Speaker 1 0:00
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast where Dr. Steven Gundry shares his groundbreaking research from over 25 years of treating patients with diet and lifestyle changes alone. Dr. Gundry and other wellness experts offer inspiring stories, the latest scientific advancements and practical tips to empower you to take control of your health and live a long happy life.
Dr Gundry 0:23
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. All right, your last cup of coffee was at noon you wore your blue light blocking glasses during your favorite Nightly Show, and you stopped eating three hours before bedtime. But you still find yourself emerging from bed like a zombie. If that sounds like you listen up. My guest today says there’s one more component to achieving high quality sleep, and it has everything to do with your spine. I’m joined by Dr. Peter Martone. A chiropractor with over 23 years of experience and sleep guru with a passion for improving patient’s biomechanics. He’s also the genius behind the neck nest, a game changing sleep tool that’s on a mission to restore the proper biomechanics of your spine. In just a moment, Dr. mattoni and I will dive deep into the world of spinal health and its ties to your sleep. We’ll discuss why your sleeping position isn’t just a matter of comfort, but a crucial determinant of your health and how the neck nest could be your golden ticket to waking up feeling refreshed and rejuvenated. So stick around we’ll be right back. Have you tried my favorite online healthy marketplace Thrive Market yet? Well if not be prepared to be amazed as Thrive Market offers up to 30% off your favorite health brands conveniently shipped right to your doorstep. It’s time to revolutionize the way you shop. navigating their website and app is a breeze looking for low sugar options following a Keto or gluten free lifestyle Thrive Market as you cover with over 90 values and lifestyles to filter by you’ll discover exactly what works for you. And guess what? I’ve curated my very own list of lectin free products exclusively on their website. But wait there’s more. By joining Thrive Market you become part of a vibrant community of over 1 million members and even sponsor a membership for a family in need. Get convenient high quality affordable groceries delivered with Thrive Market when you join Thrive Market today with my link you’ll get $80 in free groceries that’s T H r i v e market.com/gundry podcast to get $80 in free groceries. Are you ready to boost your longevity do so with the next level in our supplement that’s taking the health world by storm as an exclusive insider to the latest health advancements. I’m thrilled to share this groundbreaking news with my listeners the benefits of nicotinamide right beside and are backed by over 300 scientific studies. But here’s the catch not all in our supplements are created equal. Beware of cheaper untested and our hydrogen malaise flooding the market stick to the real deal and are chloride manufactured in the USA by the renowned pharmaceutical company, Chroma Dex. And guess what ProHealth just launched their game changing in our supplement utilizing the highest FDA cleared dose of nr chloride. And that’s not all ProHealth goes the extra mile by adding TMG trimethyl glycine or betaine to replenish vital methyl groups depleted by nr and other NAD plus boosters. Imagine increasing your NAD plus levels by a whopping 40 to 60%. In just six weeks clinically tested and proven. For an exclusive listener discount and more information, go to pro health.com and use code Gundry that’s pro health.com and use code Gundry. Welcome Dr. Mike Joni. It’s a pleasure to have you on the show. You know we talk a lot about sleep on this show because I believe high quality sleep is one of the most essential aspects of health and longevity. The one thing we haven’t touched on is the relationship between sleep and spinal health. All right, tell us more.
Speaker 3 4:51
Well, thank you it’s an honor to be on the show and and then be exposed to greatness. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I think really to start it really maybe start with my story on how I even got into sleep and perfect. You know, I zigzag here, and I because I didn’t get into the sleep industry to help people get a better night’s sleep. I got in the sleep industry to fix a problem that I was having, for the first 15 years in practice, even up to the age of 35 years old, I had pain in my spine and in my shoulder almost every day in practice, and I just attributed to, you know, I’m a mountain biker, I’m a skier, you know, I’m a pretty competitive athlete. So I’m like, oh, yeah, I’ll do I’ll help my patients with their discomfort, you know, but you know, I’m different. Because, you know, it’s, you know, it’s always a cobblers, kids that have no shoes. So I was getting adjusted. And it wasn’t until over 15 years ago, I was in a little bit of a mountain biking mishap, and I herniated my own disk. So, in the emergency room, my leg is numb. I’m hooked up on Dilaudid. And I’m sitting there not knowing if I’m ever going to practice again, knowing that I’ve been seeing patients and I’m a chiropractor, myself with a herniated disc. I’m like, how did it come to this? So I reviewed over 3,000x Rays because I knew that there was a pattern, I just couldn’t put my finger on it. Review 3,000x rays in found that the problem wasn’t in my back all these years, due to how the you know, everything is connected and do the adaptive response, I ended up with the weakened disc because of forward head posture. And that has a myriad of reactions. And I’ll go into. So next thing, you know, I’m just thinking, I’m like, well, due to the specific laws in the body, like Davis’s law with tissue will remould itself, you know, how can I remove my spine? So I came up with this theory, I can remove it the eight hours that I spent in bed, and that’s what really made me start to focus on becoming a sleep expert.
Dr Gundry 7:06
So once again, physician heal thyself. It was it was
Speaker 3 7:11
a matter of almost life and death for me, right? Yeah, it was, I had to, I had to rise up from the ashes. Because at that point, I was afraid that everything had kind of crashed around me.
Dr Gundry 7:22
You had this issue with your spine, and you’re a chiropractor, and you’re getting adjustments from colleagues. And yet, that wasn’t doing it right.
Speaker 3 7:35
Well, you know, the way that I explained it is like this Chiropractic in our health is basically a pattern of our daily rituals. It’s a daily of what we do on a ritualistic basis. And that’s driven by our belief structure. So you know, my belief is yeah, like, get the spine adjusted, and move it into alignment. And that’s going to everything’s going to be better. Well, now my understanding is, chiropractic is like this, let’s say you have hardened clay, or you take playdough and you you know, take the top off that clay hardens, or chiropractic care is like taking that clay and putting it in water. That makes the clay more moldable. But if you expose the clay to the same mold, you’re just going to have the same patterns. So yes, I was getting adjusted, but it wasn’t doing anything to change my lifestyle patterns, which was still reinforcing the same problems.
Dr Gundry 8:26
I really want to talk and how you came up with this thing. But you know, way back when we didn’t have we didn’t have any mattresses as far as we know. And we probably didn’t have any pillows except maybe our arm or maybe a couple of bunches of leaves or something. What am we apparently did fine. So what how did how did mattresses and pillows evolve? And we see every every day every night on TV, some Mattress Company some pillow company saying wow the key is this and this and this helped us understand this because you’re
Speaker 3 9:11
so Chris. So pillows and mattresses right are designed for comfort in support. They don’t they’re not in you’re comfortable in supported in positions that are unsustainable. See, the body tosses and turns for three reasons. First, because it’s too warm temperature regulation. Three, because it feels the need for safety. So if a door is open or you feel like you’re going to be attacked, you bought you need to create a safe space in the third reason is because it’s in pain or it’s uncomfortable. So the way that I it the way that I challenge my patients or people that I mean obviously I’m speaking to hundreds of 1000s of different people and the way they challenge us say try to fall asleep, try to watch a two hour movie in the position you fall asleep. And it’s not possible because that position is not sustainable, the average person will toss and turn 40 times a night. So you may think you’re sleeping on your side, but every 15 to 20 minutes, your body is going to toss and turn in, you are not in control, you’re only going to be in control of when you fall asleep. So what I teach my patients is fall asleep in an aligned position. And then the lung, you’re in that position over a period of time, like clay remoulding, you’re going to change the structure of your spine,
Dr Gundry 10:40
convince me that the modern pillow and mattress is probably a really bad design to align your spine.
Speaker 3 10:47
So well, alignment doesn’t come from the base alignment comes from the position. So the spine control, the nervous system controls everything in the human body. So my anchor is making sure that nervous system functions optimally. I have been doing Heart Rate Variability studies on my patients for 20 years, right. And I was always trying to improve the function of the vagus nerve. And, you know, Ross house, I don’t know if you know who he is. But he does a lot of study on loss of the cervical curve. And the neck I interviewed with him soon, but it loss of the cervical curve in the neck affecting the function of the vagus nerve. So the only way to do that is to keep yourself tucked in like this to tuck your chin. So what we want to do is we want to look at the structure of a spine, right, we want to have this curve in the neck. And a pillow defined is a support for your head. So when you sleep on your back, or on your sidewalk, you can’t support the head. Because what you’re going to do is you’re going to tuck the chin. So the anesthesiologist did a study, I can’t remember where it was. But they look at head angle, and airway in the in the opening up your airway. If you use a pillow that the thicker the pillow becomes even if it’s a flat pillow, it’s going to close down your airway, because it’s tucking your chin up that over a period of time, you’re going to reverse the curve in the neck, just by sleeping in the wrong position.
Dr Gundry 12:30
Gotcha. You bring on part rare heart rate variability. So what what have your findings be, and most people watching the show know about heart rate variability. And in general, folks, the higher your heart rate variability, the better. And the lower your heart rate variability, though worse and long ago, I did a study looking at people who actually might need defibrillator is in their heart for dying. And we found that there was a very strong correlation between heart rate variability, low heart rate variability and bad heart function. So yeah, I’m a strong believer because I did a study on it. So what did you find about the neck and the posture of sleeping and heart rate variability,
Speaker 3 13:23
so to explain that just a little for the group, heart rate variability is a balance between the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system, the more so if you’re going to go for a run, your body is going to become more sympathetic, which is in that survival state. So your heart rate needs to be very regular, right? Because the blood the the, the muscles need to depend on regular blood and nutrients. Well, in contrast to that, the parasympathetic nervous system, when you’re more relaxed, the there’s a lot more variability to the pulse, it’s not a regular heart rate, which means every you know, if it’s a 60 beats per minute, every second, you don’t get a beat, it varies. So you’re ready for anything. So the parasympathetic or relaxed system, where you’re ready for anything as a more rested system, because you’re not sympathetic, dominant, a sympathetic dominant state suppresses three areas, immune system, digestive system and reproductive system, because that’s all controlled by the parasympathetic nervous system. So what we find is when we get somebody into the position that we want them in, we keep them in that position for one to two hours a night. And then they improve the structure of their spine. They improve their heart rate variability by up to 30% by doing nothing at night by just changing their own position. And it is, it’s been a game changer to be able to see so I was trying I got into this world because I was trying to fix spines to allow people to become less pain to get out of pain. Now just seeing the benefits of what it’s been doing heart rate variability, overall health, getting rid of immune system issues because the vagus nerve is functioning more effectively, it’s been amazing.
Dr Gundry 15:09
Just yesterday, I saw a patient who has very low, he wears an aura ring. And he has very low deep sleep. And he actually has very low heart rate variability. And it’s kind of a chronic problem for him. And we’ve done all these tricks. And are you saying, I’m putting you on the spot here, that if I got his neck and spine into alignment during sleep, that we’d probably see a change? How old is that page, he’s he’s actually 76 years old, but a very vigorous, 76 year old.
Speaker 3 15:52
So 76 year old is going to have it depends if they’re right or left handed, but they’re gonna more than likely have have have twisted an ankle. So this is how everything’s connected. Because I can see looking at you that you have an issue because you hold your head to one side. So I can tell that you sleep on one side, and you specifically sprained your right ankle. So you’re not going to be able to turn your head as far to the left side, because the Atlas is going to shift to the side of handedness and typically a sprained ankle. So when you have Atlas lateral rally that occurs due to forward head posture that affects the vagus nerve, which tanks, your heart rate variability. So so what I was actually talking to Dr. Mercola, about is I do not believe there’s a combination that everybody is just sympathetic dominant, I believe that parasympathetic inhibited due to the loss of cervical structure and their neck, affecting that nerve behind me, cell phones. Oh, yeah. Okay, so, so then so, so body posture, adjust to head position. So that’s the righting reflex. So the more I call that the modern day lifestyle, the more that we are texting, the more that we’re on computers in we’re reinforcing that at night, because we want to feel protected, curled up in a ball, you’re restructuring that spine is called EC neck. And it’s a loss of cervical curve, because we’re always on our technology. I have seen 10 year olds with Phase One degenerative changes now than we ever used to before because of all the cell phone use.
Dr Gundry 17:27
All right, so let’s, let’s talk about sleeping position, there’s actually from a cardiovascular standpoint, there’s some argument to be made, that sleeping on your side, is actually a pretty doggone good idea. But I bet you’re, you’re going to tell me that in terms of my spine alignment, that’s a really bad idea.
Speaker 3 17:52
It all depends on what we’re using for our anchor. And my anchor is right when we do research is what do you what do you take as information or what do you what do you not looking at as variables? My anchor is that the nervous system controls everything in the human body, and the structure of your spine plays a significant role in maintaining the health and well being of that nervous system. So if you break down the structure, it doesn’t matter how healthy the heart is, the heart is going to dysfunction, and it’s going to throw the body into chaos. Now, there’s a gold standard, we have a study that people typically they they talk about where they talk about glymphatic drainage and in on your side, while that study, because you know, is done on rats. And the rat structure is such where the curve is completely different in their cervical spine. And the way that it came up with a lot of this positioning is I said that the body needs to be in a position where the weight is distributed over the greatest surface area. The greatest surface area in a rack is on its side, the greatest surface surface here and a human is on their back. So when you I had shoulder impingement syndrome for years, I had hip issue when I had that back issue. That’s because I was sleeping, twisted. And after 20 minutes, I twist to the other side and twist to the other side. So we’re twisting our spines, breaking down the structure affecting the health of the nervous system, which I believe affects everything. So my anchor is protecting the spine, at least for the first one to two hours at night. People are going to have issues with airways that they’re going to have to manage and different things. But set your body up for one to two hours a night. Then whatever you do in the middle of the night, do it in the middle of the night. But at least you’re going to get one to two hours reversing of the day. damaging effect of being on that phone all day long.
Dr Gundry 20:02
Now wait a minute, you’re so you’re a chiropractor, and you you apparently knew these things. And yet you’re sleeping on your side and you’ve got all these joint issues, back issues, etc. What and I realized that the wake up call was, you know, rupturing a disk, and that certainly gets your attention. Particularly for chiropractor. It’s like a heart surgery and having a heart attack. Luckily, that hasn’t happened. So what made you reassess, you know, your knowledge base and say, Okay, how did I get this so wrong? And here’s what I should have done. Or here’s what I found out,
Speaker 3 20:44
because I got my ass handed to me at Harvard Medical School when I was giving continuing education credits to at Mass General. So here’s my deal. I, when I was the first chiropractor ever, they wanted chiropractic to be, you know, some this was three years out in a member, life leaves, breadcrumbs. So they wanted a, they wanted a car, they want a chiropractor, talk about chiropractic. Then they started asking me these questions. I was strong on chiropractic. And then I tried to speak into a medical world that, you know, because I just came out of diagnosis I thought I knew got my ass handed to me on a silver platter, right. So I learned a big lesson there. I said, I need to base my information on law. Law is such that gravity, you drop something, you cannot deny that that’s going to hit the floor. So when I when I speak, and I speak in practice, I applied things to law. There’s three laws that I use, I use the righting reflex, which states this is the law. If somebody has a hip misalignment, it’s due to head position, body posture, adjust to head position. And they started realizing all those short legs and leg length discrepancies. That’s all coming from Poland head posture, because the body is adapting to that law. Number two, Davis’s law, tissue will remould based on this, the forces that are applied in the direction that the forces are applied and Wolff’s law, Poland will restructure based on the stresses that are applied. So if tense you can remote, in bone will remote in body posture adjusted head position. And I know these are our laws, how can I apply that to help myself? So I started to apply these laws, the way the body works that I know not, they don’t teach you this, and you’ll learn the laws. But nobody ever applies the laws. So I put those three specific laws together to come up with my entire sleep protocol.
Dr Gundry 22:49
And at all, and it all starts with the neck.
Speaker 3 22:54
body posture, just a head position, what controls everything in the human body, the brain, and then it stems from there down.
Dr Gundry 23:00
Do you had mentioned that you learned an important lesson from a movie scene about weight distribution during sleep? What the heck is that?
Speaker 3 23:11
So like I said, Things life leaves bread bread crumbs. So we talked about like, you know, I use an essential mattress, right? Love the mattress. I use a necklace for my pillow, right? But when I watched this is now but in watching that movie, it was Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and the 1500s. They were sleeping on the floor. In their neck, they had a block of wood for there. And I’m sitting there I’m like, wait a second. That’s not a pillow. That’s a corrective. active device, sleep. And that’s when I kind of started putting stuff together Holy mackerel, if the pillow defined as a support from my head, it hasn’t evolved over the last couple of 100 years. And our lifestyles evolved. Because we’re sitting in front of our computer all day, I need to create and make something different, almost like rolling up a towel and stick it under your neck. Focus on the structure of the neck, put the body into a neutral sleeping position where your weight is distributed over the greatest surface area. In F I have that I’m 50 years old, I have less pain than I did when I was 35. I can fall asleep with a glass of water on my chest and it will still be there. I don’t toss and turn. I don’t move. And my sleep scores are out of this world because I get restful night’s sleep. And my heart rate variability, which I was unable to get my deep sleep scores up are through the roof.
Dr Gundry 24:44
All right, you’re making a convincing argument. Now.
Unknown Speaker 24:49
It’s just based on experience. Right?
Dr Gundry 24:51
And, you know, and I see patients six days a week and you know, when I say something, it’s based on you know, 25 years Looking at these folks blood work and how they feel every three months and going, hey, you know what to do together, it makes for before we really get in to the, the appliance that you invented, fix this, I want to I want to go back for one second a lot of people, I’m, I’m a heart surgeon and a thoracic surgeon, I, I operate on the esophagus, I operate on people who have GERD, heartburn, reflux. And one of our teachings in general is the last thing I want in a patient with GERD is number one have the meat near the time of bed, obviously. And number two, I want you actually over on your left hand side, and I don’t want you on your back, because it it’s the perfect way. If you’re going to have GERD do this, what say you
Speaker 3 25:58
so that, so now what happens is we’re we’re in the rabbit hole, right, because you’re at a myriad of symptoms that have gotten you to that point that you need intervention. So the body has what’s called a limitation to matter, limitation of matter is such that, that the, if I cut off my arm, you can’t take the arm and put it back, there’s a limitation to what the body can heal from. So I believe the cause of all of these things is that loss of cervical curve, most people that are in so I would almost guarantee, if you X ray, that person, cervical spine, they’re gonna have degeneration at C five c six, and that Atlas scope is going to be shifted how long that has happened for or how long that’s occurred for, that’s going to be an issue. So what I would do in a situation like that, is I wouldn’t abandon the back sleeping position, or the neutral sleeping position to at least be in it for one hour. Because if you get away from it completely just going to keep complicating the problems and drive it deeper, I would say stay in that position for an hour and night but not flat, you need to be elevated by eight degrees, maybe a 10 degree sleeping angle. And I can demonstrate that when we kind of get into positioning, but there are ways to be able to manage that esophagus effectively. And, and not in not affect your entire sleep cycle. So every once in a while, maybe once a year or twice a year, I go against my gut and I have peanuts, I love peanuts, but it always and I have them that night. I don’t know why I know what it’s going to do it I mean, it’s going to give me acid, I’m going to wake up and I’m going to take a knife and stab it right through my stomach. Guess what I’m going to do at that point, I’m going to turn to my side, there’s no way I’m going to stay on my back because you know, it just keeps keeps hammering it. So what I’m talking about was how I believe the world should have started out learning how to sleep from the very beginning, there are problems when the system has broken down to such a level as you know, Naki like you and me, then, you know, you want to start by using stretching it back. But it might not be the best position for you at the beginning. Now, you
Dr Gundry 28:11
mentioned something just a second ago. Okay, so we’ve got this, quote, older person who clearly has some degeneration in C five, six. And you know, and you can see it on an x ray, you know that it’s there, if you admit it, because people can feel it? Is it? Is it ever too late to remodel your spine, or, you know, I’m done for that’s what I am,
Speaker 3 28:43
you know, the problem is, is when you lose the cervical spine, you’re going to pick up a scoliosis and a low back due to the adaptive so last major muscle spasm that occurs that was in them. So acid is the only muscle in the human body that attaches directly to a disc. That’s what we can mind this. That’s the protocol I came up with. So when you first when you start and you have degeneration, you start sleeping on your back, you’re going to end up with back pain also. It’s so so what I tell people is this, that positioning where you’re lying in that stretched out position where things are unwinding. It’s a great position for everybody. Should everybody start flat on your back in that position? The answer is no. That’s why we have our online coaching programs and and I want people to understand a tiptoe way approach into it. Just like somebody that has a fallen arch and they put an arch support and you don’t want to use that arch all day long and you’re going to destroy everything else. Or people that have hip surgeries, their spines turn into a mess because everything adapts together but tissue is re moldable the harder the clay, the tougher it is for that tissue to remould. So you have to be a lot more patients, but I have my oldest patient on a necklace is 103. And so, so she’s able to be on an agonist and not not me are asleep sleep inefficient but she’s still a side sleeper, but you know, just start in one position and then you roll over that’s fine at least start with the end in mind versus, you know, starting with tossing and turning in money to
Dr Gundry 30:25
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Speaker 3 33:52
work? Through the righting reflex. What happens is with the neck next is designed to do over a period of time is improve the structure so that you take out the rotation in you improve the function in the integrity of the nervous system. That is what the neck neck does.
Dr Gundry 34:11
Alright, so I mean, this is good to hear. Because you’re saying that really the positioning for the first few hours of sleep is going to make all the difference in the world and you’re not. You’re not saying oh my gosh, you got to sleep on your back the entire night and you have to have the neck nose under your neck the entire night. Good because I actually have a staff member who has your neck nurse and she’s trying to adapt and she finds herself on her side and she she we talked actually yesterday says I’m a failure because I am a failure and please He’s asked the good doctor, oh, why she’s a failure,
Speaker 3 35:04
we have 10s of 1000s of different people we’ve worked with. And the so the body works on consistency, right? One of the problems with sleep is that you’re not you can’t conscious, we all want to consciously control something. So so that’s why people can’t get to sleep because they try to think themselves asleep, you can’t, you got to remember yourself to sleep, you have to put the blood in a totally different part of the brain. So we but we want to control something all the time. But when you fall asleep, you’re not in control. So, so most of the people, most people get the positioning wrong, they don’t get that angle correct with the neck nests. So I’d have a go to the website. And it also takes it’s like, I mean, this thing, they think, Oh, it loses its, it loses its support, when it breaks in is actually when it works the test, you’re really trying to support three inches from the neck down to the base of the bed, it should condense all the way I use so many different fields that come up with that. So the lifestyle habit is this, you get the positioning of the neck nests Correct. You fall asleep with that, whether you last a half an hour, 45 minutes an hour, that’s it, you over a period of time, just focus on the first 45 minutes of your sleep, and your body will do the rest over time, be patient, it takes a long time to change. There are certain there are very different variables for everybody. But the goal is beginning with the end in mind, begin with your structure in mind, begin with the anchor that your body posture adjust to your head position, you don’t have posture issues, you haven’t had alignment issues. And then you know, a good thing is for people to work on their balance after they’re doing this for a period of time.
Dr Gundry 36:53
You bring up a very good point. Many people as they age, balance becomes one of their major complaints. Help us out what’s going on what’s going wrong?
Speaker 3 37:09
Oh boy, this is this is big. So you’re gonna have men?
Dr Gundry 37:15
Oh, I’m sorry, I actually mentioned this because, no, this is good, because it’s something I see all the time in my patients.
Speaker 3 37:24
So you want to you want to know if somebody has an atrophied prefrontal cortex, just watch the way they walk, right. And so here’s the deal. And people with ADHD are cross dominant people right handed left footed, they’re going to have more of an issue with this because they have an issue with a corpus callosum in the brain, which is the right and the left side communicating. So here’s the deal. There’s something in the brain called the Vermis. The Vermis in the brain, it one of its major functions, is to build the prefrontal cortex. What builds the Vermis is something that’s called proprioception, which is your awareness in space. So when you atrophy, the Vermis, you’re going to atrophy, the prefrontal cortex. And you’re going to start losing your balance 80% of all of the proprioceptive signals up into the brain into the Vermis come from the spine, and the majority of them come from the cervical spine. So when you see somebody and they and they have really bad balance, they have significant loss of this cervical rotation from left to right. So as we age part of the aging process has scar tissue. Scar tissue restricts movement, you restrict movement, you’re going to decrease proprioceptive signals into the Vermis ruin your balance and then forget your marble so you’re going to lose your marbles. So one of the major ways to be able to improve the structure and function of the brain and integrity of the prefrontal cortex in your, in your balance is improve the cervical curve, improve rotation and work on balance on a regular basis. Like it’s the only exercise that you do by yourself. And it’s easy get a wobble board, use a wobble disc, but challenge your brain to stay out of pain is what I tell my patients
Dr Gundry 39:26
are there other things that you can so So wait a minute, all right, so I can’t move my neck as much as my wife can. And I’m convinced that I can’t move my neck as much as my wife can goes I’ve got some spinal issues and there’s scar tissue in there. How the heck do I get to move my neck more does she
Speaker 3 39:55
would love to go to a professional a chiropractor in your area, right go to a Chiropractor make sure that you have X rays taken, see what the degeneration looks like. Because here’s the deal, most of the damage in people’s spines where you’re going to have the damage of C five, C six, that controls flexion. And extension. The issue typically with 80% of all the rotation is is Atlas c one, c two and occiput. So that’s where you normally don’t degenerate Atlas C two. And that’s true. So so so by adjusting that area, you can get a significant if I had a patient come in today, who had I had the lot, so lost 70% of their range of motion to the left side, just to their Atlas, they almost got all of their range of motion back, they’re not going to keep that range of motion, because the tissue is going to remote, it’s going to be lateralized. But as long as you’re, you’re getting that adjusted, you’re stimulating that proprioceptive sense, immediately, you’re going to improve your balance.
Dr Gundry 40:59
So the neck ness is cool. And it forces you into the position you want. Are there other things that you can do to facilitate that positioning during the day? Getting ready for sleep? You got some tricks that you send people home with?
Speaker 3 41:22
Yeah, so one of the biggest thing is, is member law, right? We go back to law, body posture, adjust to head position, raise your monitors at work, right? We’re all looking down, because because of COVID, everybody at home on their little laptops that is destroyed. That is it. Do you have headaches, because you know in at home at your workstation, you don’t have met at work, it’s because you’re down curled up in a little ball, get an extension monitor, lift the monitors up your body posture just to head position, you want to be looking slightly above eye level up at the monitor, if you notice, when I’m doing this, I’m looking up at it because if I’m looking down, I can, it’s so bad. So I have people do that. Really, as far as the positioning at night, I think it’s really important to know that you can use a three pillow system and you can tell your this is a really cheap, ineffective way to do it. So you can take a pillow, put it at the back of the bed, take a pillow, put it in the front of the bed, in a sense, what I’m doing right there, as I’m creating like this little elevated surface, like a roll up towel, a neck NAS something and then sleep starting off in this position because I’m not flat, but I’m elevated. That’s not going to put as much tension on the ligaments, and it’s going to be an easier transition to be able to get to learn how to sleep on your back. Now another question.
Dr Gundry 43:02
You see, let’s see people say, Well, when you’re at work, you ought to use one of these kneeling chairs or you want to sit on a ball, because that’ll that’ll help your spine is there. I personally sit on a ball when I’m seeing patients. And I have for years. So is that just a bunch of silliness? Or is there science behind it.
Speaker 3 43:29
If I want the the quickest way to D generate the joint to generate the brain is don’t use it, put the arm in a cast, that’s Ultimate Support, lie down. If you don’t use it, you lose it, if you don’t use your body, you’re going to atrophy your money. So if I want to, if I want to lose the joint, I’m going to immobilize it with a cast over a period of time that joint will atrophy. So So support makes the body weaker. I don’t care what it is a sneakers a support, it makes the body weaker. You take thyroid it because you have a thyroid issue, you’re going to make the thyroid weaker, because you’re going to depend on the support. Whenever you you know, whatever you support the body, you’re going to, you’re going to make that area weaker. Well, when you use a chair with a lot of support, you’re making your back weaker. So when you end you’re going to atrophy the brain to that level of weakness. So when you use something like a ball that requires your your stabilized muscles in your core to engage, you’re stimulating proprioception and you’re strengthening the brain you’re doing the opposite. So whenever you want, whenever you find weakness in the body or poor posture, you’ve lost, you’re doing something you’re sitting too much you’re sitting in the wrong chair. So even though it’s difficult to go from a regular chair to a call it way better for you.
Dr Gundry 44:58
Okay, you know you made me think It was something I was a boy scout and did a lot of camping. And we, we had, we had a sleeping bag, but we clearly did not have a mattress. And we did not have a pillow. And so believe it or not, we slept really good on the ground. Really good. And I suspect our ancestors slept really good on the ground. And we didn’t we if anything had a rolled up knapsack or a rolled up a piece of rolled up newspaper that we put under the back of our neck. Maybe we were on to something.
Speaker 3 45:41
Well, when I was camping, I used to use a sneaker under my end of my neck to get back there. So yeah, that’s, it’s all of those breadcrumbs that made me come up with well, I Heck, I think the world’s sleeping wrong. So our mission is to change the way the world sleeps. To awaken to a well line more well rested potential.
Dr Gundry 46:02
So asleep. Speaking of sleeping wrong, not a day goes by that we don’t see some Mattress Company advertising that their mattress is the key to great sleep, whether it’s a foam or a cooling mattress, or, you know, adjustable bed. How, where does all that fit in this? Or is it just as simple as getting your dumb neck aligned?
Speaker 3 46:32
Well, if you get the, if you get the positioning correct, the base becomes a little less important, right? Because remember, we’re making beds more comfortable to try to keep us in poor positions, which is causing destruction in US fine. So I like you know, so So for instance, latex mattress, non toxic, right, because I like to decrease toxins within my environment also. So a lot of these foams and stuff have off gases and, and I just don’t want my body dealing with that at night. So you know, like I said, like a essentially a mattress that is non toxic, or it’s latex. I like bendable. I like mattresses, that Ben because I’m a firm believer, some days I mountain bike, I tweaked something, I’ll sleep elevated, then some days I’ll sleep flat, I’ve moved my bed all the time, I think elevated sleeping and being able to change, you know, changes sleeping angles, is I think that’s brilliant. So I love the bit I love the latex beds that bent. And and, and that’s really kind of where I go with that. But once you get the positioning correct, the body will do the rest in the middle of night. And a lot of times my patients will come in, they’re like I hate my mattress, I’m like, put a sleep topper on it. Just don’t throw it down the tubes yet, distribute your weight a little bit more over a greater surface area, decrease your pressure points, because one of the reasons we wake up remember pain, temperature and safety. So if we can decrease the amount of pain you’re in at night, by by putting a down comforter or something thick on to that you can save mattresses and save yourself 1000s
Dr Gundry 48:17
That reminds me a very good point, it’s very difficult to sleep on your side on the ground. Because you’re, you know, your your hip hurts, your shoulder hurts. Wherever these pressure points that aren’t really relieved. And your right sleeping on the ground. You basically have to sleep on your back. You’re on to something.
Speaker 3 48:45
Thanks, doc. It’s it’s been a passion of mine for the last seven years to get the messaging down. So it’s so people can absorb it. Right? You know, you go to just help people you just sleep on your back. They’re like, what are you crazy, you’re nuts. But once you start to see you know, where the anchors are and what we’re trying to create. And it’s not, you know, don’t do it all at the same time. You only need to do one hour or one and a half hours, two hours on your back. It’s a game changer for the structure. And it’s going to save. It’s going to it when people start getting this right. Disease I believe in well, USA across the world is going to get it’s going to become much less
Dr Gundry 49:24
final question. If you go to sleep on your back in the right position on your back. Will you stay in that position for a while? I mean, is that is that predictable that somebody will stay for that way for an hour or two before they start moving around?
Speaker 3 49:46
So now this is my my ethical lie. When I tell you it’s only one hour that you’re going to stay I know based on doing that for days and days out Months and months out. Eventually, you’re gonna stop tossing and turning. You’ll fall asleep. Seven hours later you wake up and you won’t you won’t have moved. Yeah. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing.
Dr Gundry 50:12
But that doesn’t happen overnight. It’s what you’re saying.
Speaker 3 50:16
I want people to little chunks, little itty bitty chunks. And ultimately your body is going to put you into the position that it’s most comfortable in. So if somebody says, Oh, yeah, yeah, no, this isn’t good. For me, that’s not good for me, let your body decide because you’re not in control, pull your consciousness out of it, work with law and just try it. In then over a period of time, your body is going to let you know if it’s bad or not. You fall asleep on your side, you have too much alcohol and you decrease the pain response, you’re going to wake up and you’re not going to be able to move around. Is that a good position for you to be in? Oh, yeah, it’s a great position for me to be in. There’s no way you can’t sustain that. So that’s kind of where I come.
Dr Gundry 50:59
All right. Well, Dr. Mark, Tony, this has been very insightful and fun. Before I let you go, is there anything else you want to share with the listeners? Or what are you working on next? I mean, a guy like you, obviously is not gonna be satisfied with just getting the word out. What’s what’s next.
Speaker 3 51:18
So I’m working on a few different different patterns to do different things. Right, I think that I love the weight, right on the chest, and working with different things that apply weight and specific areas, I’m working with different things that to improve that heart rate variability, you know, different tapping techniques and stuff like that, working on a specific wobble board that has different levels to improve proprioception. And then it’s, it’s fun, because once you see it, right, and it’s almost like Neo in the Matrix, you can look through o’s and zeros, and you just see things that that you want, that you see needs and, and disease and infirmary, the people around you, and you know, that you can help. So I’m trying to create new things and, and be very innovative. And, and we haven’t a platform, so we have a sleep community, and and the sleep community, I’m going to be testing this, they’re going to be able to wear wearables, it’s going to it’s going to going to get 1000s and 1000s of people’s data, have everybody changed something in a challenge, and I’ll be able to analyze with AI, what what those changes are making real time and just be able to see and test theories on a larger scale. So that’s kind of that’s the geeky stuff that I’m working on.
Dr Gundry 52:37
So where can people you know, learn about you and get their own NEC nest.
Speaker 3 52:43
Yeah, that’s great. They can go to NEC nests.com, backslash, Gundry, if they go there, they’ll have two options, they can get a neck nest alone, or they can get an NEC nest with our education. And it’ll, I don’t want to sell products, I want to sell transformation. So I love I’m a teacher like you, right doctor means teacher, I want to teach I want to educate, I’m out here to change lives. And, and it’s in it’s through these processes, and through my own hardships and infirmary and, and you know, in pain and working with, you know, 1000s and 1000s of different patients, we put things together and now it’s time for me to go share. So that’s act two, and I really appreciate you your trust in what we’re doing. And, and I know that you really, you know, you’re you’re passionate about what you do, and, and the impact that you’re making. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s impressive. Thank you for having me.
Dr Gundry 53:44
Our pleasure thing is this is really this is something that people you know, we there’s all these things that factor in I think this is a weave, your you’re the first chiropractor that I’ve had on the show, and believe me, I have great respect for the chiropractic community. You guys were actually were way ahead of the curve far, far ahead of allopathic medicine. And it was fun actually reading the chiropractic literature. When I first got into all this alternative medicine were horrible word. I call it restorative medicine. And I think that’s exactly what you do. You’re, you’re restoring the function of the spine. So yeah, keep that in mind. Yeah, we
Speaker 3 54:35
call it corrective sleep therapy, using the eight hours in bed doing nothing to create change. I mean, what’s more powerful?
Dr Gundry 54:44
Exactly. Thanks for being on the program and good luck with this. We may have to have you back again to talk about all this crazy stuff. And crazy folks, that’s why I had him on.
Speaker 3 54:56
That’s great. I’m not so I’m not gonna lie to you. It’s okay but the nuts is what changes the world. Thank you so much. You’re right.
Dr Gundry 55:02
All right, take care.
Speaker 4 55:06
Hey, this is Dr. Drew, and I’d like to invite all of you to subscribe to the Dr. Drew podcast. We are very proud of what we’re doing there at that podcast. I am interviewing some of the most interesting people you could ever want to talk to. Just whatever I find fascinating, whether as a smart person or an expert in a field that I’m interested in, or maybe I’m not even interested in. I’m only interested because I’ve heard them speak and become intrigued. I think you’ll be intrigued as well. We get deep into topics that are quite important to the current age. Things like cognitive dissonance, cognitive distortions, how does our mind work? We talk about everything at the dark through podcast, it is a real relevance. We get all the way into deep physics and all sorts of stuff. But trust me, it’s all very accessible. It’s very interesting headaches. If you’re even interested in learning about headaches, we get there. We go to the interesting topics of the day. Please join us at the Dr. Drew podcast.
Dr Gundry 56:01
All right, it’s time for the audience. Question. JP on YouTube asks, What about Moringa for a plant based protein? Well, that’s a great question. I actually like Moringa. It is a very useful plant based protein. There are several other really good plant based proteins and I’m fond of like spirulina, like hemp, just to name two. But Moringa works really well. And so have your Moringa. And now it’s time for the review of the week, Lee Johnson watched my video titled The eight foods you need to throw out as soon as possible. She said, the reason I look and feel a lot younger than my age is because I’m picky about what I eat and drink and don’t eat any of those eight foods. My health is very important to me. Dr. Gundry knows what he’s talking about. And I’m thankful I found his channel. Well, thanks a lot, Lee. I’m glad you don’t eat those eight foods. Quite frankly, that’s probably why you look and feel quite young. And you know, Thanks for writing in and affirming that, once again, I’ve got no dog in this fight. I’m giving you information based now on 25 years of studying my patients, asking them to eat certain foods, get rid of certain foods, take certain supplements don’t take certain supplements. And you know, I’m trying to give you the best of my ability, what I’ve learned. And believe it or not, I changed my mind based on new information that I acquire often from my patients. But it’s great to hear someone say You know what, those eight foods that you mentioned, that’s one of the keys to my good health. And just thanks for confirming that. So that’s it for today. You know why I do this? Because I’m Dr. Gundry. And I’m always looking out for you.
Speaker 1 58:16
I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Dr. Gundry podcast. If you did please share this with family and friends. You never know how one of these health tips can completely transform someone’s life when you take the time to share it with them. There’s also the Dr. Gundry podcast YouTube channel where we have 10s of 1000s of free health insights that can help you and your loved ones live a long bicycle life.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
