why I titled the book that is, buy-in is trust and commitment, right? It’s not just obedience. Because, people can be obedient and carry out a task. That doesn’t necessarily mean that’s going to be done to a high level, right?
Brett B.: 33:19 The commitment side of things is where somebody carries out a task and they feel good about that. Well, as you know, most people only change their behavior if they feel like it was their own idea to begin with.
Brett B.: 33:30 One thing that was helpful on my end is, you know, I’ll have parents that will see me work with professional athletes. And they’ll say, “Well, how do I get this?” And, they’re surprised to learn, “Hey, this guy played three sports growing up. We’re not out here replicating a sport.” That’s what he does 18 weeks out of the year. When he’s training with me, we’re strengthening the muscles involved with sport, but also just strengthening the prime movers. The same one that Susie Q and John across the door would do.
Brett B.: 33:58 So, getting them to understand that your child is the ultimate investment. And, that while it may seem … and you brought it up perfectly early on, correlation and causation. It may seem like the two are not related at all, how can generalized training or playing multiple sports help them excel at one. Again, it’s just like diversifying your investments.
Brett B.: 34:21 That’s what I try to tell them. I go, “You think about it, you’d never put your eggs in one basket, you diversify.” It’s the same thing when you do it with your child’s long term athletic development. We’re diversifying their investments, they’re learning different skills, and by the way, an 11 year old is not half of a 22 year old.
Brett B.: 34:38 They’re a physiological changes that are going to occur in your child’s life and you need to make sure that you’re conscious of that.
Dr. Gundry: 34:44 You know, since you were talking about this, I was on the plane back from Atlanta last weekend. And, there was a movie that was about elite athletes. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, it was a documentary. And, it was what made these people tic.
Dr. Gundry: 35:01 One of the person’s was Jerry Rice, and the another one was Tom Brady. What was really interesting, Jerry Rice was saying, “Look, if you did now the performance trials for the NFL, like who can run the fastest 40 yard dash …” And they started showing movies of Tom Brady in those trials. And, he said, “And me …” He said, “We wouldn’t have even been drafted if that was the measurement of success.” And he says, “You know, I would look at these sprinters and say what does it matter how fast this guy can run 40 yards? How can he get to where the pass is going to be while avoiding four people?”
Dr. Gundry: 35:52 And he said, “We’ve got it all wrong on this performance business.” So what say you to that?
Brett B.: 36:00 I’d say that’s absolutely correct. You know, we have a little bit of a colloquialism amongst us professionals in the field where we say, “All these people love this, speed kills, speed kills.” We say, “Yeah, speed may kill but it’s strength that matters.”
Brett B.: 36:16 Here’s the thing, strength is the foundation of all movement, right? Just like gut health is the foundation of really wellness, you think of that, right? It’s our muscles that supports our joints. It’s our muscles that allow us to produce the force to get out of the chair, to go to the mailbox, to do these things.
Brett B.: 36:36 Well, here’s something that might interest those of you listening. When an athlete cuts, let’s say whether it’s Tom Brady, or Julian Edelman, or whoever. You know, I’m not a Patriots fan, I don’t want people to come at me for that. But, when they’re sprinting and they cut or change a direction, they can absorb up to six to nine times their body weight in that limb. Whether that’s the right leg or the left leg.
Brett B.: 37:00 Now, if their glute, if their hamstring, if their quad, if everything is not strong and really buttress, by strong tendons and tissues, that’s where non-contact injuries typically occur. So, you look at these things that absolute … in the 40 yard dash, Dr Gundry, and I’m sure you know this; was really created because back in the day, they thought the best way to see who the fastest person on the team was, was who can cover a punt the quickest. And, the average punt in the NFL was around 40 yards.
Brett B.: 37:34 So, the 40 yard dash-
Dr. Gundry: 37:35 So, that was it-
Brett B.: 37:36 Yeah, the 40 yard dash actually, you’re right, has a very low indication of ones long term success in … you know what screening mechanism actually has the highest predictive rate of long term success in the NFL? Their medical history. After that, their vertical jump, because that looks at lower body power, and lower body strength.
Brett B.: 37:54 So the bench press, silly. You know, that’s just a lot of tradition in there. 40 yard dash, makes a lot of money. Shoe companies and all this can then … you know, “Who ran the fastest?”
Brett B.: 38:04 But yeah, it’s really … you’ve got to focus on wholistic long term athletic development, and a robust skillset if you want to be able to build a strong foundation for the future.
Dr. Gundry: 38:15 Okay, I used to joke that I can’t learn much from a professional athlete. Kobe Bryant could never teach me how to dunk a basketball because I am height impaired. You know, I’m only 5’10. Now, yeah I know, I probably could eventually.
Dr. Gundry: 38:37 But, what can I take away from you making an elite athlete even better, and you know, bring it down to my performance level?
Brett B.: 38:50 I think the key thing, Dr Gundry, is having a plan. When these guys come and train with me, the first thing we do is sit down, and of course we go over goals and all those things. But, much like a chef and a recipe, and getting the right cooking temperature and ingredients; we really have to layout a plan and say, “Here’s where you’re at, here’s what you’re up against. Here is what is realistic.”
Brett B.: 39:10 Because, what most people don’t consider is the context and the logistics of their plan. They just look at, “Okay, here’s the exercises, I’m going to do this, I’m going to do this.” But they never think worse case scenario.
Brett B.: 39:22 For example, the holidays, people typically think, “Oh, I’m going to go on this radical diet and workout plan during the … ” No you’re not. You’re going to be stuck in an airport, you’re going to be around a bunch of family members arguing about politics. You’ll be lucky if you can get into the gym because it’s so hectic.
Brett B.: 39:38 So, maybe don’t plan your toughest change to take place during that time. You have to schedule out the entire calendar year and say, “All right, when do we know we have weddings? When do we have family trips? When am I up for my own budget meeting in my business?” Whatever that may be. Then, you have to strategically plan high and low stress periods where you can create a lifestyle, where you can say, “Okay, I know this time of year, I can probably hit this a little harder. This time of year, I still need to be consistent.” But everybody thinks they need to be just at the peak all the time.
Brett B.: 40:10 Right now, if you were to come watch me train my NFL athletes, it’s very early in the off season. Very simple but not easy workouts. I think today, we did a push up variation, some pull up variations, a squat. They do a lateral lunge and some med ball throws. But maybe five exercises and that’s it for today. Because, I’m more conscious of them coming in, and doing the simple thing savagely well. Than, them doing a whole litany of things and leaving in a pool of sweat, just for a temporary dose of Dopamine. It’s not going to work.
Dr. Gundry: 40:44 So that brings me to a quote that you use in your book, and I use it all the time. “When the student is ready, the teacher arrives.” So, how do you know you’re ready? Or, better yet, how do you get somebody ready for the teacher?
Brett B.: 41:02 Yeah, I think that you can go through these kind of stages of change model. I remember when we used to talk about this in school, the pre-contemplation stage, the commitment … I think the biggest thing is, sometimes people really aren’t ready until … and I know this is going to sound harsh, Dr Gundry, and forgive me … I think some people truly aren’t ready until they’ve failed.
Brett B.: 41:20 I think that again, I think we’ve glorified success in this country, and we haven’t really taken stock of what a powerful teacher and motivator failure is. You know, failure teaches you so much more about what you’re ready to take on, and what you’re ready to commit to, than any level of success ever will.
Brett B.: 41:38 So this … you know you’re ready when once you get to the point where you realize that the opposite of fear is not bravery, it’s a love of that learning process; of knowing that, “Yeah, I might fail, this might be a struggle. But really, talent needs trauma.” You have to have these troubles. These are the things that help you lead to understanding who you are, what you want. They give you clarity.
Brett B.: 42:02 I think … I mean, how many times, Dr Gundry, in your career, have you kind of re-calibrated after maybe a simple mistake. It could’ve been something silly. But, you realized that you just weren’t really clear enough on where you wanted to go with a certain message, or a certain initiative. And that little slip up brought you right back, laser focused, and better than ever. Has that ever happened to you?
Dr. Gundry: 42:20 No, never, I don’t know what you’re talking about. No, you’re absolutely true. What’s the expression? “A setback is just the start of a comeback.”
Brett B.: 42:32 Absolutely.
Dr. Gundry: 42:33 I think that’s very true. Edison was always fond of saying, “Genius is one percent inspiration and 99% perspiration.”
Brett B.: 42:45 Love that.
Dr. Gundry: 42:45 And I think that’s very true. In research, which I’ve done all my life. You know, in research, you’re trying to prove your hypothesis wrong. You’re trying to prove yourself wrong. And, unfortunately, most of the time, you prove yourself wrong.
Dr. Gundry: 43:00 So, that’s what we all have to be ready to fail at all of this, it’s very true-
Brett B.: 43:09 Absolutely, I’m glad you brought that up because it just is … you know, if there were five reasons people really don’t want to change. And, you think about, “Well, they don’t believe that it’s truly needed. They don’t think they need to change.” And I know my father fell into that category for a while.
Brett B.: 43:24 None of my degrees, none of the people that I’ve worked with, none of the things I’ve done … right, it’s that old adage, “The expert is always out of town.” My dad’s never going to listen to me with that stuff. Or, they don’t believe it’s cost effective. “Well, I don’t want to join a gym. And, I can’t afford a home gym.” Or, “I can’t do this.” They feel threatened or they feel uncertain. Either about their own abilities or maybe even perhaps about the future in general. And that kind of fear just kind of paralyzes them, for lack of a better term.
Brett B.: 43:52 They think it’s too much work. Or, to your point, they just fear starting over. But that’s the point, prove your hypothesis wrong, take a swing, come back with renewed clarity, and hopefully an emboldened sense of purpose, and get back on to something that’s more sustainable and enjoyable.
Dr. Gundry: 44:10 Yeah, my wife who was a great runner, made me take up running. And, as I was learning running, I was always cognizant of the saying runners have, “The hardest step in running is the step out the front door.”
Dr. Gundry: 44:30 She also taught me that for the first eight minutes, I will absolutely hate every step, I will curse, I will say, “Why the heck am I doing this?” And then around about 10 minutes, of course, the Endorphins hit in and you go, “Hey, you know, this is okay.”
Dr. Gundry: 44:50 But, if I didn’t have my coach, my wife, teaching me that, “You’re not going to really enjoy this …” I have shin splints and you know, “You’re not going to enjoy this for a while but just show up, and it’ll be okay.” And I eventually really enjoyed running. I still jog my dogs, they enjoy it.
Dr. Gundry: 45:13 So, but you’re right. You’ve got to be ready just to fail and it’ll be okay.
Brett B.: 45:19 Yeah.
Dr. Gundry: 45:20 All right, so we’ve been kind of talking around diet. How does diet fit in your own coaching and performance work?
Brett B.: 45:28 Yeah, so I integrate my practice in with registered Dieticians in the area. So, I try to always make sure that I stay within my scope of practice. So I’ll be involved in those discussions, it’s certainly stuff that I’ve studied and I’ve stayed up on. But, we make sure that we surround our athletes or our clients … because when I say athletes again, I’m referring to the executive athlete that may work for a large corporation, or a professional athlete.
Brett B.: 45:54 We make sure that everybody’s locked in and whether that’s them going through some unique blood testing or them getting on … excuse me … any kind of specified plan that’s unique to their needs. And then really integrating that with what I’m doing from an exercise standpoint.
Brett B.: 46:10 So, really that information is shared, a central hub or database. You have weekly meetings with their support system. Whether that’s physical therapy, whether that’s the dietician, and myself. And we really make sure that we have this kind of open sharing of knowing where they’re at with their fueling, is it appropriate? What kind of symptoms if any, are they experiencing? How does that coincide with their training? And we try to take as integrated approach as possible.
Dr. Gundry: 46:37 You’ve got a starting nutrition tip that you can share with our listeners?
Brett B.: 46:42 Oh, it would bore them to death, Dr Gundry. It’s simply, drink more water. I just think that I see so much … even a two percent body … or weight loss in fluids can lead to severe decrements of performance. And again, performance is relative. For my athletes, that might be their vertical jump or power output.
Brett B.: 47:02 For the average folks out there, that could be an increase in joint pain, right? We need to be hydrated. Our muscles are mostly made of water. So, I think drink more water is the simple thing. I know it bores people to death and they probably hope for something more. But, it’s a recurring issue.
Dr. Gundry: 47:20 All right, all right. So, when you set out to write the book, was it number one, hard? Number two, what kept you focused on actually getting this done?
Brett B.: 47:34 Yeah, absolutely it was terrifying. As you well know, you said you had written two books?
Dr. Gundry: 47:38 Actually five now.
Brett B.: 47:40 Oh wow. I know my wife has two of them and she was really excited. But yeah, absolutely and so, for me it was terrifying just … because I’m somebody that very much treasures interpersonal communication. The face to face, the interaction. Sitting down and being non-kinetic is very difficult for me. So, just keeping my butt in the chair alone was difficult.
Brett B.: 48:03 But I knew … listen, I had given presentations to the effect of some of the themes of that book. And, I knew the way it was resonating with audiences, it needed to be in a more formal, focused, format. People needed a resource.
Brett B.: 48:17 We live in this technology laden age where we’re more connected than ever. But we’re not … very still that connection. Like I said earlier, it made me kind of upset, and I’ll use that term purposefully, that people try to talk to communication as this warm, fuzzy, sing-songy feeling. When in reality, some of this is just understanding the role of conflict, and the necessity of conflict, and self-awareness.
Brett B.: 48:41 And, being able to understand why we feel certain ways that we do and acknowledging that. In the book, I reference the term, “Athlete,” A lot. But the book’s message is for anybody that deals with people.
Brett B.: 48:52 I think another thing, selfishly that drove me to it. Is, that I have five publishers tell me verbatim, “Nobody will care about a book on communication from a strength and conditioning coach.” And it was interesting because I learned a lot of what they thought of my field.
Brett B.: 49:06 They thought of us as kind of muscle bound, you know, idiots that run around and yell at people. When in reality, we have to work with some of the highest performing folks in the world. You’re in ego filled dynamic environments where you have to learn these pieces.
Brett B.: 49:21 So, when the book came out number one in sports coaching, and number eight in business and mentorship, it was kind of a little bit of a … you know, I’m not a prideful person, but it just made me feel like, “Okay, we did this and hopefully it made a difference. And let’s get the message out there.”
Brett B.: 49:36 Then also, just knowing that again, it is a timeless problem, Dr Gundry. How many times in your own practice do you see well-intentioned people, or well-intentioned even, advice get lost amongst poor communication. Or, an inability to relate, an inability to see the big picture. So to me, I think we can always get better at communication.
Brett B.: 50:01 I wrote that book, I’m still miserable at it, if you ask my wife. But that’s the fun, you’re a lifelong student.
Dr. Gundry: 50:08 Yeah. So the question is, have you gone to Minneapolis, and taken this book to that hospital and found that nurse? That’s what I want to know.
Brett B.: 50:18 Yeah, not yet but believe me it’s coming, it’s coming. So, I’ve been blessed … I think I just … last week, I touched down on my 46th country speaking on the book and doing those things. And, I had an opportunity to speak at Microsoft and Facebook.
Brett B.: 50:32 But that hospital, not yet, but I’m going to get it done. Even if I have to just go in there and be like, “Hi, I’m here to … I send a helpful message-”
Dr. Gundry: 50:39 “I’ve got a gift for you. I’m back.”
Brett B.: 50:44 How about you? I have to ask you, what’s your advice, from somebody that has written almost five books now, what helps you stay focused? Because, I’d love to learn from that experience of your own?
Dr. Gundry: 50:53 Well, believe it or not, I hate to write. It’s hilarious, surgeons in general … you decide to be a surgeon or an internist, internists like to write 10 page histories in physicals. And, surgeons actually write, “Patient present.” And you know, “Here’s the plan and let me go operate on him.” It’s kind of a joke, but it’s true.
Dr. Gundry: 51:19 I’ve been a speaker all my life. I was state debate champion twice in Nebraska. And, original oratory champion in Yale Debate Team. So, I love to talk. So, I said, “I’m going to force my talk onto a page.” I don’t even like typing. But, I talk through … and people … I think one of the reasons I’ve been successful is, people can pick up any one of my books and it’s like I’m sitting there talking with them.
Brett B.: 51:52 Yeah, that’s a great gift.
Dr. Gundry: 51:54 So, and I don’t schedule a time to write. I know a lot of people are good-
Brett B.: 51:59 I’m the same way.
Dr. Gundry: 51:59 Yeah, I may end up writing at two O’clock in the morning. And-
Brett B.: 52:04 Yeah, all those habits never worked for me. I can certainly relate to that.
Dr. Gundry: 52:07 Yeah, won’t work. Okay, I told you when we started we’re going to have an audience question before we sign off. So, today’s audience question comes from Abby. Abby asks, “If my options for milk are organic, grass-fed, or A2 that’s not organic or grass-fed. Which is the healthier option for my kids?”
Dr. Gundry: 52:28 I talk a lot about this in the upcoming book, The Longevity Paradox. Your kids are not baby cows. They are not cows. Cows milk, goat’s milk, sheep’s milk, buffalo milk, is designed to make these animals grow rapidly. Because, predation is what kills these animals out in the wild.
Dr. Gundry: 52:52 So, the milk is loaded with what’s called, Insulin like growth factor, which is a growth hormone. And, it’s designed to make cows grow quickly. Your child is not a baby cow. Please, please, please, one of the things to help them the most, is do not give them another animal’s milk.
Dr. Gundry: 53:14 I mean, if you think about it. This is not a race to get big. So, please don’t give your children milk. They do not need the Calcium in milk for strong bones. Two thirds of the world cannot drink milk. And, they don’t have a problem with Osteoporosis, we do.
Dr. Gundry: 53:34 So, don’t drink milk. Sorry, I grew up in Omaha, and Milwaukee, Wisconsin and milk is king, I mean it really is. All right, so that’s my editorial comment for the day. Take it with what you will.
Dr. Gundry: 53:50 All right, so Brett, thanks so much for coming on the show today-
Brett B.: 53:55 Thanks for having me-
Dr. Gundry: 53:55 A fellow corn husker. And, now an Atlanta guy, this is great. Where can our listeners learn about you and your work? And, where do we find the book?
Brett B.: 54:06 Sure, the book’s available worldwide on Amazon. So, if you just type in, Conscious Coaching, or my name, Brett Bartholomew, it will come up on Amazon. Kindle, Hard copy, Audible, all those kinds of things.
Brett B.: 54:18 If you’re the type that would like to sample a free chapter, just go to, ConsciousCoachingBook.com. Very easy, you’ll see some of the testimonials and insights, and what the book is, what the book isn’t, all those things.
Brett B.: 54:29 And simply put, if you’re trying to follow me, or keep up with my work, ArtOfCoaching.com is the easiest. Again, that’s ArtOfCoaching.com. I’m also very active on Instagram, @coach_BrettB. So, I appreciate your time as well.
Dr. Gundry: 54:45 All right, well good luck and I can’t wait to hear when you’ve been to your 70th country. But, it’s got to include Minneapolis.
Brett B.: 54:54 No doubt, no doubt. Thanks Dr Gundry.
Dr. Gundry: 54:56 All right, thanks for being on the show. So, that’s it for today, thank you for joining me on the Dr Gundry podcast. And, we’ll be back next week because I’m Dr Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you.
Dr. Gundry: 55:10 Exciting news my friends, my new book, The Longevity Paradox is out now. Like the Planet Paradox, this will be a game changer in helping you live a long, vital life. So pick up your copy now at your local bookstore, Barnes and Noble, or Amazon. Or, my audio book which I actually recorded this time. And, make sure you tell your friends and family about it.
Dr. Gundry: 55:35 So, for more information about this week’s episode, please take a look at my show notes below and on Dr Gundry.com. In the show notes, you’ll also find a survey, and I’d love to find out more about you. Please take a few minutes to fill it out so I can do my best to provide information you’re looking for.
Dr. Gundry: 55:54 Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the Dr Gundry podcast. Check back next week for another exciting episode. And, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review to stay up to date with the latest episodes. Head to Dr Gundry.com for show notes and more information. Until next time, I’m Dr Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you.