Speaker 1 (00:00:00):
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast, the weekly podcast where Dr. G gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life.
Dr. Gundry (00:00:14):
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Well, if you’ve been following the Plant Paradox program for a while now, there’s a good chance you’ve been spending more and more time in your kitchen. And of course, that’s great because the truth is it’s nearly impossible to find healthy lectin-free meals dining out or ordering from your favorite restaurants. So even the thought of healthy options, such as salad, soups, or veggie dishes usually contain hidden dangerous ingredients like omega-6 oils or lectin bomb ingredients.
Dr. Gundry (00:00:49):
And while you might occasionally come across a truly lectin-free option, cooking at home is your best tool for finding success with my program. And my guest today knows just what I’m talking about. In a moment, I’ll speak with Jessie AKA The Sensitive Vegan. After struggling with some pretty serious health issues, Jesse has been able to successfully turn his health around, for the most part, by following my Plant Paradox program.
Dr. Gundry (00:01:23):
He now has his very own lectin-free cooking channel on YouTube, which is how I discovered him, where he shares his creative recipes and a step-by-step easy to follow in, me I say, often very humorous manner. Today’s episode, Jesse will share his impressive journey to health, tips for vegans on the Plant Paradox program, and professional cooking advice to help you cook your way to better health. We’ve got a lot of exciting things in store for you today on today’s episode, so stay tuned. We’ll be right back.
Dr. Gundry (00:02:01):
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Dr. Gundry (00:02:34):
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Dr. Gundry (00:03:07):
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Dr. Gundry (00:03:30):
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Dr. Gundry (00:04:02):
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Dr. Gundry (00:04:36):
Jesse, it’s great to have you on this show you Sensitive Vegan you.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:04:41):
Thank you. It’s good to meet you.
Dr. Gundry (00:04:43):
Nice to have you here. Why don’t we start… give everybody listening a little bit of your health background and health journey. What was going on in your life?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:04:58):
So I considered myself a lactose ovo vegetarian for the longest time, I guess, since 2010. I don’t know how long that is. But I made the conversion to veganism and I was really into the weightlifting and working out all the time. And I just found after a while on the diet that I was on, I started experiencing body pain. First it was my right shoulder, and I thought, “Oh yeah, I overdid it at the gym lifting. Too much weights, trying to show off.”
The Sensitive Vegan (00:05:29):
And within a couple of weeks, the left shoulder got sore. And then it moved to my right knee and then my left knee. And obviously, I had no idea what was going on. And I saw all the doctors and specialists, I checked with natural paths, Chinese medicine, and I just had no assistance whatsoever for, I guess, looking at about three years. And I probably lost over 40 pounds. I became pretty immobile and I just didn’t have any answers.
Dr. Gundry (00:06:05):
That’s not good.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:06:08):
Yeah, it’s-
Dr. Gundry (00:06:10):
And this is a very common experience, when you were seeing all the specialists, the natural paths, I mean, what were they telling you? What was the diagnosis? Did they want you to go on immunosuppressive meds, blah, blah, blah?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:06:27):
It was so frustrating. It was something different with each one. Obviously now I know how sensitive I am to these different compounds, and corn starch being one of them. So I’d go see the natural path and they go, “You’ve got some flare ups around your body. We are not sure what’s going to really cause it, but let’s get you on some turmeric,” or whatever it is that they use to quell that sensitivity. And it’s in a capsule made of corn starch. So I’m popping these every day and not getting better.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:07:05):
And then with the doctors, they wanted to rule out bone cancer. So I got all these expensive tests done and all the time between visits, talk about maybe six months Canadian medical system waiting between visits, and just really wasted time as far as I was concerned because I was in pain this whole time and I was complaining about what I was experiencing. It felt like injuries all over my body and I was just seeking help. And all the testing that I was getting, all the elaborate sort of stuff that they were doing, wasn’t really helping.
Dr. Gundry (00:07:45):
Now you’ve referred to yourself as a recovering soy boy, I love that. What was your diet like back then?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:07:55):
Okay, so it was awesome. I loved my diet back then. I would get up in the morning, before I go to work, I’d make myself a six shot espresso, just put that on the side and I get some breakfast tacos going. They’d have chipotle, homemade habanero sauce, just a mix of just non pressure cooked beans and the hottest peppers I could get with a lot of vegetable fats too. And it was awesome.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:08:26):
I mean, I probably had breath breakfast tacos for breakfast, lunch, then I’d come home and make a white rice stir fry sort of thing. And it tasted really good. It was fun to eat that much. I was also the kind of person I would eat all through the night before I ended up listening to you or reading your books. I’d have a banana next to the bed and I would eat 24 hours. As far as I was concerned, I’d wake up every couple hours and eat again trying to put on the pounds. And it wasn’t good for my stomach for starters. So while I had all these flare ups around my body and sore everything, I also had really a lot of stomach aches and a lot of soreness down there.
Dr. Gundry (00:09:15):
All right. So you’re eating 24 hours a day, you’re hurt all over, the Canadian healthcare system has been failing you and you’re going six months between appointments and not getting anywhere. So how did you come across the Plant Paradox?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:09:34):
Well, a really nice guy in a health food store told me about Plant Paradox, “Have you read the Plant Paradox?” And I immediately dismissed it because I’d heard so many things that I was like, “Oh, that’s a diet thing. No, no, no. I’m vegan, I have the perfect diet. You can’t fix my diet. So it’s definitely not that, it’s something else.” I was pretty desperate at that point, so in any event I picked up the book and I think even it was on audible and I just forwarded to the diet part because I really wanted to know what I had to change. Within a week, the pain was gone and I could feel that my body was actually healing. So I was sold right there.
Dr. Gundry (00:10:24):
Uh-huh (affirmative). All right. Yeah, you bring up an interesting story and I talk about in one of my books, Deepak Chopra’s representative for Japan is a young woman who had severe rheumatoid arthritis, had two hip replacements in her 20s, had a knee replacement and was basically bedridden. And a friend from Canada said, “I want to send you the Plant Paradox and try it.” It’s because whatever she was literally doing, Ayurvedic brown rice soy diet, and literally within weeks and her pain went away. And she actually, a few years ago, flewed to Palm Springs to meet me and thanked me. Walked in, her rheumatoid arthritis is gone. And so you’re telling me a thank you for saying that story because you it’s hard to believe, but it does happen.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:11:38):
Yeah. It’s tricky because of course I saw a rheumatologist and then you get tested for these things and they’re like, “No, there’s no arthritis. There is some inflammation, but yeah.” So frustrating until you actually get on the diet.
Dr. Gundry (00:11:56):
So did you go cold turkey? Did you dive right in? I mean, obviously I have vegan options for every one of my recipes. Or did you just gradually do it? Or what did you do?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:12:11):
So I jumped right in because I was inadvertently already doing one of your, I guess, the five day vegan cleanse up that was extending about a month. I was just doing broth and I had legumes in there. That was the bad part. But since I was already vegan, so it wasn’t tough to just introduce these things like sweet potatoes and yuca and stuff like that that I knew were okay according to your theory. And it worked right away, so I dove right in.
Dr. Gundry (00:12:50):
Okay. So you’ve done in the way the hard part, you were a vegan already. Let’s talk about your experience being a vegan on this program. So let’s back up, you were a lacto-ovo vegetarian, why did you make the jump to vegan?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:13:12):
I’m not sure whether it was influences like maybe dating vegan girls. I don’t know whether it was that one too many documentaries that I watched like I think it is for a lot of people and it’s just like, “Okay, I can do this. I know I can do this.”
Dr. Gundry (00:13:30):
Probably the first one was more important, you were dating a vegan girl or something like that.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:13:36):
Yeah, I think that rubs off on a few people.
Dr. Gundry (00:13:42):
So this wasn’t, I mean, you want to save the planet or not destroying animals, but it just seemed like a good idea?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:13:55):
All of the above. Once you’re interested, like I’ve heard this is good for health, and then you hear some of the arguments and you see some of the nasty stuff that happens with the factory farming and you’re like, “I don’t want to support this.” So I think that’s a positive thing.
Dr. Gundry (00:14:10):
Okay. So what was the biggest struggle about being a vegan on the Plant Paradox program or what is continuing to be the biggest struggle?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:14:22):
Yeah, absolutely the two hardest things is vegan food, so all the pre-packaged vegan food products that you have in the grocery store that looks so good and tastes so good are so not good for you because it’s all the same, I don’t know, three ingredients. And it’s the same thing once it gets in you, it’s just going to cause the inflammation and it’s just not healthy.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:14:48):
You have that plus the vegan restaurants that you want to go to, and there’s absolutely nothing you can order there. So you just have to go for the salad at a restaurant, maybe you can go, “Okay, can I have the fries today? It’s been like a month since I’ve had night shades, so I think I’m going to try the fries and then I’ll be taking a gamble with the Ketchup.” And so the trickiest part of being a vegan is just the vegan food is not compatible with the diet, which is why I came up with my own recipes.
Dr. Gundry (00:15:19):
Yeah. I have a friend in the Palm Springs area who has some vegan restaurants and she’s wonderful and I adore her and there’s probably only two things in it that I can eat in her restaurants. And she actually asked me to do a foreword for her cookbook, and I go, “Well, I adore and good for you, but I can’t even eat in your restaurant.”
Dr. Gundry (00:15:50):
So it’s very frustrating. And as I’ve said on my podcast and I’ve written about, I take care of a large number of vegans and vegetarians because of my experience at Loma Linda, which is a vegetarian and vegan Adventist health system. And quite frankly, some of the vegans when I first meet them are some of my sickest people. They are rampant with auto immune diseases. And like your experience, when I take away so many of their almost sacred foods, it’s when they start getting better.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:16:36):
It’s funny you talk about sacred foods because when I started publishing my recipes, I started a column in the local newspaper and I was writing about the diet and I was publishing a new recipe every week, I think, and some of the biggest critics I had were vegans. And it’s vegan food that I’m producing here. Some of them even suggesting that the diet was dangerous and I should have warnings and I’m like, “I don’t need warnings for healthy food.”
The Sensitive Vegan (00:17:09):
So it’s just funny because vegan seem to have these sacred foods or sacred food product where you tell them it’s not exactly as healthy as they thought, and they became quite angry about it. But with you, I’d find the two biggest arguments for veganism with Plant Paradox is the IGF-1 levels that you can control by limiting or just outright getting rid of meat products and also just that inadvertent grains that you’re going to ingest if you eat animal products. And getting rid of those things is a huge health benefit. So it’s funny that vegans tend to be so critical of the Plant Paradox diet to begin with.
Dr. Gundry (00:17:57):
Yeah. I mean, I certainly have my vegan critics, but recently we had actually one of my formerly biggest critics on our podcast, Joel Fuhrman, who I’m actually a big fan of, and got him to admit that he pressure cooks his beans. And I went, “Well, why aren’t you telling people about that?” Because last week I had beans twice and they were pressure cooked and I’m not anti legumes, you just got to treat them with respect.
Dr. Gundry (00:18:48):
So it is funny people saying I’m anti bean. Well, no, I’m not. I’m anti the bean trying to kill me. And as long as I can defuse, it’s a great potential part of the diet. Although I do have a few people that even pressure cook beans, it gets them. They can absolutely tell. But you brought up a very interesting point and I don’t want to take away from your time, but your point is very well taken. I think we miss, and vegans maybe know this, so when we feed animals, corn, and soybeans or other grains, you are what you eat, but you are what the thing you’re eating.
Dr. Gundry (00:19:41):
And years ago, when I first started doing this, I really didn’t want to believe that until I had some people with autoimmune diseases where their final straw that solved their autoimmune problem was getting rid of organic chicken in their diet. And they didn’t realize that organic chickens were fed organic corn and soybeans. And when we took those healthy organic chickens away from them, that’s when things resolved.
Dr. Gundry (00:20:20):
And recently we had one of my followers because of a nutritionist telling her that she really needed to get more animal protein in her diet, she contacted a farmer and started eating what they thought was grass fed beef and pastured chicken. And the more she added this to her diet, the more pain, just like yourself, she began experiencing, more joint pain, more headaches. And she got so desperate, she finally contacted me and said, “I don’t get it. I’m doing everything right.” And I said, “So what’s your farmer feeding his animals?” And she said, “Well, they’re grass fed.” And I said, “Are you sure?”
Dr. Gundry (00:21:12):
So she called him up. He said, “Well, we have to supplement their diet.” And she said, “Well, what are you supplementing with?” “Well, corn and soybeans and grains.” And she said, “But wait a minute, you said that they were grass fed.” He said, “Oh, we have to give them stuff.” And I said, “Well, there you go.”
The Sensitive Vegan (00:21:34):
They all say that.
Dr. Gundry (00:21:35):
Yeah. And she, in five days, 70% of her pain was gone when she stopped eating that healthy food. So your point is very well taken.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:21:49):
And to be honest, I tried the egg thing myself. You get pretty desperate. Even on vegan diet, you get pretty desperate to try something else when things just aren’t working for you. And I tried the egg thing. And within 30 days of it, I had this swollen left knee for no reason. And it’s just the egg, so I just cut it out. And of course, they’re supplementing your diet with these things.
Dr. Gundry (00:22:14):
All right. So how did you come up with your YouTube channel? How did you get so funny? Are you a natural comedian? Are you a performer?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:22:25):
Well, thanks for saying that. So I think what I do is I want to bring value to people, I want to bring these recipes, but I want it to be fun. So, number one, I’m always going to put the joke ahead of even the product. So it’s going to be goofy all the time, I’m going to be an idiot, I’m going to say stupid stuff, I’m going to be arguing with my wife. And that’s all going in the videos.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:22:56):
Number one, it has to be entertaining because there’s too many cooking shows out there where you’re just watching the person, maybe the overhead of the stirring, the thing in there, and it’s just so boring. There’s so much of it out there. So I want to do something that’s very different. And I’m glad that you agree that I’m funny. I hope your viewers will think so when you check out my videos.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:23:19):
And the point is that I want to bring value to people that are going through or have gone through the same thing that I did. And it’s so difficult when you start to limit what you can actually eat. And if you’re passionate about food like I am, I don’t want to not have pizza. I want to have lasagna, I want to have spring rolls, I want flatbread, and I want cheese and I want it to melt. The cheese has to be vegan and it has to melt. And I just want to experience all those things just like everyone else. So that’s where I’m coming from with my YouTube.
Dr. Gundry (00:23:58):
All right. So how do you get melting vegan cheese? Come on, help us out here. I mean, do we have to go to your YouTube video right now or can you give us a tip?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:24:08):
Well, I think it’s only fair that you go to my YouTube, maybe just watch this first. But it’s only a few ingredients. My main cheese that I use is a coconut mozzarella and it does melt. I have a few thickening agents that I use, arrowroot powder, tapioca, agar. And these are things that most people aren’t familiar with. Mostly people are going to go to cornstarch or what they’re used to, or flour. And there’s so many other options out there that are so much better for your health.
Dr. Gundry (00:24:41):
Do you have any go-to foods? Years ago when I started studying people’s food habits, people in general, actually have five main dishes or main meals that they just repeat over and over and over again. And so you got any go-to things that you just repeat all the time?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:25:10):
Yeah, that’s really true. I’d have to say that cassava flour flatbread is my go-to. Even when I’m not planning that that’s going to be breakfast or lunch, it just is. And when you have some spread, if you check out my YouTube, I can show you a Brazil nut sour cream, a vegan sour cream with Brazil nuts that you can spread on there, or maybe just do the olive oil and balsamic vinegar. And it’s so good and it’s so easy that I eat every day.
Dr. Gundry (00:25:49):
Wow. Now you’re making me hungry? We’re going pause here. We’ll be right back. I’m going to go to his YouTube channel, I’m going to find out I make it. Oh, okay, we’re back. No.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:26:00):
Oh thanks, there we go.
Dr. Gundry (00:26:03):
We’re just joking. All right. Everybody talks about B12 and vegans. What’s that to you?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:26:10):
Okay. So I supplement that stuff. With Plant Paradox, if you are as sensitive as I am, what you want to do is get the capsule and open it up into some cranberry juice, and don’t just take the contents, not the capsule, and I supplement it. It’s that simple. I think there’s a little bit in mushrooms.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:26:35):
And to be perfectly honest, some of your past guests, including you, talk about having a biodiversity in your gut with the microbiome and every now and again, I’ll do the shellfish thing, I’ll do the halibut thing just to make sure that I’m healthy in my stomach. I don’t want to be running into IBS because there’s only one type of bacteria in there, or it’s just not working for me. So yes, I do cheat on veganism every now and again, and I’m totally comfortable.
Dr. Gundry (00:27:12):
Uh-huh (affirmative), okay. That was going to be my next question. We measure what’s called the omega-3 index in our patients, which basically looks at two months fish oil in your system. And there, of course, now plenty of vegan sources for DHA. And the vast majority of vegans that I see early on are very, very deficient in DHA and EPA. And they used to drink flaxseed oil like, I don’t know, champagne, and they still have no DHA and EPA because they just don’t convert it into long chain fatty acids. Do you take vegan DHA or where do you get your long chain omega-3 fats?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:28:13):
I’m not that skilled in this one. Let’s see, avocados, olive oil, MCT oil, nuts. Am I hitting anything there?
Dr. Gundry (00:28:24):
No, there’s no omega-3 fats in there.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:28:28):
Wow. I don’t know. It just works out for me. Maybe is it the piece of halibut that I eat everyday?
Dr. Gundry (00:28:35):
Yes. Probably yes, it’s the piece of halibut that you eat. Shellfish are actually very rich in those things. And [crosstalk 00:28:40]-
The Sensitive Vegan (00:28:40):
Yeah, I do the scallop thing.
Dr. Gundry (00:28:43):
Yeah, you could have Prince Edward Island mussels from time to time.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:28:48):
From time to time, I could.
Dr. Gundry (00:28:52):
From time to time. All right. If you’ve read any of my Paradox books, I’m a big proponent of time controlled eating, or five day vegan fasting to help give your mitochondria the time they need to repair and in turn, give you the energy you need. And I’ve got a great insider tip to help you succeed at shortening your eating window, electrolytes.
Dr. Gundry (00:29:15):
Unfortunately, a lot of people that fast forget about these essential nutrients, which can lead to feeling tired, crampy, and weak. This usually gets blamed on lack of food. And that’s certainly part of it, but it shouldn’t cause dizziness, weakness, fatigue, or cramps. These fasting related symptoms are usually due to one of two reasons. One, low blood sugar, hypoglycemia. Two, inadequate electrolytes. Cause number one is mostly a problem for type 1 or type 2 diabetics on blood sugar lowering drugs. That’s why diabetics shouldn’t fast without medical supervision.
Dr. Gundry (00:29:52):
But reason number two, low electrolytes, can affect anyone who fast. Fortunately, getting electrolytes from a fasting friendly product like LMNT Recharge can make fasting much easier. Why do you need electrolytes during a fast? For one, your dietary intake is nil. Food is your best source of electrolytes like potassium and magnesium and salted food is your best source of sodium. Plus you excrete more sodium in a fasted state. This is called the natural recess of fasting, is something clinicians, including myself, monitor when using fasting as therapy with patients.
Dr. Gundry (00:30:30):
To recap, fewer electrolytes come in during a fast and more go out. The electrolyte mix I recommend for fasting is called Drink LMNT. LMNT Recharge is a tasty electrolyte drink mix that won’t break a fast and it comes in eight flavors, including the newest watermelon salt, to make your fast more interesting. Unlike other electrolyte products, LMNT doesn’t contain sugar or artificial junk.
Dr. Gundry (00:30:59):
I partnered with LMNT to bring a very special offer to members of our community. Just go to drinklmnt.com/gundry and use promo code GUNDRY to get your free LMNT sample pack. You only cover the cost of shipping, which is five bucks for US customers. You can try LMNT risk-free. They offer a no questions asked refund policy. If you don’t love it for any reason, you don’t even have to send it back.
Dr. Gundry (00:31:32):
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Dr. Gundry (00:32:35):
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Dr. Gundry (00:34:08):
So let’s get to your YouTube channel. What was your inspiration for even starting it? Like I say, you’re great at it. And I hope when people leave this podcast, they jump to your YouTube channel and get as entertained as I am watching it. So what started it?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:34:32):
Well, I wanted a side project. I just wanted something extra to work on. And to be honest, what word can I use? I was depressed and disappointed, angry that everybody else got to eat good food and I didn’t. So I wanted to experiment my background, I worked as a chef, I came up with features for the menu. It’s something that I did regularly, and I missed that about it. So being able to share those ideas and come up with stuff.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:35:06):
And really, I want people to be jealous of the vegan Plant Paradox, rather than being jealous of, “Oh, you get to eat pizza.” Maybe you walk by at work and somebody’s got a pizza or a pizza pop or something like that in a microwave, it smells so good. I want that. Or you walk by a McDonald’s or something and they’ve got the exhaust, so you can smell the French fries. I want to experience something just as good or not better than everyone else.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:35:39):
So I think that’s where it comes from. And just the ability to… When I started, I didn’t know how it would go, I didn’t even know how I’d be on camera. But when I started to hear from people who thank you for creating this, for sharing this, I’ve cooked it for my family, my kids, they can’t eat anything. And hearing that from the community was amazing to me. So being able to make a difference and actually provide that value is, I think, where it comes from.
Dr. Gundry (00:36:11):
You call yourself The Sensitive Vegan, and I just thought you were a sensitive individual. But food sensitivities are very, very real. They are not in people’s heads. I can assure our listeners that. And you just mentioned that a lot of people watch your videos and then write you and say, “Thanks for doing this because my kid can’t eat anything.” Are you finding there’s this vast community out there that’s underserved, or maybe the better word is, not believed in terms of their sensitivities to foods?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:37:00):
Not believed, I would say. And so tricky because people will get put on, I think, the wrong path. So I’m just going through your new book, The Energy Paradox, and you break down some of the myths about what people think they’re dealing with. And I think it’s adrenal fatigue. I think it’s this. And they’ll go to the doctor with that. And now in their head, they’re part of the adrenal fatigue group. If you’re that, you’re only going to reach out for resources that are that.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:37:38):
Coming to learn more about this, I think it’s more for everyone, I think it’s the lectin thing. I really do. So people are going to come from different schools of thought for what they’re looking for, and it’s difficult to reach everyone because they all have a different idea of what they think is wrong. And there’s so few resources out there. So that’s, I think what’s difficult that if you… I mean, I do not have the biggest YouTube following, I don’t have the biggest Instagram following if you look, and it’s really difficult to try to connect with these people, because I don’t think they even know what the problem is.
Dr. Gundry (00:38:21):
Well, we’re going to try and change that. Like I say, good for you, you are entertaining. Well, so I didn’t actually realize that you were a chef. What’s your creative process? And you make a coconut bacon. Okay, how the heck do you make bacon out of coconut? Because everybody has to have bacon. I mean, come on, be honest.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:38:54):
With that one, I can’t take credit. A vegan chef knows that that one is in the community, it’s swirling around there. There’s a few variations of it. It’s something I had to share on the channel because I want to be the vegan chef that is for everyone. I’m the people’s vegan basically. And I don’t want people to feel like, “Oh, it’s one of those vegan channels.” Some of those vegans be very judgmental. I don’t really like that attitude. I don’t want to be judged or feel critical.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:39:25):
So they shy away from the vegan cooking channels and I just want to be the one that can reach everyone. There’s no judgment here and my food is for everyone. As far as my creative process, I don’t know, I’m a chef. I pay attention to when I eat something or when I see something new, I wonder how they make that. I spend the whole day in the kitchen. I jus leave to eat or lay down, have a nap, and I’m back in the kitchen. So I’m always dealing with this stuff.
Dr. Gundry (00:39:58):
Well, good for you. One of my sayings is, I want you to eat food you love, but food that loves you back. And it sounds like that’s really your mantra. Because I’ve found that if people like what they’re eating, they’re more likely to stick with this. And certainly, my experience as a professor at Loma Linda for many, many years, the Adventists we’re experts at making mystery meats out of plants that actually acted as if you were eating animal based meats.
Dr. Gundry (00:40:46):
And in fact, one of my funniest stories, my late partner, Leonard Bailey, who was chairman of the department of surgery, we had a Christmas party every year at a local hotel, and it was in general, all vegetarian food. And the hospital was very good at making fake shrimp out of a fake shrimp. And so we were at this party and he comes back from the buffet table and he’s got this big pile of shrimp, and he turns to his wife, he says, “Gosh,” and he says, “The chefs are getting better and better at this. These are the best fake shrimp I’ve ever had.” And she looked at him and says, “You idiot, those are real shrimp.” He says, “Oh, well, no wonder.”
Dr. Gundry (00:41:43):
But it’s fun. People really do want these foods, these flavors that they miss. And I was a raw vegan for about nine months, and actually had superb health, although it’s completely impractical, completely impractical. But one of the arguments that I learned was we’re really after flavors and seasonings, and it’s these flavors and seasonings, these flavors that we’re looking for. And the piece of chicken was just these spices that it was cooked in that was really what you were after. And talk to that. I think, you as a chef would say that.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:42:33):
Absolutely. Yeah. I’m interested in replicating what the non vegan, the non Plant Paradox product. So if you check out my food, it’s a lot… I mean, there’s ravioli in there, there’s lasagna, there’s spring rolls. And I just try to replicate. For instance, with the spices, how does cheese tastes like cheese? How does mozzarella taste like mozzarella? So little spoiler, in my product, there’s a little bit of lemon juice, a little bit of coconut vinegar, just that Tang mixed with a little salt. It tastes like mozzarella.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:43:17):
And it’s that easy to replicate these flavors. So why am I putting the bad-for-me product in me just because someone is marketing it to me when there’s The Sensitive Vegan who can show me how to make it from scratch at my house in a short amount of time?
Dr. Gundry (00:43:36):
In general, what was the hardest thing for you to give up? And what are your listeners say are the hardest things for them to give up?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:43:46):
Well, that’s very sad. Dr. Gundry, the saddest thing that I’ve given up is coffee. And every time I smell it, I’m jealous. I’ll actually sniff my wife’s coffee. She lets me. So what happens is I build up a strong microbiome, the mucus in there is really healthy with all the probiotics and then I’m, “Okay, I’m good now. I feel like I don’t really have to be on Plant Paradox right now.” And I’ll go ahead, make myself a coffee. I won’t pressure cook it, I’ll make myself an espresso and it’s totally fine. I feel totally fine. I feel great because there’s caffeine in me.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:44:35):
And then the next day I’m, “Okay, everything’s fine. I’m just going to have another coffee.” And then it doesn’t go so well. And I’m in pain and I have stomach pain and I have to call in sick for work. And definitely coffee is the hardest thing to give up, especially when you smell it.
Dr. Gundry (00:44:53):
Interesting. Well, we do have a few people that definitely test positive for coffee as a food sensitivity. We have a few people that cacao, they test positive as a food sensitivity. Let me ask you, are you sensitive to black pepper?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:45:14):
I’m not at the moment, but I think I was.
Dr. Gundry (00:45:18):
Uh-huh (affirmative). Interesting. Okay. All right. So do you got any coffee replacements that you like?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:45:27):
No, I’ve tried them all. I tried the dandelion coffee, which is really good but it’s got some grains in it. No, I just haven’t had luck with a good coffee replacement. And actually, all caffeine is giving me some sort of issues, so I can’t even do the matcha tea anymore.
Dr. Gundry (00:45:49):
Interesting.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:45:49):
It’s really sad. Yeah.
Dr. Gundry (00:45:52):
All right. Give me three staples that your listeners, my listeners should always keep in their kitchen.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:46:02):
Okay. So you got to have the cassava flour to make the flatbread and also to bread deep fried vegetables when you want. So you got the cassava flour, olive oil, and a nut that you like, whether it’s almonds, Brazil nuts, macadamias. With that, you can make the flatbread, the nuts spreads, you can use the nuts and olive oil in your shake, and there’s so many things you can do with the cassava flour. So those are my top three.
Dr. Gundry (00:46:35):
Do you have a pressure cooker?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:46:38):
I do have a pressure cooker and I only pressure cook beans at the moment. And it’s the only way that I can eat beans. So thank you for that tip because I do love them, especially Lima beans.
Dr. Gundry (00:46:51):
Yeah. It’s interesting. I have a number of patients who are originally from Brazil or India, and so many of them tell me that pressure cooking beans is as old tradition as pressure cookers existed and that their mothers and their grandmothers had always taught them you have to pressure cook beans. And in fact, I-
The Sensitive Vegan (00:47:25):
How did we lose this?
Dr. Gundry (00:47:26):
Well, because, and I talk about this, actually, chefs know this, we’ve lost the oral tradition of grandparents teaching parents, parents teaching their children of, here’s what we do. Last year pre COVID, I was at a biodynamic winery in Tuscany and they have a biodynamic garden and they had huge numbers of gorgeous Roma tomatoes.
Dr. Gundry (00:47:57):
And I was walking with the wine maker and I said, “So, oh, you grow tomatoes, what do you use it for?” He says, “Oh, we make tomato sauce.” I said, “Well, how do you make tomato sauce?” And he says, “What do you mean?” And I said, “Well, you just throw the tomatoes in a potty.” He says, “Oh my gosh, we would never do that. We peel in deseed the tomatoes. You can’t make sauce with the peels and seeds, they’re dangerous.” I said, “Really?” I said, “Where did you learn that?” And he says, “What do you mean where did I learn that? My mother taught me.” “Where did your mother learn that?” “My grandmother taught her that.” And we’ve lost all these traditions.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:48:37):
Yeah. I mean, you just go to the supermarket and there’s your tomato sauce. That’s what you get, whatever’s on the shelf. Nobody really talks about it.
Dr. Gundry (00:48:44):
Yeah. It’s like I remind anyone who will listen, the Incas ate a lot of quinoa, but they fermented their quinoa. They let it rot before they cook it. And it’s not on the package directions. Please ferment your quinoa.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:48:59):
It blows my mind that they came up with this.
Dr. Gundry (00:49:03):
Yeah, yeah. It’s one thing to say, here’s this food that these people lived on, and not investigate, well, what did they do to that food that they were able to make use of it? So [crosstalk 00:49:19].
The Sensitive Vegan (00:49:19):
Yeah. And it’s sad because the most of the stuff is plant-based products that vegans flock to, and then they think they’re on their healthy vegan diet, and it doesn’t work out for one reason or another. And a lot of it is just these food products that they’re eating and the way they’re eating them.
Dr. Gundry (00:49:36):
Now, that’s very true. Okay, what about dessert? You got any trick for satisfying sweet tooth?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:49:44):
Okay. So with Plant Paradox, tell me if this is… you dissuade people from eating sugar. And two things that happened is now I don’t crave sugar at all after being on a diet and I don’t crave eating at night either or early in the morning. So I don’t personally have a sweet tooth, but my wife does. And you can see on my Instagram buried down there is a pudding, that’s like three layers. You’ve got your strawberry vanilla chocolate pudding custard. And I have that one as a go-to and I’m sure I’ll do a video showing people how to make it, but I don’t tend to… I more crave the savory food. That’s what I don’t want to miss out on.
Dr. Gundry (00:50:36):
All right. Let me ask you, have you tried basil seeds yet?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:50:44):
Oh, I didn’t. I’ve been meaning to. I heard about it on your podcast.
Dr. Gundry (00:50:49):
I want you to give them a try. If you’ve got The Energy Paradox book, there’s some basil seeds in there for you. All right. So Sensitive Vegan, what a great name. It’s been great having you on the show. But before I let you go, I understand that you actually have some questions for me. So instead of doing the audience question today, let’s have at it. Okay?
The Sensitive Vegan (00:51:21):
I do have some questions. Okay. So, you were mentioning in The Longevity Paradox, that 15 years ago, you would have dismissed leaky gut theory as fanciful thinking. What is it with doctors that they want to dismiss a theory faster than anyone else? It’s hard to explain Plant Paradox or have anyone believe it, but doctors don’t want to believe this stuff at all. Can you tell me from your experience what it is about doctors that they’re impossible to dissuade with new information?
Dr. Gundry (00:51:54):
Well, of course, in our training we’re literally told that we are the authoritarian figure and that you have to project that authority for the patient to trust in you. But a number of years ago, there was a wonderful organization out of Boston called the Institute for Healthcare Improvement. And it was set up by a physician, a pediatrician that his research showed that the practicing physician is 20 years behind the current research knowledge in what he practices in his office.
Dr. Gundry (00:52:44):
And so a bunch of us in various fields were invited to actually look in our respective fields. And literally even in universities, look at where the level of practice was, where the rubber met the road, versus cutting edge knowledge. And it turns out that in all fields, it was about 20 years behind the times. And I personally saw that, I trained a lot of Japanese surgeons through my career, young surgeons, and I was invited to Japan to operate many times, and they had a hierarchy of the super senior surgeon. And believe it or not, he’d stand on three steps to operate.
Dr. Gundry (00:53:36):
And as the more senior surgeon arrived, the table went up and the steps went up. And there was a saying that the things didn’t advance until the senior surgeon either died or retired. And then the next guy took his place and his level of training was about 10 years more advanced, and so as slowly would advance as the older guys would die off. And so there’s a lot of that that I still see. So many times doctors, they don’t see because their eyes aren’t open. And I’ve written about that. I see it all the time.
Dr. Gundry (00:54:19):
And one of the great things that happened to me with Big Ed is luckily I had my eyes open when I looked and saw that Big Ed had cleaned out his coronary arteries with a diet and supplements. And I got, “How do you do that?” And I spent my last 20 plus years figuring out how Big Ed did that and asking patients to teach me how they do that.
Dr. Gundry (00:54:44):
So this is still very, very ingrained in our medical culture. The good news is that in functional medicine or restorative medicine, we’re beginning to see healthcare practitioners who are willing to look a little bit deeper and not just parrot party line. And luckily, we now know there’s great science, particularly from Dr. Fasano who’s now at Harvard, that leaky gut is not only real, but we know how it happens. And the good news is we know pretty much how to fix it. So it’s going to be a very long process.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:55:33):
Okay. So question number two, as I follow the Plant Paradox diet, my personal concern is that for some reason there’s foods not on the no list that still trigger my autoimmune response. Personally, I’ve got like the caffeine thing is something, and then bulbs like garlic and onions. I’m just wondering what your experience is with people who have that and what might cause it.
Dr. Gundry (00:56:06):
Yeah. So in recent years, particularly some of my troublemakers, about 90% of people with autoimmune disease go into remission on the Plant Paradox, just straight out of the book, the yes and no foods. But about 10% of my patients despite being, perfect swearing that they never cheat, still have markers of autoimmune or leaky gut. And we can measure these markers.
Dr. Gundry (00:56:37):
In those people starting a few years ago, and we did a much more bigger in-depth look at food sensitivities, not food allergies, that’s a totally different subject, but food sensitivities, and many times a lot of these foods that most people can tolerate were triggers. And garlic and onions, for instance, often come up. Sweet potatoes and cassava, certain people react to. And the good news is, I think, the more you get the major triggers out of your diet, then you can actually become a very finely tuned consumer, and then you go, “Okay, now I notice that for instance, caffeine is a trigger for me. I wouldn’t have never noticed it because there were so many other things in the mix, but now when I introduce this, there it is.”
Dr. Gundry (00:57:41):
So I think the benefit for most people is you become, like it or not, exquisitely sensitive to certain things. Now personally, try pressure cooking your garlic and onions and get back to me. That usually diffuses them for the most part.
The Sensitive Vegan (00:58:04):
Oh, that’s interesting. Okay, I’ll definitely do that. Okay, so by the way, I enjoy your podcast and I like the variety of guests that you have on. With some of the different treatments that are out there, we have energy tapping, Chinese medicine, cold therapy, like the Iceman. I’m just wondering, do we know that autoimmune always starts in your stomach? I know there’s external factors talked about like stress and trauma. And I’m just wondering, I don’t know if that’s connected too, does it mean that there’s other ways to treat it other than with your diet?
Dr. Gundry (00:58:51):
Yeah. I mean, there’s certainly lots of triggers. Most of these triggers actually trigger leaky gut. There’s more and more evidence that viral infections may be one of the real underlying triggers of the start of leaky gut. COVID has certainly brought that out. COVID actually is a really good cause of leaky gut. And I’m convinced, and others are beginning to get convinced, that the long haul syndrome of COVID is persistent leaky gut that started with COVID causing leaky gut. And we’ll see.
Dr. Gundry (00:59:35):
Certainly, a lot of my autoimmune patients can point to a cold or the flu or a GI, food poisoning was the start of their autoimmune disease. Certainly, my experience has been that once we seal leaky gut, and we can measure it, once we seal it, the vast majority, over 95% of autoimmune diseases subside, go away.
Dr. Gundry (01:00:08):
Now, can you flare it quickly? Yes. I’ve done that on myself and I’ve written about that. You always have to have your guard up, let’s put it that way. Or you… Yeah. Now, interestingly Iceman and Chinese medicine tapping, my next book, which I’m just finishing up, goes into how all these various modalities may play through a common factor. But if I told you what it is now, I’d have to kill you.
The Sensitive Vegan (01:00:45):
Okay, fair enough. I won’t take that one.
Dr. Gundry (01:00:47):
But that’s a teaser for the next book, folks. All right. Well, Jesse, I’ll tell you and I’ll say your name one more time, but I know you’re The Sensitive Vegan. All right. How do they find you? Where’s the cooking channel? What name do they use? I bet you it’s Sensitive Vegan.
The Sensitive Vegan (01:01:06):
Yeah. Just don’t forget to put the capital The on there. So The Sensitive Vegan on YouTube, please. And thank you. Please subscribe, please like, please comment. I want to hear from you. Check on my Instagram too, there’s at least links to the recipes in there if they aren’t in themselves and a lot of cool photos. So check out The Sensitive Vegan on YouTube and Instagram for a start. Facebook also. And I appreciate that.
Dr. Gundry (01:01:35):
What’s next for you? Any exciting projects?
The Sensitive Vegan (01:01:40):
That’s tricky. Well, I’ve got my backyard garden project going at the moment. And if you check out the channel, it’s a lot of chainsaws, it’s a lot of building a garden. I have a Plant Paradox garden that I’m currently growing. It’s coming along nicely. And I’ve learned that I really like chainsaws, so I’ve been using them frequently. And the next video is going to be a serious chainsaw video, and a very dangerous video actually.
Dr. Gundry (01:02:11):
I can see a whole new YouTube channel, The Chainsaw Vegan. And if you use that, I want full credit, okay?
The Sensitive Vegan (01:02:19):
No.
Dr. Gundry (01:02:19):
All right. All right.
The Sensitive Vegan (01:02:23):
We’ll see. We’ll see.
Dr. Gundry (01:02:24):
Sensitive Vegan, so great to have you. Please folks, check out his YouTube videos and Instagram. Believe me, you need to be entertained particularly with what we’ve been through the last year and a half. And the guy is great. I mean it, and you know I don’t give praise lightly, so get to his YouTube channel and you’ll thoroughly enjoy it. All right. Thanks very much. Good luck.
The Sensitive Vegan (01:02:54):
Thanks, Dr. Gundry.
Dr. Gundry (01:02:56):
And keep entertaining us, okay?
The Sensitive Vegan (01:02:59):
You got it.
Dr. Gundry (01:03:01):
All right. Now it’s time for the review of the week.
Speaker 4 (01:03:04):
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Kimberly Snyder (01:03:33):
Welcome to the Feel Good Podcast with Kimberly Snyder. My goal is to help you develop a holistic lifestyle based on our four cornerstone philosophy, food, body, emotional wellbeing, and spiritual growth. This holistic approach will help you feel good, which I define as being connected to your most authentic highest self. And this is the place from which your energy, confidence, creativity, true power, and true beauty will start to explode.
Kimberly Snyder (01:04:00):
Every week, we provide you with interviews from top experts in their field, or a solo cast from yours truly to support you in living your most beautiful, healthy, and joyful life. I’m your host, Kimberly Snyder, founder of Solluna, New York times bestselling author and holistic wellness, nutrition and meditation teacher. Let’s get started.
Dr. Gundry (01:04:26):
This week’s review comes from Melissa [inaudible 01:04:30], sorry, I probably fractured it, on YouTube who says, “Everything that Dr. Gundry recommends in terms of nutrition and foods, in deed, has benefited my life and has the opportunity to benefit yours. I was already a healthy eater, yet Dr. Gundry’s teachings expanded my awareness further. I have been following the Plant Paradox for a year and every day I wake up full of energy and my physical and intellectual health are soaring. Also, the food tastes great. Your taste buds will change as you adjust. So if you’re just starting out, keep it up. It’s worth it. Thank you Dr. Gundry for everything you do, and I will continue to support your messages and share them.”
Dr. Gundry (01:05:14):
Well, thank you very much, Melissa. That’s been the subject of this actually entire podcast. You will notice changes and initially you may have to work at it a little bit, but literally sometimes within days you notice changes, sometimes it may take weeks. But the longer you keep at this, this is not a diet, this is a lifestyle. And Melissa, it’s notes from you that keep me doing this. And please, if you’re listening and you like what you and you’re watching, give us a review on iTunes or wherever you get your reviews, because we’re going to get this message out to the world with your help. So thank you again because I’m Dr. Gundry and I’m always looking out for you. We’ll see you next week.
Dr. Gundry (01:06:06):
Disclaimer, on the Dr. Gundry Podcast, we provide a venue for discussion and the views expressed by my guests do not necessarily reflect my own. Thanks for joining me on this episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Before you go, I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to watch each episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast, you can always find me on YouTube at youtube.com/drgundry, because I’m Dr. Gundry and I’m always looking out for you.
