Speaker 1 0:00
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast, where Dr. Steven Gundry shares his groundbreaking research from over 25 years of treating patients with diet and lifestyle changes alone. Dr. Gundry and other wellness experts offer inspiring stories, the latest scientific advancements and practical tips to empower you to take control of your health and live a long happy life.
Speaker 2 0:23
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. You know, I’m all about sharing the latest and greatest when it comes to optimizing your gut health. Because let’s face it, nothing beats a healthy gut. That’s why today I’m thrilled to welcome back a familiar face to our show. John E, the co founder and CFO at pendulum therapeutics. One of my go to companies for innovative gut health supplements. Now, if you’ve been with us before, you’ll remember John from our discussions on the benefits of Ackermann Sia, my favorite gut buddy, today, he’s back with exciting new findings on this powerful bacteria and so much more. After our quick very, we’ll unpack GLP one, and all star hormone when it comes to supporting your health, and you probably heard a lot about it in commercials and on the internet, with things that you happen to inject yourself with. But I won’t go there. But how you can actually produce more GLP one with a little help. And of course, we’ll get an exclusive sneak peek into pendulums, groundbreaking new solutions, and how they could help when it comes to uncomfortable digestion, unhealthy cravings and so much more. So stick around. We’ll be right back. You don’t want to miss this. What the heck is GLP? One?
Speaker 3 1:57
Yes, GLP. One, it’s all the craze now. Right? It’s an incretin hormone. So that’s a fancy way of saying it’s a gut hormone that helps your body deal with the nutrient load that your body, you know, takes in. And one of the primary ways it does that is it promotes insulin secretion. So this is super important, because then it enables your body to get rid of the sugar from the bloodstream and move it to where it’s needed, which is to power up your cells.
Speaker 2 2:28
And so this is something this this hormone is something that we would normally produce and should normally produce are there. And we now know that this hormone among other things, is used for weight loss, it was not the original intention of synthesizing this hormone. And I live in the LA area. And I think every human being seems to be on this drug for mostly bad reasons. But vana D would be the number one. A lot of people who use this drug, notice that one of the major side effects is they are not hungry. And sometimes they are still not hungry. They walk around, nauseated and that apparently is a good thing. So why is what we eat Purdue’s maybe better than these pharmacologic solutions? Yeah,
Speaker 3 3:36
I mean, I guess I would just Yes, separate entirely, right, like a pharmacological solution, you should use it if you’ve got pharmacological reasons, you know, for for that. So definitely, kind of using it outside of that is not really a good idea, because the levels of concentrations and so on that those are intended for, or just a different scale. And what we’re talking about here, kind of your body’s natural production of it. It’s more about getting your system more into natural balance and having your systems appropriate response when you eat a meal. So it’s more akin to, you know, the benefits of having a well balanced meal with the right nutrients. Right. There’s that aspect of it is kind of well understood by people. But the microbiome aspect is kind of works hand in hand so you can have the well balanced, nutritious meal. But if your microbiome isn’t predisposed to handle it appropriately, you’re not going to be optimal on that front. You’re not going to be balanced. But yeah, GLP one, the natural levels of it, it helps as I said, on on insulin secretion but also to your point on satiety. So you know, and for the natural levels, it just will help you get comfortable more quickly. So you don’t, you know, ingest more than you need, right. And another area that it helps with is actually on a slowing down gastric emptying. And what that means is that as opposed to having all of the contents of your stomach kind of, you know, dumped into the rest of your system all in one shot, which results in these high spikes, it does it in a more metered way. And so if all of that is working as intended, then your meals will not be kind of this rocky affair kind of roller coaster, it will end up being much more, much smoother, resulting in kind of better, better energy in not having the lows or the highs.
Speaker 2 5:45
So we know we’ve talked about SEO a lot and how that particular bug is, to me, it’s always been the Holy Grail. It’s one of the, I think, Cornerstone species of health. And I been fascinated with it. And butyrate production and promoting butyrate producing species, how is this different? Are they tied together? Or you gotta have both? Why did you guys say, hey, GLP one is something else we should be looking?
Speaker 3 6:23
Yeah, that’s a really great question. And this actually, I mean, ties, I think for, you know, with what the theme for for our discussion today, which is the way that these systems work together. It’s a GLP. One is the signaling done by your cells. But then, you know, akkermansia, and these butyrate producers, as we talked about, you know, last time, as your listeners probably know about, they produce these very helpful post biotics things like the short chain fatty acids, like butyrate. But we’ll talk about other other things as well. And what they do is that they help your cells function better. So butyrate, for example, is an energy source for the cells in your gut lining. And then they they then the in turn, signal yourselves to do their signaling. So the two systems kind of work hand in hand. So it’s not kind of one or the other, but rather, the two things together, lead to the optimal outcomes.
Speaker 2 7:22
You know, again, the advertisements have been aimed at diabetics, a lot of these pharmaceutical drugs were aimed at diabetics. And the side effects were noted, our listeners who are not a diabetic or who aren’t pre diabetic, why would that be of interest to you and me to, you know, have better insulin control, have less cravings, etc?
Speaker 3 7:49
Yeah, exactly. I mean, so this is why it’s important to think about this kind of more as the the natural system and how its intended. And, you know, every meal can end up being, you know, kind of a much sharper, almost joyride versus a smoother transition, right. And if your meals are well balanced, and if your microbiome is tuned up, then you’ll kind of avoid I mean, my analogy is you don’t want to be on you know, kind of the jolting seesaw, right, where you crash at the bottom and you like, come up off your seat at the top. You want things to be kind of this time. And range is something that people talk about, especially those who use continuous glucose monitors and things like that. So you don’t want to be very often either too low or too high, but in the band as as often as possible. And if you do that, that helps your overall health. Basically, shocks to the system are just not good overall, and they don’t put you in a good in a good space.
Speaker 2 8:59
Where’s the research now? Acrobat SEO, for example, in facilitate,
Speaker 3 9:06
yeah, so that’s been one of the areas that was really interesting. A couple years ago, there was this paper that came out in nature microbiology from a Korean lab that delved into ackermans his role with the signaling with your body’s GLP one. So they had a preclinical model and they show that in that model, necromancy was protective of minimising weight gain and reducing the sugar spikes. And they delved in even more than that, and actually showed that there is a specific protein that viable metabolically active akkermansia produces and they termed it p nine, and that this p nine, in turn, interacted with the specialized cells in your gut these l cells and induce them to produce GLP one, these cells are the ones that are the gatekeepers for GLP one production And so that was very exciting. And we, here pendulum reproduced, you know their in vitro model and demonstrated that in this model of L cells that we when we put in at the necromancy of post biotics from our strain under manufacturing conditions, we were also able to replicate that. So that was super exciting. So I think there is a direct link now with akkermansia on helping to maintain kind of your healthy response to food intake.
Speaker 2 10:31
You know, we talked about before you have a product called glucose control that combines multiple strings, including your record. And you’ve shown in a clinical study that this is actually lower. Let’s see if there been any people measured in a clinical study got a preclinical study the GLP. One levels in in humans are necromancy, are you doing that?
Speaker 3 11:02
That’s something that’s yeah, definitely in the works. Because obviously, that’s that’s sort of the Holy Grail, it’s one thing to have things in, in vitro model, or even in preclinical animal model. But it’s obviously a different thing to be able to see it directly in people. One of the ways that you can get at it is through, you know, measuring, as we said, kind of a CGM response to sugar spike. So that’s, you know, further down the line, it doesn’t get you directly to the GLP. One, like how was it done, but it’s helpful, at least to to tell us kind of where to dig. But that’s definitely something we want to follow up with.
Speaker 2 11:43
All right, so now you got everybody interested. Oh, gee, I want more GLP. One talked about, are there other ways to increase our GLP? One?
Speaker 3 11:55
Yeah. So it turns out there is another approach, which, you know, turned up from that, as we dug into our clinical study, and looked at kind of all of the post biotics stuff that was produced there, that could be helpful, we realized that there was this secondary bile acid UDCA ursodeoxycholic acid, that was higher in the group that responded the most metabolically. So the ones that had the drop in a one C and the lower sugar spikes. And this was very interesting, we hadn’t considered that angle, that kind of bile acid approach. But then we looked into the literature. And it turns out that, in fact, you know, 10 years ago, people had been seeing the effects of UDCA. And there, they did measure in humans, the increase in GLP, one, upon taking UDCA, as well as, of course, the the overall metabolic benefits.
Speaker 2 12:57
Interestingly enough, I’ve been recommending Totka, which, to a lot of my patients, based on Chinese medicine, Chinese medicine, believed they were obviously right, that bear bile was a real health. And interestingly, bears this day in Japan and China are hunting for their gallbladder, and they care less about the rest of the bear. But they want the bear Obi in the in the gallbladder gets large amounts of vitamins. And you go ahead, it turns out UDCA you’re so is bear. And this is where all this came from. So I think it’s amazing that all of this stuff that’s been known for 1000s of years, actually, we can now put a clinical management. Oh, yeah, that’s how that works.
Speaker 3 13:59
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I think this is, this has been the exciting area of, of the microbiome, you know, explaining a number of things that we hadn’t understood before, and then revealing, you know, new paths for us. And, you know, the bile acid side of it is yet again, this this, this kind of two systems working together, you create the primary bile acids, but it’s your microbiome that creates the the secondary version. So again, you know, if you have one and not the other, you’re not going to be in the spot that you you need to be
Speaker 2 14:32
my new book will be coming out in January, called the gut check. And a lot of the purpose of the book is one of the chapters is it takes two. And you know that the part that the microbiome play is as you know, and I know, we’re every day we learn and so, you know, important the interaction that we would have never imagined was was this complex. An ecosystem that none of us would have guessed except for the Microbiome Project. And again, but the Chinese New two centuries ago. So there’s a study right now to use the LA looking at codes role in metabolic syndrome in elderly patients, right?
Speaker 3 15:22
Yeah. So I believe you’re referring to the one where there was about 90 geriatric patients that were being studied. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they were studying it for liver disease. So non alcoholic fatty liver disease. And it had been known for a bit of time that UDCA helps on that front. And so they were measuring liver enzymes and using ultrasound. And they did find that, in fact, UDCA helped on that front, but then they were, you know, pleasantly surprised to find out that it also helped on glycemic control and insulin sensitivity. So that, you know, kind of started people thinking that UDCA might have, you know, more than just liver health benefits. And in fact, I maybe I’ll even mentioned today, there was a in that same year, there was a much smaller kind of pilot study of about seven people. That was in healthy volunteers. And this is the one that was referring to earlier that where they gave you DC and then they measured GLP one to show that, in fact, one of the ways that it was working is by increasing GLP one levels. And that in conjunction, it also resulted in lower glucose spikes. So it’s a small study, but it was sort of like, got to the mechanism. One thing,
Speaker 2 16:38
let me back up for people who don’t know we have an epidemic of fatty liver disease in this country. We sometimes call it Nash, non alcoholics piatto hepatitis, or FMLA. Have fatty liver disease, non alcoholic fatty liver disease. And there’s also a beautiful study that I’ve referenced, you can give fructose to rats and give them fatty liver disease really easily, folks. And you’ve also there’s also a study that shows that reverses that fatty liver disease. Right, right.
Speaker 3 17:21
That’s right. That’s right. And actually, it’s in some sense is quite similar to that study, it was referred to with akkermansia. That was done that preclinical study so right, they they induced this metabolic syndrome in the rats through giving them fructose and then with UDCA, showed that it helped with insulin resistance and reduced oxidative stress
Speaker 2 17:43
also dropped uric acid. That’s right. So I
Speaker 3 17:47
mean, I think you’re seeing kind of a lot of these benefits from these post biotics. And it’s sort of, you start to realize that it’s the combination of all of these different functions that needs to be there in order for your body’s handling of nutrient loads to be done in the most kind of effective way possible. I’m gonna pause
Speaker 2 18:09
there for a second because you and I throw around the word post biotic, like, cocktail party discussion. If you’ve read my books, you know what post biotics are, but if you’re just joining us, it’s confusing. Most people now know, pro biotics so called friendly bacteria, and acrobats, the is a pro biotic, then people are beginning to understand prebiotics, which most people categorize as fiber. But if you listen to me and you’ve been pendulum, you know that one of the exciting findings is poly phenols are actually prebiotics that our gut microbiome just thinks it’s delicious. So So what well, your probiotics eat the prebiotics, and they then produce post biotics, which are the active compounds that simplistically comes from the digestion of prebiotics by probiotics. Sorry to be so confusing. I think if we had to do it all over again, we would have never used these terms, but we’re stuck with. So post biotics art are where the action gets done. And, for instance, short chain fatty acids are biotics gassho transmitted when you fart and believe it or not, those are post biotic signaling molecules. Sorry, didn’t do that. But we can go down Nerville but we got to keep everybody so post biotics are really important.
Speaker 3 19:58
Absolutely. No I definitely definitions are super important and otherwise everybody gets lost in the woods. Absolutely. Yeah, exactly right. Post biotics are really important. And as you’re pointing out, it’s about kind of building the right ecosystem, right? So the prebiotics, he kind of gets the right substrate gets the right. nutrients, their bills, you know, gives you the right kind of plants that you want, right? The probiotics, and then they give you the fruits and vegetables that are helpful for your body that are the actually the business end is is, as I like to say that that kind of moves the needle on your health. All right,
Speaker 2 20:35
so what does all this mean for our listeners? How do they get their UDCA levels up and get them GLP? One levels?
Speaker 3 20:45
Yeah, so actually one of our best selling products, metabolic daily, has all of these key strengths. So it’s a formulation that consists of five strains, it includes akkermansia, but it also includes three butyrate producers. And then it rounds it out with a Bifido, that helps kind of break down a number of these complex substrates. So it’s, it’s got kind of the full gamut. That’s able to tackle the problem from a number of different angles. So it’s intended to help with this, you know, natural balancing for metabolic effectiveness.
Speaker 2 21:20
Folks, I take metabolic daily, I’m not afraid to tell you that, again, gut check, one of the things that I think is really important for us all to realize is you have to have, it’s almost like an assembly line. And one bacteria species has to be able to make a byproduct of its eating something that a second bacteria species needs to complete its job. And in fact, there is a chain of bacteria species. And we may have, well, we now know that there is bacteria that are five chains down the line. And if you don’t have the first four bacteria, that guy can’t produce the post biotic that we really want. So it’s people like Tangela, who have said, Okay, go after once he gets great, it’s really important. It’s a keystone species. It’s a facilitator, because it’s giving these other guys the things that you really want, like Buterin, believe butyrate, if you really want it. So I think this is great. And I congratulate you guys for combining in what is good science. You just didn’t know. Here’s, here’s 20 different strains. And there’s a lot of them, we have no idea what they do. But here they are, you should swap
Speaker 3 22:55
know exactly. I mean, it was, in some senses kind of following in the footsteps of what normally would be kind of the development of a pharma thing where you think through the the functions that you really need? What are those key ingredients and put those all together and test, test it all the way through? But, ya know, to your point, it’s important that you think about it in that ecosystem way. In general, because otherwise, it’s it’s hard sometimes to get some of these results that require, you know, a number of things to be layered in at the same time.
Speaker 2 23:29
There’s a lot of talk, even in researcher circles, and I write about this in the new book. Deadwood, batch bacteria do tell tales, that dead bacteria have utility. On the other hand, live bacteria, potentially, and probably more useful. And can you help us through that? Why? Why don’t I just take a bunch of dead stuff? There are some papers that suggests that that bacteria do some pretty cool things. And you probably do, too. But why living? Why did you guys work so hard to get blooming bacteria? Yeah.
Speaker 3 24:17
Yeah. And I totally agree. I mean, I think that there, there is a science around some of the things that are, for example, just directly in the cell walls of the strains that can be helpful. And in substance is because of the ease of it, it can be you know, maybe you can pack more in, but you miss some of the what’s produced that actually requires it to be metabolically active. So the reason why we kind of went down that much harder road is that we understood that there’s going to be a whole slew of things that the strains needed to produce on the spot and that part of the the magic, if you will, is that they’re in the right place responding to the environment and producing things in the right ratios. And that’s crucial right there. And I think we talked about a little bit the last time that you know, some people even say like, Well, why don’t you just give butyrate Are you know that butyrate is good, just give butyrate. And it’s not that simple, because butyrate is just not going to make it to the right spot, right, it’s sort of throwing cash on the highway, like everything can use it, and it’s not going to be in the in the spot that it needs to, to do the signaling. And that’s needed. So it’s along those lines. I mean, one of them, as always uses like, the strain is like, a really smart robot, right, that is in the right spot, and interacting appropriately and responding to the environment. And that’s very difficult to replicate, by just kind of launching something over the fence and just hoping happens to land in the right spot at the right concentration and does the right thing. And then there’s just the general ecosystem argument. So beyond what the strings themselves produce, they kind of create the environment, as you’re pointing out for other strains that you want to grow to kind of flourish as well. So it’s sort of like you create a nice, lovely garden and then suddenly have hummingbirds. Like, you know, you wouldn’t, that wouldn’t have happened if you only kind of had like one or two ingredients out there. You need kind of the full system to be there to get some of the broader benefits.
Speaker 2 26:39
Yeah, we we’ve talked about after months, your other products? Why would you go for metabolic daily versus one of your products? Just somebody needs one better for somebody, you know, what, why did you come up with this? Yeah,
Speaker 3 27:01
yeah. It’s a great question. And when do we get all the time. So as we touched on metabolic Deely, has a broader set of strains. So it really tackles the metabolic question from a number of angles, right? So it’s got the butyrate producers, it’s got butyric them that produces that bear bile that we just talked about. And it has necromancy as well, so produces the p nine and is a keystone strain. So kind of in conjunction, all of them work together really well, for metabolic related issues, and kind of keeping you on that, you know, time and range type of thing, balanced. acromion Sia, on the other hand, is very concentrated on akkermansia. So it’s for those that want to really, you know, supercharge and replenish that Keystone stream. And it is an important string. So it’s it is one of the ones that helps on a number of fronts, but specifically for gut health, right? It helps with the lining, right, it’s one of the few strains that’s allowed by your body to be directly in the lining. And studies have shown that it helps increase the thickness of that and helps kind of the barrier integrity of your gut. So if that’s what you’re shooting for, then I would go for akkermansia directly.
Speaker 2 28:13
I guess you just answered my question. If you can only afford one. Got a preference.
Speaker 3 28:21
I just said like, it depends on what you’re what you’re going for. I mean, I myself go for the broader set, because I feel like I’m in good shape. Now on on acro maintian. I just need kind of a maintenance dose of it. And I need some of the other the other strains to kind of round it out.
Speaker 2 28:38
Since you brought that up. I get that question all the time. Okay, I chose Ackerman CO for three months, every day. And I bet yeah, I got plenty down there. And why should I even bother taking anymore? I have seated. Mike, what’s a you?
Speaker 3 29:03
That’s a really great question. And we actually studied this directly. So in our clinical study, we had a washout period, right where we stopped giving any of the strains for a month so the intervention period was three months daily, and then a washout of a month. And it turned out that only one in five or less had any any strain remaining after the one month. Now it’s important to note that we did not give any advice to change diet or to change your habit because this was part of the study it was like to see the effect of the formulation. But this is the sort of thing that has to be done kind of in concert. So if you want engraftment and the strange to take it is an ecosystem type of question and you may need to always give a little bit Have dosing in there for a while to support it, right? Or to combine it with supporting it with some of these prebiotics and the right kind of nutrient, you know, nutrition balance,
Speaker 2 30:11
correct me if I’m wrong, but there aren’t any foods that can change he’d never been
Speaker 3 30:19
seen. Yeah, not not in any sort of significant quantities. So in fact, generally, as you pointed out, it’s poly phenols that people have used to help, basically, to help flourish. The the remnants of necromancy that you might have,
Speaker 2 30:35
and know if people have read my books, and even in the upcoming book, super old people who are thrive, have a much more generous population of accuracy. And then, well, most people, and that’s, I think one of the reasons we probably ought to be interested in having anchor months here around. Yeah, I there was a very distinguished colleague of mine who recently had a video out about all the foods where you can get back or months. And I just, I just actually kind of there. Alright, Andy. Sorry about that. But are there any other probiotic strains, friendly bacteria that support the production of GLP? One that you guys are looking at? Well,
Speaker 3 31:33
I mean, one of the reasons why we got into butyrate, producers were that they were correlated with its sort of general metabolic health. And it was thought that maybe they could themselves, you know, induced GLP. One, that part I think, is still a little bit up for debate as to whether they do it directly, because it may be that they do it indirectly through kind of synergy with strains like akkermansia. Because you know, akkermansia, and beauty producers actually work kind of in concert, exchanging molecules and so on. And then there’s, as we said, like, maybe subsets of butyrate, producers like butyric them that have this other quality, like the secondary bile acid, so they may have fallen under the umbrella of will beauty producers help on this front, but it may be kind of a more specialized subset of of those. So we’re on the lookout for other ones. Right now. It’s mainly the UDCA route and akkermansia You guys
Speaker 2 32:35
are always doing something interesting. So you’re about to launch and Omega three booster. What do you what are you boost? Omega three?
Speaker 3 32:48
Yeah, absolutely. So it’s actually it follows in the footsteps of the success of the poly phenol booster. And so we’re poly phenols have been shown to help boost akkermansia levels, only Omega three has been shown to boost levels of butyrate producers. So kind of both of those boosters would work in concert with our strain products, right? And you can kind of bring them in together or maybe as a inish initiating it or afterwards, right. So you can do kind of different combinations. And they can help kind of work together with the strains.
Speaker 2 33:26
I think this is very important for people to understand. And I use the example in like, Palm Springs office about pro buyer, and I call them basically grass. And I say, Okay, I’m gonna sell you this grass. And you come back two months later, and these days you sold me bad grassy, nice. Why are they so? Well? You know, I would you do with it? Well, you know, I took it out in the desert and put into the stand. And I say, yeah, and did you water it? No, you didn’t tell me to? Did you fertilize it? No, you didn’t tell me to? And I go, Well, wait a minute. Why did you expect and I think you guys and lots of people are beginning to realize that. Yeah, it’s great to swallow some brass. Probiotics, but you got to give them what they want. And you got to fertilize them, or they’re not gonna grow. Is that just a naive way to explain that?
Speaker 3 34:29
No, that’s that’s a perfect way to explain. I mean, I think that’s exactly right. And I think that’s such a great analogy, because I think it will hit home with people and they realize like, Oh, it’s just, it’s not enough to just take these strains out of context. You’ve got to also water them, you’ve got to take care of them. You’ve got to bring other things along for the ride, bring you know bring their friends along for the ride as well. So other other strains that kind of work in concert with them as well as these prebiotics are super crucial.
Speaker 2 34:58
Yeah, here omega 3.1. actually very well taken, because there’s plenty of literature that shows omega three fats, enhanced the integrity of the gut wall. There’s beautiful literature on short chain omega three fatty acid, and actually preventing lipo polysaccharide, encouragement cross the gut wall, and blah, blah, blah. And yet, what we’re probably going to find out is, well, these guys weren’t doing it themselves. It was facilitating the species of gut bacteria, which are then making more mucus or making butyrate. And it wasn’t the Omega three, that was the actual thing. That was what these bacteria needed from them to do their job. Hey, that’s
Speaker 3 35:51
exactly that’s exactly right. It’s basically this, this overall network, you know, and a good deal of the benefits come about from these indirect effects where they help to grow the right set of strains that can do these functions and can interact them with your cells in the right way.
Speaker 2 36:12
We’ve talked a lot about GLP. One is obviously a hot topic. Are you are you developing with what you know, now a GLP? One product? Or
Speaker 3 36:24
Yes, I mean, that is definitely something that we’re looking into. And just like in this kitchen we just had, you wouldn’t be surprised that it will contain akkermansia. And it will contain butyric come for the bear bile. And it’s also going to contain insulin, right. So the fiber, as well as running it out with a Bifido. Again, to your point of that assembly line, I really like that analogy. And so actually, I’d want to like reach out to your listeners and say, for those of you who may be interested to please reach out to us at pendulum life.com. Because we’re thinking of, you know, having a study to see its effect on cravings and other outcomes, as one of the ways to learn to learn more about it.
Speaker 2 37:11
Oh, that’d be great. Yeah. All right. You heard it here first. Of course, you know, speaking of torture, I have a whole section in my new book about the effect on emotions from the microbiome, and specifically depression and anxiety. Can you give us your thoughts on? Where are we with the, you know, the microbiome gut brain connection, particularly in terms of depression?
Speaker 3 37:49
Ya know, it’s actually, I think, one of the most exciting fields in the microbiome, right, the gut brain connection? And, you know, I think it’s still early days. So I think there’s still a lot to be done there. But now, I think there there isn’t any doubt. I mean, you know, a few years ago, it might have been considered a little crazy to say that, you know, the, the connection goes two ways, right? And that your gut is able to actually influence your mood. And, you know, it can have an effect on anxiety and depression. But now, it’s, you know, it’s widely accepted. And in fact, the question now is really understanding the mechanisms and understanding how to harness that knowledge and create, you know, interventions and things that can help on that front. So I think it’s a very exciting moment for this for this specific field in the microbiome. Yeah, I mean, it’s
Speaker 2 38:51
even got an entire term now psycho biotics. And I mean, there’s divisions devoted to this now. I wish they hadn’t chosen psycho biotic because it sounds kind of psycho. But I think we’re stuck with that term now, too. So it doesn’t mean psychedelics, either. But But no, I think, you know, basically says, I think we should really stop talking about mental health as a brain issue. And we really ought to be talking that a little bit about gut health and its deep connection to what our psyche is doing.
Speaker 3 39:35
No, absolutely. And, you know, out of fear of getting, you know, too philosophical, but, you know, as I’ve gotten more and more into this field, you really do recognize what we’re used to, which is the centrality of the gut. And when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense because for an organism, the key thing is enter reconversion, right life is converting energy into, into being able to do all of the kind of life activity. So it has to be kind of the thing and sometimes running the show, like if things go wrong there, there isn’t anything else that’s going to happen. So, interestingly, you know, the brain and such is maybe an accessory organ.
Speaker 2 40:23
You know, I’ve, for years now called this thing up here to the second brain. And the real brain is down here, you know, I’ve written about I think, because of the credible genome of the microbiome, vastly more genes than our microbiome be. And they’re constantly, you’re constantly changing. They’re constantly getting new information from viruses, and they’re doing this constantly. So I think we basically uploaded most of our processing power to this supercomputer that happens to live in our gut, and that supercomputer. Sorry, folks, I have controls everything that’s going to happen. Sorry. But if I already knew this 2500 years ago, that’s right. Great, quote. All disease begins in the gut. He called it a green lifeforce energy that wanted people to have perfect health. And he didn’t know what that was, but I think makes your work and others were beginning to realize that this reading, lifeforce energy. Maybe we shouldn’t call it brown, lifeforce energy. But yeah, it’s this. It’s this most important, you know, tropical rainforest organism, whatever we want to call it. That is this lifeforce energy.
Speaker 3 41:51
No, absolutely. And actually, I mean, I actually find it beautiful that the description, you know, of us is really this super organism, right? We’re, we’re not just the collection of human cells, that’s almost boring to think about, it’s really this interaction, this deep interaction with all these other species that are all working in concert. And it’s an amazing network. And it’s a it’s a complex thing, that we’re only now starting to, you know, piece, little bits and beaten. And as we do it, I think we’re, we’re beginning to realize, you know, a lot of benefits because not accounting for that was, you know, keep us keeping us in the dark on some really crucial functions.
Speaker 2 42:37
Yeah, really, up until about six, we need know, these guys existed. And the sequencing now, better and better. We’re getting deeper and deeper into the sequences, groups and species and family.
Speaker 3 42:57
So that’s exactly right. Because basically, it was the advent of sequencing and the availability of it that enabled us to see this kind of hidden universe, good. Otherwise, we were only left with the things that we could culture
Unknown Speaker 43:08
was never very good. Yeah.
Speaker 3 43:11
Yeah. It’s a little bit of a catch 22? Like, how do you know what the conditions are to culture? Something that you’ve never seen? Right, yeah. Okay, I have no idea what, what substrates it might need, what conditions it would be. And I liken it to kind of deep sea travel, like, you know, the, the type of organisms that live in that environment are just very different than anything that you see. everywhere else. So
Speaker 2 43:36
any takeaways for our listeners who might be dealing with anxiety and depression? Should we be working on our death form?
Speaker 3 43:46
Absolutely. That is absolutely the case. And already now, you should do your best to eat more healthy, eat more fiber. You know, of course, I tout, you know, the metabolic daily and necromancy and some of these, like, key strains that that can help on that front. But I think that, you know, there’s, there’s still more to come there. And so keep keep your, your, your ear out for what’s what’s happening in this area, getting more
Speaker 2 44:18
of these keystone species into us that we know about now. And quite frankly, writing my book, I learned about a couple of species that Oh, my God, why didn’t I know about these guys? Well, I didn’t know about them, because they were really just identified a year ago. And so they were, you know, oh my gosh, you know, really skinny people, this particular bug, and that’s really common in these getting people and how that bug gets there. And we could go on and on. It’s great to see again, John, always a pleasure. By now most of the listeners are familiar with that, as you’ve been in the whole long time. sponsor guest on the show. But can you remind people where to find you guys? And I think you might have a code for our listeners, or
Speaker 3 45:09
Yes, yes, absolutely. Well, thanks again for having me really, really appreciate it as always, yeah. So pendulum life.com. And the code for your listeners is Gundry 20. So 20% off of first month of any of our membership products,
Speaker 2 45:23
and that’s a significant coupon folks. So please use your product, and go back and look at some of our other episodes. And we may post the episode numbers, because how these guys spent 10 years trying to grow the human strain of achromatic sia that really didn’t want to grow. And it’s just this story well worth hearing over and over again. So you guys just didn’t crawl out of the woodwork?
Speaker 3 45:55
No, no, indeed now. And yeah, it’s great, though, to then be on the other side of that. But yeah, it’s been quite a journey.
Speaker 2 46:03
Alright. Thanks for being on and we’ll have you back with your next new discovery.
Unknown Speaker 46:09
Thank you so much been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 46:12
Okay, it’s time for the audience question. This one is our A to Z IHZAD, nine, six to eight on YouTube. I’m not going to try to fracture today him. So my apologies. Great question. Should we be concerned about high levels of new five GC and goat and sheep cheeses? This is a great question that I addressed in my upcoming book, the gut check. And it turns out that as you may know, there is a nasty sugar molecule. And beef lamb or goats, sheep ungulates is that is really mischievous. In more ways than I go into today. I’ve got a whole chapter devoted to it in the new book, and I’ve talked about economics. It’s also in the milk of cows, goats and sheep. Interestingly enough, goats and sheep have more new five GC in their belt than cows do. Well, here’s the exciting thing. fermentation of these products. In fermentation, the bacteria actually eat new 5g state, which is a sugar molecule. So if you actually look at the cheeses from these animals, traditionally firm it not fresh goat cheese, but actually fermented hard cheeses, Coco, then the new five GC is pretty much gone. And that’s exciting news. But, again, buyer beware. So you really want to four yogurts and fermented cheeses rather than the fresh cheeses. If you’re worried about new five, GC, and believe me after you read the next book, you’ll be even more worried about new five GC than ever before? Because it’s a bad actor. It’s a great question. You’ve been doing your own. Now it’s time for the review of the week from pear row inch up on YouTube. Thank you, oh, so much for this past year, I’ve made a major sea change in my diet. Your advice has worked. And thank you for some of the products. For example, my fatty liver dropped by 10 points in three weeks. I’ve 10 exclamation points. Well, this is a good review of the week because we’re just talking about fatty liver. And fatty liver is an epidemic in this country. It’s driven in large part because most people have metabolic syndrome. It’s driven in large part by fructose consumption in this country added no offense, fructose is fruit sugar. So we’re glad the advice word will add to like the products. And again, thank you for writing, I read your messages. And if you’re lucky you will put on here on the show. And I keep doing this every week.
Speaker 1 49:35
I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Dr. Gundry podcast. If you did, please share this with family and friends. You never know how one of these health tips can completely transform someone’s life when you take the time to share it with them. There’s also the Dr. Gundry podcast YouTube channel where we have 10s of 1000s of free health insights that can help you and your loved ones live a long vital life. Let’s do this together.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
