Unknown Speaker 0:00
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast, the weekly podcast where Dr. G gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life.
Unknown Speaker 0:13
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. Well, you probably heard it time and time again. excess body fat is caused by poor genetics or a slow metabolism. And a slow metabolism is completely normal once you reach adulthood. Or how about this one, the best way to shed body fat is to simply eat less food. It’s common sense, right? Wrong. And today, my guest and I are gonna let you in on the truth when it comes to body fat metabolism and aging. I’m welcoming back Dr. William Lee, an internationally renowned physician, research scientist and author of the new book Eat to Beat your diet, burn fat, heal your metabolism and live longer. In just a moment, we’ll reveal why fat is simply not the enemy of health it’s made out to be and how to make fat work for you. Instead of against you will also share how to experience incredible health benefits by losing just five pounds. Ooh, that sounds good, how to stay slim and trim through aging, menopause, and even pregnancy and the foods that make it all possible. So we’ll be right back. You don’t want to miss this one. I always stress the importance of taking care of your gut microbiome. But there’s another microbiome that’s just as important that is often looked over. It’s your oral microbiome. And it turns out that each day millions of people are wreaking havoc on it through their toothpaste. Most commercial toothpaste is filled with harsh chemicals, artificial flavors and preservatives that can have harmful effects on your oral microbiome. And more and more studies are showing that bad oral health is connected to bad heart health and bad brain health. That means that which toothpaste you use has a long reaching effect on your overall wellness. That’s why I use bite bite mix dried toothpaste tablets made with clean ingredients that are sulfate free palm oil free and glycerin free by toothpaste bits are so convenient great for traveling. You just pop a bit in your mouth, chew it up and then start brushing, it turns to pace just like you’re used to but with no plastic tube or messy pace, which means no more guns toothpaste, duck tears sink, bite is offering our listeners 20% off your first order go to try bite.com/gundry or use code Gundry at checkout to claim this deal. That’s t RYBIT e.com/gundry. So one thing I love about your new book Eat to Beat your diet is that it challenges people to rethink the entire relationship between body fat and health. And the truth is fat is not all that bad. So can you tell us more? That’s a good starting off point.
Unknown Speaker 3:16
Right? Well, I think all of us have had the same personal experience. You get up in the morning, you take a shower, you step out into the corner of ribeye, you look in the mirror and you see a lump or a bump that you didn’t think should be there. And then you step on a scale. And the number may or may not be the number that you are hoping for. And immediately you begin cursing your fitness and cursing your fat. And as adults, I think this common experience of vilifying fat has led our entire society including the medical community to really kind of be biased against the tissue that isn’t just a birthright, meaning that we form body fat in our mom’s womb, but in fact, is an actual organ in our body. And this appreciation of normal healthy fat being very important for our physiological function, our physiological health, our immune system, our ability to have a good metabolism is something that’s now really becoming sharply coming into focus with some of the new latest research on human metabolism.
Unknown Speaker 4:24
So is it okay to have a little bit of love handle is that what you’re trying to convince me is okay, when I look in the mirror? No,
Unknown Speaker 4:33
actually what I’m trying to say is that we have a a new opportunity to rethink our assumptions about body fat. And the fact is rather is is that fat is an organ in our body just like our pancreas and our spleen, our liver and our lungs. And we need to respect that. We need to tame it. And the reason is that fat has multiple functions. It happens to be one of these To remarkable tissues like your blood vessels and nerves that do a lot of different things, our fat actually has different jobs that it actually does. One of the obvious ones is that kind of keeps us warm. But not like blubber. It actually keeps us warm because it has the ability to generate heat. And that’s something that is brown fat, which is one color of fat that we need to know about. But the other things that fat does, it forms a cushion. And if we didn’t have fat as a cushion, not just on the outside of our body, but even packed inside the tube of our body, if we slipped on a rug and fell, our organs might split open. And so we have this cushion effect. The other thing that’s really important is that our fat cells from the time we’re babies act as fuel tanks, the fuel coming from our food, and our metabolism, storing that energy from our food into our fuel tanks, in the same way that you pull your car over to the filling station when your fuel gauge runs low. Our body fat really is our gas tank. So we draw energy from that. And then finally, this idea of fat being not not just an Oregon, but an endocrine organ, secreting hormones, hormones like leptin, that acts as a volume switch to our appetite hormones like a Depoe nektan, a hormone that is 1000 times higher circulating your blood than almost any other organ or any other hormone that’s out there. Why is it so important? Because this fat, normal fat hormone participates with insulin to help us our metabolism become more efficient in drawing down and bringing on board the energy into our body, or hormones like resistance, which if a dip connected is the gas pedal to allow us to absorb energy faster resistant is the break, you know, and so you know our normal fat function, or normal healthy fat, which by the way, you know, if you think about it, we we vilify fat as destroying our body shape. But in fact, from the time that we were children were boys and girls are all looking the same way to form those beautiful contours of the human body. That’s our fat also doing that as well, our cheeks, how our body has shaped every aspect, we have something to respect about fat. Having the right amount of fat is absolutely vital for beauty and health. And having too much of it is very disruptive. And so rather than think about fat as something, you got to cut out burnout poison. What we should be doing is really thinking about how do we tame our fat? How do we manage it? And that secret is actually in lies within our own body?
Unknown Speaker 7:43
So is there is there a right amount of fat that we should have? Or is it more important where our fat that we have is located? I know you talk a lot about this in the book, maybe that’s a good place to go now.
Unknown Speaker 8:00
Yeah, look, it’s kind of all of the above, but let maybe we should do is break down fat into first, the two colors that it comes in, right like we can be really simple about it, you go to the hardware store, and you’re going to paint your room. And you only have two colors to choose from on the wall paint. Well, when it comes to fat, you’ve got brown fat, and you’ve got white fat. And and they’re very different, by the way, which is really quite remarkable. white fat is the lumpy bumpy fat, it’s wiggly and jiggly as I kind of say it. And it can either be near the surface of your skin, we call that subcutaneous cutaneous being skin underneath the skin, that would be underneath your arm underneath your chin. Or that could be the love handles the muffin top or on your thighs or on your butt these that’s the kind of fat that we see and oftentimes are displeased by. So that’s one kind of white fat. The other kind of white fat you can’t see it’s not subcutaneous, it’s visceral. And visceral means gut. So gut fat is packed inside the tube of our bodies. So we can’t see it from the outside. But if we had a scanner, for example, we could actually check it out. And in fact, there are things scans like DEXA scans, and other types of more sophisticated scans that can detect it. But I wanted people to think about this visceral fat as the harmful fat because a little bit cushions your body and performs all those normal hormonal functions we talked about. But a lot of it outgrows the space in your in, you’re in the cavity of your belly, and it turns into a baseball glove that chokes your organs and becomes hyper inflammable. And in fact, fat can leak out of that gut fat and it gets stored in your liver and start destroying and being toxic to your liver so that so white fat under the skin in your in your pack in your in your body and the tube of your body got fat, perfectly normal to have just the right amount, and we’ll come back to just the right amount. In a second, but then that’s one color of fat. The other kind of kind of fat is the brown, which is really interesting because brown fat is not wiggly, jiggly, lumpy bumpy. Brown fat is wafer thin, it’s paper thin, and it’s not near the skin surface. subcutaneous, it’s close to the bone. And where is it located? It’s not your muffin top, it’s actually pressed along your neck. And it’s also formed behind your ribcage under your arms like a bra strap a little bit behind your back a little bit in your belly scattered about and what that brown fat does. And what makes it brown is that there’s an Oregon, there’s, there’s an Oregon within our cells called the mitochondria. And Dr. Gundry, you’ll you’ll relate to this because when we were in med school, remember all of that stuff, we had to memorize every organelle every cell every I mean, it was a nightmare. So I always thought about this tiny little brown organ, the mitochondria, I used to memorize a call it a mitochondria. And it’s mighty indeed, because actually, it’s a fuel cell. It’s like a little nuclear fuel cell that can generate heat. And so the purpose of brown fat, which is really remarkable is also found in animals that Hibernate is to actually generate heat to consume fuel that’s stored in fat, and to generate heat when it’s necessary. And in response to things like cold temperature, but also in response to certain kinds of foods, which is really the cool part.
Unknown Speaker 11:27
Yeah, and I’ve spent my last two books are talking about foods that activate brown fat. And so I was delighted to see that we’re absolutely on the same page with that. And there’s, I love about your book that there are, you know, tricks we can do with food and spices to actually activate brown fat. And there’s even a third type of fat that I write about that you know about, which is beige fats, and that is white fat that’s transitioning to more of a brown fat, more active fat.
Unknown Speaker 12:09
Well, that’s it that’s at the paint store, where the guy starts to mix the white and the brown, and you get that intermediate tone shape.
Unknown Speaker 12:18
Let’s get back to you know where, where this fat is located. And in my original book, one of my sayings was fat on your ass, you’re built to last fat in your gut, you’re out of luck. And I actually still stand by that I think JLo is going to live forever. But that’s another story. So you and I think we agree about this, that this too much visceral fat is is really one of the worst prognostic signs that we can actually see in the mirror. We didn’t most of us don’t even need a DEXA scan to know that there’s belly fat that shouldn’t be there. Why? Why has that been associated with bad outcomes? In our health?
Unknown Speaker 13:14
Yeah, and not only is it associated bad outcomes, and I think it’s very important to point out that this visceral fat, this harmful fat, actually is not just an issue with people who are obviously overweight, or obese. But even skinny people can have too much of this harmful, dangerous visceral fat. So let’s be really clear, visceral fat is normal, a little bit, it’s normal. But when it actually grows too much in excess, when it becomes goes from sort of the packing peanuts, that you would put in a Federal Express carton, a skinny Federal Express card. And when you’re mailing champagne glasses, and it turns into a baseball glove that you’re trying to stuffed into the carton and it chokes your organs, then it actually becomes a very, very dangerous thing. Now, the reason it becomes dangerous, by the way, goes back to something really simple. And I like to explain it to you this way. And it’s connected to our metabolism, the ideas of our metabolism. Everyone is used to driving a car and you don’t think about the fuel that you need to run your car until you look at the fuel gauge and it’s running low. When it runs low automatically as a driver we pull over to the filling station, pull out the nozzle, put it in a tank and fill it up. When when the tank is filled, the nozzle clicks and then we get back on the car and drive off. Now, when our body works the same way our metabolism pretty much fuels our body, the engine of our body so we can go from place to place and thing to thing. If we’re a little more active, we need a little more energy, we’re less less active, more sedentary, we need a little bit less energy, but we need energy and our metabolism runs that process. Now, we don’t have a fuel gauge that’s in front of our dash, but we have one in our brain. Okay and our organs also sense the levels of fuel so when we’re our fuel our bodies fuel tank runs low What do we do, we don’t pull over to the filling station, we pull over to the dinner table or to the refrigerator or to the or to restaurant or to the pantry, and we fill up. So in the same way that a gas station gives fuel ie gasoline to your car, which then powers the engine, the fuel on our body, okay, is really coming from our food. The quality of the gas, of course matters and what you will load your car into, um, you can put some crappy, low octane gas into your car, from time to time, your engine will run just fine. But if you put crappy quality fuel in your car over the course of its life, your engine is not going to last a long same as our body, the quality of the fuel, the quality of the food that we eat, can make a huge amount of difference, not on a meal, single meal basis. But over time, that’s where we need to take care of our body. Now back to the fat for a second, when we load up our fuel and sit down to eat, of course, we’re our body, the moment we’re eating food, our pancreas, one of the other endocrine organs secretes insulin, insulin rises and insulin partners with a disconnected which is that fat hormone and says, Hey, let’s draw some of that fuel into the body so that the body can actually use it for for energy. And anything more than you need to basically run the engine gets stored, where does it get stored, it gets stored in little tiny fat cells. Fat cells are like the fuel tank, and they can actually blow up when the when there’s more fuel in it. And unlike a filling station where the nozzle has a clicker, and so therefore more real, more gas goes into your tank, our body doesn’t have that clicker so we can keep eating. Now, imagine at the filling station, if you didn’t have that clicker, the tank would fill more gas would come out, the fuel would run out of the tank down the side of the car around the wheel pool around your feet, and you’d be standing in a toxic, dangerous, flammable mess. Similarly, when we overeat and overload on fuel, know our fuel is called calories. But I don’t want people to focus on calories in calories out and counting the calories. I want people to think simply that the food that we eat is our fuel. But when we actually overload our fuel tanks, you got to make more fuel tanks, more fat, more filling, more fat, more filling. And that’s basically how overeating blows up our fat mass. And at a certain point, the fuel leaks out and that leakage actually is very toxic when fat leaks out lipo toxicity. Our liver is one of the most sensitive organs to fat poisoning, which can happen when we overload. And the other thing is that fat as fat expands, remarkably, and I’m a cancer researcher, it actually acts like a tumor, meaning that it can route very rapidly outgrow its own blood supply, our fat needs a circulation to, but as it outstrips its blood supply, because we’re putting just way too much fuel in our body. And again, the tanks are getting bigger and bigger. What happens is the center of that fat mass doesn’t have enough oxygen. And so it becomes inflamed, hypoxic and is becomes inflamed, and that inflammation starts to seep out around the body. Now, when that happens inside the tube of our body, you got bigger mass, you got inflammation, you got seeping toxic fat, just like that overage of leaking gas around your, around your feet, if you didn’t have the clicker at the gas station, in a similar way, that overage of fuel that that overdyed that gigantic growth of fat cells, visceral fat, especially, what it does is it wrecks the hormonal functions inside your body. So leptin, which is made by fat to help control the epicyte. You know what, when a fight, is that confused and that inflamed? I don’t know, are you hungry or not hungry? adiponectin, which helps insulin drive energy? Do we want a lot or a little I can’t remember. What about the resistance to slow things down? I don’t know. We’re confused. And so this chaos, mass chaos. It’s a riot that happens in that endocrine organ called fat in your body disrupts your disrupts really all of your functions. And that’s where something that is normal, healthy and critical, vital for your energy. When we actually abuse it, or when it is abused. It needs to actually be put back into balance. And that’s really why I think the real reason to control body fat is not really about vanity, it’s about inner health. That’s where the priority is. I want
Unknown Speaker 19:35
to come back to your you know, cancer research because I want to come back to VEGF but I want to stay on this point it because you make a point that just losing five pounds, makes measurable differences in this whole process. Can Can you walk us through that? Because five pounds Okay, five pounds Writing I can I can do that? I know. Yeah, I need to lose 50 pounds, but five pounds. Okay, why is that? So beneficial? What can we see with that just much weight loss?
Unknown Speaker 20:14
Yeah, I mean, it’s such a important point I title a section of my book lose lose a little gain a lot. Because we don’t normally think that way we think in order to get anything, you got to lose a lot, right? That’s what everybody’s obsession with weight loss is, has always been gravitated towards that I think that, you know, what we’ve discovered in the medical research world, is that incremental weight loss pays off in a really big way. I’m going to talk about five pounds in a second. But even losing a couple of pounds, Ken has actually been shown to have a benefit. I mean, there have been studies in more than almost 5000 individuals across 25 clinical trials that look at weight reduction, and this is actually purposeful, intentional weight reduction, not the kind, not the kind of weight you lose, when you’re on a desert island, or you’ve got cancer, this is purposely trying to lose weight. And it turns out that if you lose for every two pounds of weight loss, okay, you can reduce one point of your systolic blood pressure, that’s actually the top number that represents how much force of your blood jutting out jetting out of your heart. And losing blood pressure, even by one point makes a big difference, because you think about how much how many people actually on blood pressure medications, with this idea that high blood pressure is a silent killer kit that can lead to stroke, that force that your heart pumps blood out, affects every single organ in your body. So for every point, you lose, you actually gain more protection of your noggin and all the other organs in your body as well. And so if you really think about it, this has been shown actually, it pays off even in terms of heart failure, which is also a consequence of high blood pressure, and other problems of your vascular system. But we know that losing even two pounds, all right, can lower your risk of heart failure by almost 3%, you lose four pounds, you reduced the risk by 5.6%. In terms of the risk of heart failure, nobody talks about that, right? Nobody thinks about like, even the small amounts have big payoffs in terms of your longevity, which is you know, living well, nobody lives well with heart failure. You live well, when you’re a pump, is actually good until the very end. Now let’s talk about five pounds, because I think that five pounds is a reasonable goal for almost everyone to actually look at. Now, this is the study, by the way that was done that I cite that was led by the American Cancer Society, they looked at 180,000 People from the US, Australia, and in Asia, right. So this is a lots of different geographical areas, lots of different lifestyle habits, body sizes, and they looked at women who were in their midlife, so they were in their 50s. This is the this is the time of life where a lot of women are struggling with their weight. Okay, and they were trying to correlate how much weight that they purposely tried to lose with a diagnosis of breast cancer. And what is what they found that those women in this 180,000, who lost five pounds, at least five pounds, and kept it off, they had an 18% decrease in the risk of developing breast cancer. That’s an important lowering, without taking any medication without doing anything else that just lowering the risk. Now, by the way, what’s the connection between body fat weight loss and cancer? Well, remember, we talked about this when fat is growing, it becomes inflamed inflammation is a setup for tiny tumors sparking up and growing into deadly cancers. And remember that basically, having this inflammation and toxicity to your bodies, leads to more free radicals in your body, it actually disrupts your immune system, and your immune system actually patrols your body normally to ward off and to get rid of tiny little cancers that might be forming. So this is, you know, really all the human evidence that I think we need to see, to know that there are big payoffs for losing very reasonable amounts of body fat and body weight.
Unknown Speaker 24:31
Yeah, the other thing I point out to my female patients and actually my male patients is the fat is clearly an endocrine organ, as you mentioned, but it’s also it makes hormones like estrogen and I many of my female patients with breast cancer who are postmenopausal are shocked when I show them their estrogen level. There are to dial level, and you know, it’s, it’s elevated and they go, but that’s impossible. You know, I am at a period in five years. And I said, it’s from your fat and then they say what and that gets back to your study, you’re absolutely right that study after study has shown that one of the big impacts of losing fat is you will reduce this hormone, and son of a gun in my practice, they are delighted when, let’s say three months go by and they’re down 10 pounds. And now their estradiol is is either dramatically reduced or even unmanageable, and they go, what that you know, that just from my fat, I was doing that it’s true.
Unknown Speaker 25:44
And that’s why we don’t want to vilify fat, we want to understand that it performs this natural, it’s, we need to balance it, it’s just part of another one of our parts of our body that we need to take care of. And I think too often we just live our lives the way that we do without thinking about that part of our body as yet another part that we have to maintain just like when you’re taking care of your car, you need to have it regularly maintained and everything checked out. Body fat is no different.
Unknown Speaker 26:15
So let’s go back to kind of your, your concept of let’s, let’s use our body fat to lose body fat. And I want to get back to Brown fat. And the tricks you and I both are very impressed with the power of food, to control most of what’s going to happen to us. And talk about how the techniques we can use to make brown fat active and make brown fat burn more fat, because I think this is really empowering to people.
Unknown Speaker 26:52
Yeah, well, I want to tell a tiny little story in a short time we have that gives people a better understanding that this brown fat thing is is something that is really part of our human anatomy. But we didn’t always think it was part of our anatomy. In fact, back I can tell you the discovery of the origins of brown fat, like how we even figured it out date all the way back to the 17th century. There was a naturalist named Conrad Gessner naturalist or people that study the natural world. And back in the day, you know, they would actually see animals and do dissections, like we used to do in med school to look at all the organs and draw pictures of them to try to figure out what they did. And so Conrad Gasser looked at a hibernating mammal, called the Alpine Marmot it looks like a like It looks like a woodchuck actually. And when he he recognized all the organs, except for this one little brown mass soft mass between its shoulder blades. And because he was seeing these in hibernating animals, he just called them hybridomas, the OMA referring to a mass. That’s why we call it tumors Olmos carcinoma. But he didn’t know what it was. Fast forward to the mid 19 century at UCLA, a physiologist who really had the ability to look more deeply under the microscope of brown fat. And of course, people had been found brown fat and other hibernating animals like bats and, and things like that. And other animals like that. It was identified that oh my gosh, this brown fat is actually or this brown mass hybridomas actually made a fat, the tissue is actually fat. Now, what’s really interesting is what makes brown fat Brown. And I, you know, I’m one of these guys, like, just like you, Dr. Gundry. I mean, as researchers with research backgrounds, we always ask why, you know, it’s probably it probably was very annoying. Probably it was really annoying to our parents. Absolutely. Right. But But, but that’s really what you know, like people like us. So why is brown fat brown? It turns out that mitochondria, the mitochondria, those fuel cells, actually have a lot of iron in them. And iron, as you know, from a from a nail outside turns rusty, which is brown. And so you have lots of mitochondria, lots of these fuel cells, these little power plants packed into the brown fat, because they generate heat, which makes sense to a hibernating animal. So, for a long time, it was thought that only animals had this and then when they checked out babies behind the shoulder blade between the shoulder blades. They’re like, okay, there’s a little bit there, but it’s probably like the appendix of the tonsils, which we now know have a real function. But when we when you and I were, you know, in medical school, they taught us nevermind, just lose them cut about this, get rid of them. And now we know like, oh my god, they’re part of the microbiome. They how’s our immune system. So most things that stick around are used for something Mother Nature is extremely resourceful, and doesn’t like to waste anything. And so the brown fat and babies, those kind of melt away becomes less prominent. It’s and but it wasn’t really until much later, when PET scans were developed that look at metabolism, that discovery that round fat was present in adults, particularly adults getting a PET scan, often for cancer, or for diagnosis that there was around when they were getting scanned during the winter months in the northeast of the country, cold temperatures turn out, just like hibernating animals to trigger the brown fat so that so cold temperatures is one way that we can turn on brown fat. And by turning on the brown fat under the scan, the PET scan, you see this thing light up like a Christmas tree, right. And this is actually how they figured out that cold temperature actually activates prompt and at the National Institutes of Health. Maybe even while you were there, Dr. Gundry, they started to explore, there’s a whole division that actually studies human adipose tissue or human fat. And it turns out that brown fat is actually quite prevalent in the body, but because it’s paper thin, and it’s usually not working too hard. It’s in reserve held in reserve. But it’s behind our breastbone under our arms, it’s around the straps of our neck, it’s a little bit in our belly, and cold temperature will activate them. But we figured out there are chemical signals that can be triggered by cold or triggered by stress hormones, like nor epinephrine, or triggered by foods that can actually turn them on. And I you know, I like to give this, this a little bit of this demo. I just happened to be here doing a lot of teaching about metabolism. But when it’s cold temperature, or when you’re eating a food, like a great example where a lot of research has been done is chili peppers, the kind of stuff you put on a pizza, Okay, that’ll light up your brown fat. So what does it do? It triggers your brain, the signal triggers a brain and your brain releases a hormone like Noor adrenaline, that activates receptors, these cellular receptors, these light switches, electric switches on top of your brown fat that wafer thin and when it activates that it triggers the mitochondria, the mitochondria to turn on its engine and what happens this is what it does. Let me show you, it goes like this. Boom, you get a torch lit okay and this the fuel that it takes to create this kind of heat is drawing down fuel from another location. That other location is stored fat in the harmful fat. So this is how good fat brown fat can fight harmful fat which is that excess visceral fat or white fat.
Unknown Speaker 32:41
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Unknown Speaker 40:09
Yeah, well, you know, actually, it’s been studied like tree nuts. Like walnuts, for example, which contain lots of great dietary fiber and some healthy fats also can groom our gut microbiome good healthy gut, is not just good for your immune system a lowering inflammation, which can combat the effects of harmful fat, but also helps us streamline our metabolism make everything work a little bit better. And it turns out that eating just a handful of walnuts, a couple of times a week has been shown to shrink your waist circumference. Now, your waist circumference, by the way, is another great way to really get an idea like your belt is a great way to know how much visceral fat you have. Because when your pants feel a little loose, and you got to actually cinch your belt that one extra inch, you’re not losing guts, you’re not losing intestines or liver, you’re actually losing visceral fat. So that’s actually a kind of what we call a surrogate, a kind of a standard marker, when your visceral fat starts to shrink in, in eating tree nuts, for example, can do that prunes can also do that as well. Prunes have lots of polyphenols found in the plum, as well as dietary fiber, that can actually also have that effect, a number of other pantry items and refrigerators. One of the things I do in my book, by the way that I had a lot of fun doing is writing the section about food. In my book, The middle section, part two, I was writing it as an author imagining pushing a grocery cart through the supermarket, and inviting the reader to be like when they were when we were all kids jumping into our mom’s shopping cart with her pushing us around the produce section in the middle aisles and a seafood section and a beverage section and meet Lily as the author just whispering in your ear. Here are the foods you should take that can actually activate your brown fat to help the fight the white fat, make more bass fat, and also shrink your waist circumference and help you lose weight.
Unknown Speaker 42:06
It’s a great technique that you you do so you know kudos for that. Let’s get back to metabolism for a second. And I love the myth busting that you do in the book that everybody is convinced that, you know I’m fat because I have a slow metabolism or I’m now perimenopausal and everybody knows that my metabolism is slowing down. Oh, is there? Is there truth to this myth? Or do you want to bust that one as well?
Unknown Speaker 42:40
Yeah, this was this is perhaps the biggest mic drop that I actually put into this book A to be your diet. And that is that it’s a brand new understanding of human metabolism has emerged just in the last two years, that has really led us at the scientific community and the medical community to realize that a lot of things that we used to think just ain’t so. And this is by the way, why you have to follow the science. Alright. So I want to describe a little bit of a I wouldn’t describe a very important research study, but a little bit of in a way that everyone can understand. So there was a researcher at Duke University named Herman Ponsor, who worked with almost 90 other colleagues across 20 countries. And they set out to look at human metabolism across 6000 people. And they studied them all in exactly the same way. So this is actually the most ambitious undertaking ever in human history, to study in metabolism 6000 people from across 20 countries and exactly the same way. How did they study them, they gave them a little drink of water, okay, but water we know is h2o, the H being hydrogen, the O being oxygen. And what these researchers did was really, really clever. They just chemically tweaked the hydrogen and chemically tweaked the oxygen just a little bit, so that when these people drank the water, their metabolism would process those atoms. And then you could measure what the metabolism was doing in their breath, or in their blood or in their urine. And they did it exactly the same way as 6000 people. And the most surprising thing is they studied people that were two days old, and 90 plus years old. So in this research study, not only was it a huge study across different parts of the world, but they also study the entire human lifespan from just a couple of days out all the way into the 90s. And when they actually looked at the results, what the what kind of metabolism these people have, at the first analysis of the data, they found that everybody’s metabolism was all over the map. Okay, just like you would expect. All right. And what was really remarkable, and this is, I think, the genius part of their study. We now live in this big data world where we can actually take a huge amount of Data and adjust it. So what they did is for every individual they were able to adjust based on their body size and their body mass, they could subtract out the effect on metabolism of excess body fat. So for every person in this 6000 person study, they could actually adjust and remove the effect on metabolism of excess body fat. And when they did that 6000 times the result of what what the what the metabolism of these people were, was like pulling the cloak off the statue of David for the first time, what they found was that all humans go through only four phases of metabolism over the course of our lives. And this is so surprising that it has huge implications on how we think about the changes in our body and how much we Why We Fight body fat, and our weight over time. So let me just quickly walk through the four phases. Phase one, when we are born, we all have the same metabolism. But in the first year, first 12 months of life, from the zero to the first, for the first year, one years old, our metabolism skyrockets like a rocket ship blasting off to about 50% higher than what our adult levels are going to be. Alright, so it’s really important for those of you who are, you know, thinking about, like, you know, the first year of life, how do you take care of a baby? Like there’s a lot going on, in that first year, they’re absorbing everything and utilizing everything. That’s phase one, phase two, is from one year old to 20 years old. Okay? That metabolism actually goes down, down, down, down, down, down from one to 22 adult levels. Now, why is that surprising, because any of us who have had kids know that during teenage years, your kids are eating to dinner, they’re bouncing off the wall, they’re sprouting up like a beanstalk. And you go, Well, the reason that is is because their metabolism is escalating. Skyride, skyrocketing, right, wrong. It’s not, it’s coming down, they’re getting bigger, but their metabolism is, is is going down towards the landing. That’s phase two, phase three. And this is where the real surprises from age 20 to age 60. This research study showed that human metabolism from 20, to 30, to 40, to 50, to 60, is rock solid, we are hardwired to have a rock solid metabolism. That’s how our operating system works. That’s how our metabolism is designed throughout the course of our adult lives. That’s phase three, that is through your college, your first job, your first baby that’s through your menopause. That’s all that time your 40s and 50s, wherever you’re struggling with their weight, saying, well, it’s not my fault, it’s just because of my age. myth busted, it’s, you know, it’s intended your metabolism tend to be rock solid, what that means by the way, Dr. Gundry, is 60 can be the new 20. If you follow your inner metabolism. Now I’m going to come back to what happens to metabolism and why we actually have so much problems in a second. But from that’s the third phase, the fourth phase is from 60 to 90, we do have a small marginal decrease in our metabolism, about 17%. By the time you’re 90, your metabolism is about 70% of what it should have been in 60. And, and at 20. All right, so what happens, it’s really amazing in these four phases, which I published this graph in my book that I think just changes my mind. You know, as a doctor who thought I knew a lot about human metabolism, I had to revise my thinking. And what I tell people is that, you know, whatever textbook, you and I studied in medical school about metabolism, that’s now being ripped up. And a new textbook is being written based on this kind of research and the other things we’re talking about. And some of those textbooks aren’t published yet. So you know, people who are listening to our hearing really the state of the art of thinking, as we are actually seeing it appear as medical professionals now. So what actually happens, remember I told you this was an algorithm that allowed us to pull fat out of the system. And what was found is when you add fat back into the system, into the into the operating system, what happens is that adding the fat bank in crushes your metabolism. So it’s it’s not the slow metabolism causes you to grow fat and slow and gain weight. It’s the other way around, gaining weight, growing too much body fat, through behavior and activity over our stress, hormonal problems, all kinds of other things, actually crushes your metabolism. It’s inside out. It’s really up ending our thoughts. But the good news is that means that actually we have the power. We have the agency to be able to address something that we used to think with our genetic destiny. Yeah, I think
Unknown Speaker 49:40
that’s I think that’s really important. And I know the study you’re talking about, I actually referenced in my last few books, and it is it’s it’s really mind boggling particularly even for medical professionals who you’re right. We thought we knew how this worked. And we were all wrong. And it is is the fat Okay, let’s let’s bring it home, you, again, five pounds would make a big difference two pounds will make a big difference. What are the action steps and you detail them in the book, but can you give us a brief summary? What are the action steps to get me to, to lose those five pounds and keep them off?
Unknown Speaker 50:21
First of all, let me kind of disclose something that is that will help you understand where I’m coming from. I’m a scientist, I’m a doctor, but I am also somebody who really enjoys the art of eating, I enjoy the taste of great food. And you and I have had many conversations about the Mediterranean meals that I’ve enjoyed alone and not yet had the opportunity to join together, which is coming one of these days. So one of these days, but but here’s the thing, you know, before we talk about, like the action steps, you know, I want to first say that one of the things that makes us human is our ability to enjoy food, our humanity is part of sitting down and breaking bread. And the reason that over 10s of 1000s of years, we’ve actually developed sophisticated cooking techniques that people sit down into joy, and we look forward to at family gatherings and holidays is really part of who we are our own humanity. I think that can’t be under underscored. And so I titled my new book, Eat to Beat your diet, because specifically because, you know, my publisher was like, Well, why don’t you write a diet book. And what I decided to do is to write an anti diet book. It’s a trick title. And it’s an anti diet book, because I want people to realize that for you to keep your weight off. And for you to fight harmful body fat, you’ve got to be able to do something that you can stick to for your entire life and not feel like you are being deprived. You know, this is why major extreme diets don’t work. Elimination, deprivation restriction. You know, human nature abhors deprivation, you tell somebody, they can’t do something, my brain, maybe I’ll do a little bit, maybe you’re not looking, I’ll go do something. Alright, that doesn’t work. And so number one leaning into something that you can get behind and enjoy and aligning the pleasure of eating, rediscovering the joy of food, while aligning your interests with your metabolism and health. And fighting harmful body fat is exactly what I aim for in eating to beat disease. And the good news is that you can do it with some pretty easy steps, you know, and I’d like to kind of boil them down first and just sort of like how do you go about eating? We’re not talking about what to eat. But how do you go about eating over the course of your day? All right. Look, intermittent fasting is quite popular these days. And it sounds like it’s been invented just a couple of years ago. But in fact, I want to just clarify clear up everyone. Intermittent Fasting is what we do. Like that’s, you know, we intermittently eat and we intermittently don’t eat when we’re sleeping. And here’s the thing when we’re eating, we talked about this earlier, when we’re eating our insulin levels go up to get that energy and just to store energy, our body doesn’t want to burn fuel. Alright, so anything that could, so we’re not wearing an anti burn fuel burn sort of perspective, we’re actually storing energy and storing into our fat as well. And when we’re not eating, it’s levels go down. Like when we’re sleeping, and our our metabolome. switches gears. It’s like switching a train track. And now it’s like, Okay, let’s go. It’s a fat burning energy burning mode. And now you can burn you can draw on that energy that was stored, might have been stored during the day, when you ate might have been storing from yesterday, or over the holidays, you know, and that’s the idea to think about it. So when we’re sleeping and not eating or fasting, we’re actually burning our fat. So what that’s one of the things that we should do is learn that our bodies working for us our metabolism working for us when we’re not actually eating. So here’s a couple of little tricks that make it easier for your body to burn a little bit more. Let’s first say that you get going to eat sleep eight hours a day, which I hope most people try to do. Levin o’clock, you go to bed seven o’clock in the morning, it might be a little different, but that’s eight hours. Okay? Now, that’s the time your body’s capable of burning fuel. Okay, when insulin is down, if you want to actually increase the time of burn, to be able to help manage your weight, you don’t need to go on anything crazy. Just let’s say you eat dinner at seven o’clock, and you finish at eight you put your dishes away. Don’t snack after that. Don’t eat dessert, don’t Nahshon picking a pantry before you go to bed. No bedtime snack. When you put the dishes away, stop eating. Let’s say eat at seven. Put your dishes away at eight. Don’t eat anything from eight to 11. When you go to bed. You’ve just gained three extra hours of actually fuel burning, which is fat burning. Time for your body. Get up in the morning. All right. Don’t do and so I tell people and everyone always smiles from him. Like don’t do what our mommies told us to do, which is get out of bed, eat breakfast and get into that school bus to get to school. All right. This is what I do. I get up in the morning. I get ready, take a shower, I get dressed. I might check my emails. I might go for a walk. I might check out the garden whatever it is I don’t eat right away, I give myself an extra hour. Okay, and it’s very natural for me now. And now I’ve gained an extra hour of time where I’m not eating where my body can burn fuel. So think about it eight hours asleep, I just three hours before now it’s 11 hours, one extra hour in the morning, I got half my day, 12 hours to burn off fuel, and very reasonably. So 12 fasting, 12 not fasting. You know, people go 16 and eight, right? You look, of course, you fast longer, you’re gonna burn more, but even 12 hours works. And that’s been studied in clinical trials. So don’t sweat it like that, like when you eat, it matters. How much you eat goes all the way back to that filling station. And when do you actually not overload your tanks, so you’re growing extra fat and storing extra fuel. Like if you store a lot of extra fuel, you’re gonna pay for it, it’s gonna take longer to burn off. Over time, it’s going to be more and more difficult for you actually to burn off everything that’s accumulates, don’t eat too much quit the clean plate club. All right, now you get to the interesting part, which is what you choose to eat what to eat. All right. And this is where there’s a lot of logic to what we’ve heard already from everyone. A lot of things in the produce section, a grocery store, everything from, you know, brassica, you know, your sulforaphane containing broccoli and bok choy and cauliflower, your swiss chard, all these things are actually really tasty. If you look at Mediterranean cooking or Asian cooking, absolutely delicious. So for Fanes cause white fat to turn beige turns out brown fat to turn on that space heater, flame burning function. All right, even redirects your stem cells from making more white fat, make some make more brown fat. So go to that, go to the produce section, and knock yourself out with so many of these great foods. I put like 150 foods in there in my book. But here’s the other thing. We’re always told to shop the perimeter of the supermarket. Yeah, please do. That’s where most of the good stuff is. But in my book, I introduce this idea that you should do a treasure hunt in the middle aisles. Don’t be afraid. Go in there and look for the treasure. It’s in there. And I tried to tell you by writing out as a viewer, my shopping cart, what’s the real gold you want to find for your metabolism and to ignore the fool’s gold, right, go into that mind and look for the real gold beans can be useful for you. Lentils, some olive oils, really great olive oils. I know that this is an area that you’re very passionate about. As of I hydroxy towers, all the you know, there’s so many other bioactives in there, dried mushrooms, dried chili peppers, as well, apple cider vinegar, or actually, frankly, any vinegar, the acetic acid that makes Vinegar Vinegar actually turns out to prevent little fat cells from filling up as fast and as filled as when you’re trying to fill up your gas tank as as it might want to do otherwise. And so lots of ways to actually control body weight, including the seafood section. And I talked about the beverages. And let’s not even, let’s just say we don’t have to mention that having sodas with tons of added sugar, or diet sodas with non nutritive artificial sweeteners that poison your gut microbiome. Let’s just move that aside and say, Look, we know that’s not good for you. But even like fruit juices and things like that they can contain a ton of sugar. I read my book that look. I love orange juice. I grew up drinking orange juice, right? But if you had a choice between eating one delicious orange, Juicy Orange versus having a tall glass of orange juice, here’s where it goes both have bioactives that are fat fighting like hesperetin and Aerojet. Okay, both have dietary fiber Have you get juice with pulp in it. All right. But the thing is, I could drink gulp down a tall glass of orange juice in 30 seconds, and it tastes really good. All right. But I thought it would take me a little while to eat a whole orange you know, take my time, maybe 10 minutes if I’m the second on it. However, there’s a lot of sugar in an orange, but in a tall glass of orange juice. It would take eight oranges to make a tall glass and I would never sit down and eat the sugar of eight oranges. So we’ll use talk about nutrient dense foods. For fruit beverages fruit drinks, it’s always better to go for the whole fruit to get the taste of it. Rather than guzzle down all of the other extra sugars. It is nutrient dense, you just get a lot more sugar that way. So when I talk about for beverages, I do mention a few juices that are standouts. But when I say that there’s a holy trinity of beverages when it comes to body fat metabolism, brown fat, and they fall into The Holy Trinity is water, tea, and coffee. Those three have been shown in the lab, in the clinic and in epidemiological studies to actually activate your metabolism helped you optimize your metabolism?
Unknown Speaker 1:00:15
Yeah, and I would add a proviso, please don’t put milk into your coffee or tea? Absolutely. Yeah. And we know that, you know, cultures that don’t add milk to their coffee or tea actually have much better health than cultures who do drink coffee or tea, but put milk in them. And unfortunately, it binds the poly phenols.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:42
Yeah, exactly. You know, and just really to amplify that point a little bit, because you and I are scientists, and we can comfortably talk about this is that, you know, dairy is fatty, and fat forms little soap bubbles around pretty much anything it gets into, because they’d rather stick to each other. When you put dairy into tea or coffee, it naturally, dairy naturally forms tiny little invisible soap bubbles that wrap around the poly phenols. And so when you drink them, what’s happening is that those poly phenols, a lot of them are stuck within the soap bubble, and a lot less is absorbed in your gut. So you actually washed a lot of it out, it doesn’t actually destroy the polyphenols, but it blocks it from your body from absorbing it. On top of that, other additives to coffee and tea that many cultures do that. I really think from a health perspective, you should cut down or cut out, please don’t add a ton of sugar to it. Please don’t squirt artificial flavorings into it, you know that you would get at a drive thru. And you know, and also don’t put non nutritive sweeteners in it either. So Mother Nature gave us, you know, the gift of these beverages these brews in their pure form. And it’s wonderful to actually drink them that way.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:56
Yeah, one of my other sayings is more bitter, more better. And you and I would both agree with that as well. That’s the way Mother Nature gave it to us. And we should pay attention. All right, I gotta let you go. Where? Where can people find the book? That’s probably obvious. But where can people find out more about you, as if they didn’t know, but let’s let people know.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:21
Well, my new book HV your diet, you can get it anywhere books are sold. But you know, one of the things that I continuously do is to put out new information about new research that I see. Let me do the heavy lifting to kind of take a look through it. And I’ll take the pieces now. I’ll disseminate them to people as they see something worthwhile knowing come to my website at Dr. Dr. William Li li.com, Dr. William Lee, or follow me on social, my handle is at Dr. Dr. William Li Li. And you can find me on Instagram and Twitter and Tiktok. You know, what’s the great part I think about social media today is it gives us a chance to see something and say something, you know, just like what they say at the TSA. And I think that for those of us who are in the business of drinking from the fire hydrant of new discoveries, there’s an opportunity for us to really be able to give people little bits of information that my love might allow them to just make small but important better choices as they go around their day when it comes to body fat. By the way, don’t fear your fat, tame it, and understand that you can lose a little and gain a lot.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:28
Great summary. All right, I warned you that I do an audience question and because of the question, I’m going to let you take first crack at it. This is a question from Maxwell bear Clark on YouTube, who actually watched and enjoyed our last episode together. So he wants to know, does saturated fat increase insulin resistance? Great question.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:55
It is a great question. And you know, actually the fact that that he’s asking it shows that he’s thinking about these complex processes and how they get put together. So for everyone’s benefit. I don’t know if Maxwell is actually a biochemist or you know, as a science background, but you know, it’s an actual it’s a really good question. Look. Insulin resistance is a term that we’re hearing a lot about now, because it is a it is a inherits the development of metabolic syndrome, which heralds diabetes retire heralds all kinds of other chronic diseases that we don’t want to get. We don’t know what to develop. So what does it mean to be insulin resistant? Well, it can mean that you make in normal insulin but your body’s your metabolisms a lot less efficient in absorbing that energy from the food we eat into ourselves. So as a result, your blood sugar starts to rise, your insulin, your body goes, Oh, we’re not getting that energy. Let’s make even more insulin. And then you’re and then you’re but it stopped because it’s not working. So now your blood pressure get higher and your body makes more insulin, and out of all that you have chemicals, proteins like IGF one and other things that just start going up up up up, it’s it’s really kind of a domino effect of, of your metabolism not working properly. So the reason I’m saying this is really because what happens is that normal insulin goes up and goes down, you draw in energy, you reload, you burn that energy reloaded. So insulin resistance really is just a description of your insulin, your energy, your metabolism not working properly. So anything that can actually threaten that normal operating process, that operating program, actually could potentially develop, could could cause you to potentially develop insulin resistance. Now, one of the things we talked about, if you actually poison your gut microbiome, okay, if you change your gut microbiome, you can change your body’s sensitivity to insulin. Now, the saturated fat by itself, change your gut microbiome. Well, there’s some studies that show as quickly as 24 hours after eating a big slug of saturated fat, you can have some changes, the good news is that your gut microbiome will kind of recover itself. It’s like a it’s like a canoe, you get into it, you tip this way, but then pretty quickly, you need to rebalance. But if you do nothing but eat and pound, saturated fat, red meat, all that kind of stuff in your body, you know, you start to you start to wobble a little bit more and get out of balance. Now. So that’s one contribution to something like insulin resistance. But eating fat saturated by fat by itself doesn’t directly cause it, it is not causative to say a or s causes AI or insulin resistance. So I think you know, what we want, what we need to be able to do is to try not to take any two points and connect them together, we need to realize just how complicated this engine is. How do you think about it? It’s Dr. Gun. Yeah, you
Unknown Speaker 1:06:53
know, the the anti fat folks, when you do rat and mouse experiments, you can put them on a high fat diet that contains a lot of Paul Mytek acid, which is a major component, for instance of palm oil. And you can show that palmitic acid is actually pretty good at producing insulin resistance. But as I wrote about in the energy paradox, the vast majority of us, we make palmitic acid from fructose from sugar, and not from eating palmitic acid. And so we got to be careful about Yes, palmitic acid can produce insulin resistance, but because the fact that it’s a saturated fat doesn’t mean that we were eating the cause, or insulin resistance. And again, most of our insulin resistance sadly, becomes comes from our overconsumption of refined carbohydrates in our diet, Now, add in a lot of fat, and that’s the perfect storm, I completely agree with you.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:57
Exactly, you know, it’s a matter of degree, right? I mean, one of the things that I find most remarkable about the human body is the resilience, that we that is baked into our bodies, you know, we were able to easily last nine decades, you know, weathering the storm of just being alive, and getting to enjoy it along the way. And the fact of the matter is, is that we do need to take care of that ship, you know, if you don’t actually, you know, make sure that it’s, it stays waterproof. And you batten down the hatches every now and then, you know, it may not make the whole journey in good shape. So that’s, I think, what you know, what your books and what my books are all about, and our research has all been all about, is how do we batten down the hatches? And how do we take care of the ships so we can make that long journey in the in the most pleasurable way possible.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:45
Perfect ending, perfect ending, always like to see and talk with you. And we’ll have you back and take care and good luck with the book. I know it’s gonna do great. Thank you, you do a great job of explaining complex matters. And thanks so much.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:04
Hey, this is Dr. Drew, and I’d like to invite all of you to subscribe to the Dr. Drew podcast. We are very proud of what we’re doing there at that podcast. I am interviewing some of the most interesting people you could ever want to talk to just whatever I find fascinating, whether as a smart person or an expert in a field that I’m interested in, or maybe I’m not even interested in. I’m only interested because I’ve heard them speak and become intrigued. I think you’ll be intrigued as well. We get deep into topics that are quite important to the current age. Things like cognitive dissonance, cognitive distortions, how does our mind work? We talk about everything in the dark through podcast, it is a real relevance. We get all the way into deep physics and all sorts of stuff, but trust me, it’s all very accessible. It’s very interesting headaches for even just learning about headaches we get there. We go to the interesting topics of the day. Please join us at the Dr. Drew podcast
Unknown Speaker 1:09:58
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Unknown Speaker 1:10:30
Okay, it’s time for the review of the week from Natalie Jacoby on YouTube. Hey, my name is Natalie. I’m 11 and my mom is a big fan of yours. Her name is Reina Jacoby, and she watches your podcast almost every day. You have helped her through her autoimmune disease and her rheumatoid arthritis is doing so much better. Thanks to your diet, it would mean a lot to her. If you wouldn’t mention her in your podcast, she is the most amazing person ever. And She means the world to me, thank you so much. Well, Natalie, this goes out to your mom and to you because Natalie at 11, I would be willing to bet that you are actually helping keeping your mom on track it not a day passes, that when I see some family members of my patients, my patients accuse their kids of being the Gestapo in the family and saying I don’t think Dr. Gundry would like you eating that. So Natalie, good for you for helping your mom and mom, keep up the good work. I’m delighted to hear that you’re doing a lot better with this program and your rheumatoid arthritis. And as you probably know, about 80% of my practice now is autoimmune diseases where people don’t want to take these medications are having trouble understanding why they have this and want to get rid of it. And the good news is over 90% of people in my published studies can reverse their autoimmune diseases by following this program. And that’s why I keep doing this because you deserve to not have these autoimmune diseases, which really didn’t exist long ago. So good for you, Natalie, and good for you, Mom Jacoby. And we’ll see you next week because I’m Dr. Gundry. And I’m always looking out for you. I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Dr. Gundry podcast. If you did, please share this with family and friends. You never know how one of these health hacks can completely transform someone’s life when you take the time to share it with them. There’s also the Dr. Gundry podcast YouTube channel where we have 10s of 1000s of hours of free health insights that can help you and your loved ones live a long vital life. Let’s do this together. Because I’m Dr. Gundry. And I’m always looking out for you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
