Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast, where Dr. Steven Gundry shares his groundbreaking research from over 25 years of treating patients with diet and lifestyle changes alone. Dr. Gundry and other wellness experts offer inspiring stories, the latest scientific advancements, and practical tips to empower you to take control of your health and live a long, happy life.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast. No matter how committed you are to healthy eating, unfortunately there’s a good chance your pantry contains one incredibly sneaky, dangerous ingredient. I’m talking about vegetable oil. In fact, about 1/3 of American’s caloric intake comes from these oils, yet most people don’t even know where they are or how they impact their health, and it’s time we had an honest conversation about it.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
So joining me today is Dr. Cate Shanahan MD, the energy guru. She is a Cornell-trained physician-scientist whose works have inspired entire movements, including a couple of really great books that I have read in the past involving both bone broth, live culture ferments, and seed oil-free business empires. Together with NBA legend Gary Vitti, she created the LA Lakers Pro Nutrition program, which has been simulated by elite championship teams around the world. So in just a bit, we’re going to explore how these oils have made their way into almost every pantry in America, the shocking evidence linking these oils to serious disease and what you can do to eliminate them from your diet for good. We’ll be right back. You’re not going to want to miss this one.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Dr. Shanahan, welcome to the show. It’s great to have you here.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Dr. Gundry, it is such an honor to be with you today.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Well, this is going to be fun because I was very impressed with your first book and I’m just delighted that you’ve come out with a new one. I had the opportunity to read it and we’re going to have a great discussion. So you’ve highlighted a fascinating point in your book that vegetable oils unlike anything our ancestors ever consumed, require extensive processing to be even considered edible. And I want you to take people through this because it seems very obvious that, well, gosh, soybean oil, don’t you just have to press on a soybean and out comes the oil and there you go? So it’s a lot more complicated than that, right?
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
It’s quite a bit more complicated than that. It’s unimaginably complicated. People have to get degrees from technical schools with huge backgrounds and biochemistry to be able to do it so that the oils don’t come out being absolutely inedible and just smelling bad and outright toxic. There’s many factories involved. Not just steps in a factory, but there’s many factories. And even just the first one to get the oil out, they use intense heat, 600 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than a pizza oven, which is a really hot oven if you’ve ever made pizza, and intense pressure. And the vast majority, they also need to use solvents like hexane gas, which is toxic too, to get the oil out. And that crude oil that they extract truly is crude and rude. It is sticky, it is vile smelling. It looks blackish, brown and thick and sludgy. And if you eat it, you would probably throw up. It’s that immediately instantaneously toxic.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Now I’m going to stop you right there because I want everybody to know that you’re not just saying this as a whim or as an M.D. You trained as a biochemist, so you know of which you speak in these processes, correct?
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Yes. I went to Cornell before I went to medical school to get a degree in biochemistry. And that’s actually the reason that when I started learning about what I was really eating back more than 20 years ago now, these oils caught my eye because when I looked up what their chemistry was, I recognized a fingerprint signature that signaled these things could be dangerous, and that’s double bonds. And I do talk about that in chapter one of the book with pictures. You really need pictures to visualize some of this, I think. So it can be technical to understand it, but I go into those technicals so people can see that it’s real. It’s truly we’re generating toxins here in these factories.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah. And I like that you actually do use pictures and visuals throughout the book because a lot of this is fairly technical. And just seeing it visually, good for you for doing that.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Yeah, we’re actually fighting a different visual here. I’m fighting this battle to get people to understand how toxic these oils are and how they just destroy everyone’s metabolism. Everyone is eating them. But I’m fighting against another vision. And you probably have heard about this and talked about it maybe, because the idea of saturated fat being held healthy or unhealthy, I mean, rests on a visual too. It was originally put out there as these saturated fats turn solid, just like butter turns solid in your fridge, so it’ll solidify in your arteries and clog them up like grease in a pipe. And that visual is so powerful that even though it was created in the 1950s and ’60s, it’s still in our mind’s eye these days that saturated fat literally clogs up like a pipe. It’s not true, never was true. It’s overly simplistic. It has nothing to do with chemistry. It’s just a dangerous visual.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
So I want to replace that with real visuals in the book. And I mentioned a replacement visual too, in addition to providing those chemical pictures so you can see how toxins are forming. The thinking that we can have is, these oils corrode our arteries, like dumping some sort of toxin into your arteries and it will weaken them and they will bleed and clot. And that’s a more true, valid image because we treat heart attacks with clot busters, don’t we?
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
We don’t treat it with fat dissolvers. If it really truly were just fat, then we would put some sort of enzyme or something in there to dissolve that fat building up. But that’s not what we do at all.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
I think one of the nice things about the book is kind of explaining where all of this idea of vegetable oils came from, and just take us through the industrial byproduct of cotton seeds, which were useless after taking them out of cotton. And take us through how in the world we got from a byproduct of making cotton to idea that Crisco was really good for you.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Yeah, it was chemistry. It came from chemists. The brothers Procter and Gamble were chemists who founded a soap and candle wax company. This was way back in the 19th century in the 1860s, ’70s and ’80s. They were looking into the future of their business, which was mostly candles, and they saw electricity and electric lights as a huge threat. So they wanted to diversify and divest, and they were already using this byproduct of the textile industry, I mean the cotton seed oil. They were already using that to make candles and candle wax. So they wanted to find a different use for it. And what they did was hire a different chemist to tinker it with it some more so that it would remove one of the toxic agents that grows in the plant that the plant uses, like the plant cotton seed protects its little seeds from being eaten by birds by putting in a toxin called gossypol that makes it immediately toxic to people, cows, that’s why they couldn’t use it as animal feed. The chemist had to remove that toxin.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
And then it was kind of like a sludgy, somewhat thick liquid, and they’re like, “Huh, if it kind of looks like lard a little bit, let’s tinker with the recipe a little more.” And, poof, they invented Cristo shortening, one of the first vegetable shortening. And it was truly a byproduct because it was no longer even useful for candles anymore. There was a third rate level of use selling it to people who couldn’t afford the real thing.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah. And in advertising, you speak a great deal about using… And I’m blanking on his name, a great advertising genius of the mid 1900s who really knew how to sell things that people really didn’t need or didn’t want.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Yeah, this man was Ed Bernays.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
There you go.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
He’s considered the father of modern advertising because unlike previous advertising psychology, which just spelled out, “Oh, this is a better product, it’s more durable, it was like all based on logic,” he knew how to pull people’s heartstrings and pull our levers and make us afraid or make us want to look cool with different products.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
And so, one of his first campaigns was actually to help sell cigarettes to women. So this just kind of gives you an idea of the kinds of industries he was working with, right? And he did that in a way that still is being used today. It was kind of like the precursor for Virginia Slims, like the woman who is independent and can bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan kind of thing. He called cigarettes torches of freedom. And what it did was it elevated women who smoke from being seen as trashy to being seen as liberated and independent and free thinkers. So it was incredibly successful, and that really helped sell cigarettes really quick. Sales quadrupled in just a few years after Ed Bernays. So he knew how to help Procter & Gamble and he had kind of a devilish strategy if you want… Should I go into that now?
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Sure, yeah, let’s go right there.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
So his strategy, he knew that people would… Everybody, every doctor had a different thought on what was healthy and what was not healthy. Doctors had their own ideas. So he knew that if he dangled the dollar bill in front of a bunch of doctors, that somebody would show up to grab it and that that would benefit his client Procter & Gamble because that’s just how it works. He knew psychology. He knows that if a man’s salary depends on him believing in something, well, gosh, darn it, it’s going to be impossible, next to impossible to get him to not believe in it.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
So the person who stepped up… Well, the organization who he donated the money to is the organization that you, I’m sure, as a cardiologist are very familiar with, the American Heart Association. And that’s how they got started. They got $1.7 million from Procter & Gamble. And shortly after that, they started funding research that showed or that would show that vegetable oils lower cholesterol and therefore that meant that they were heart healthy. And guess what? None of those two statements are true.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
That’s true.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
They do lower cholesterol, but that doesn’t mean they’re heart healthy, right?
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Correct.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
That’s the disconnect. That’s the disconnect that doctors of the day, they tried to regale against it. They tried to say, “Look, this isn’t true. We don’t have any evidence of this.” But all of those folks are no longer with us. And the lie that was created back in the 1940s by the American Heart Association has gotten stronger and stronger and stronger. And the American Heart Association is now the dominant source of nutrition thought in the entire world. And they’re still telling us this lie 70 years later and we’re still getting sick and dying from the idea that cholesterol clogs arteries and vegetable oils are healthy because they can lower cholesterol.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah. And you spend actually quite a bit of time in the book talking about Ancel Keys, who is legendary in so many ways in nutrition. Ancel Keys, for those of you who haven’t followed you or me, was a Minnesota trained nutritionist who actually designed the K-ration in World War II that fed our troops. And that’s where the word K came from, K-ration. When Dwight Eisenhower had his heart attack in the mid ’50s, they couldn’t figure out how this vigorous general healthy, how in the world did Dwight Eisenhower have a heart attack? So who would they bring in to advise them but Ancel. Keys and Ancel Keys, as you and I know had a very interesting agenda that he was absolutely convinced that saturated fat was the cause of heart disease. And you go into the whole story of how he had 21 countries that he studied right after World War II looking at the association of saturated fat in the diet and heart disease, but chose to only choose six or seven of those countries to finally make his case because the other countries didn’t fit his model.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
And in my last couple books, I’ve gone into how in fact he excluded France from his model even though he had countries on either side like Italy or England in his model. And why in the world would he exclude them? Well, because of the huge saturated fat eating in France. But we digress. He was a great salesman and he sold on the McGovern commission on this. He sold the American Heart Association. But I want to, since you brought up the American Heart Association we were talking off camera, I was a president of the American Heart Association Desert Southern California chapter for two years. And I learned firsthand where the heart healthy symbol came from and how it was acquired. People, I don’t think know, and you do bring it up that the American Heart Association endorses things not based on research, but basically on how much money they’re paid.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
One of my favorites since the desert in Southern California grows large amounts of citrus and grapefruit, as does Arizona, and you’re in Florida and you know that you grow a lot of citrus in Florida. And isn’t it surprising that the American Heart Association heart-healthy seal is on Florida grapefruit, but it’s not on California or Arizona grapefruit? You know why? Because the Florida Grapefruit Commission paid the American Heart Association $400,000 for that seal.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Also, you didn’t mention in your book, but I will, when the get with the guidelines campaign came out to get people to basically lower their cholesterol with the use of statin drugs, the educational program was actually sponsored not by the American Heart Association, but it was sponsored by one of the statin companies through a generous grant to the American Heart Association to get with the guidelines.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Well, that is some great insider information. I’ve been dying to ask you how it was as a cardiologist working with your peers. I think it’s a rare person who is able to think outside the box to question what we learn to see these connections, these larger connections that are running things, like what’s really going on behind the scenes.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
And as a doctor myself, when I kind of went through the rabbit hole or through looking Alice in Wonderland’s looking glass and came out on the other side and realized I was living in the backwards worlds, my colleagues were still back there and I tried to reach in and pull them out like, “Oh, cholesterol was framed basically for heart attacks. Never really found guilty, just framed for crimes committed originally by cigarette smoking.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Back in the 1950s and ’60s, the number one… People were smoking like chimneys. Why did Eisenhower, President Eisenhower, have a heart attack when he was so healthy? Well, he was a four pack per day smoker. And at the same time, the Ancel Keys was pushing his anti-saturated fat agenda, he was covering up the reality that there was so much data at that time already that cigarette smoking was causing heart attacks. And the American Heart Association said nothing about that relationship. They said nothing against cigarettes for decades. They didn’t say anything until after the surgeon general’s warning. And after a decade after that, they finally said they finally got behind the campaign to stop cigarette smoking on airplanes.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
And why does it matter? Well, because cigarette smoking causes heart attacks not because it raises cholesterol. If you’re a one-pack-per-day smoker, you don’t have higher cholesterol than a zero-pack-per-day smoker. If you’re a four-pack-per-day smoker, you don’t have even higher cholesterol. So it causes heart attacks by a completely different mechanism that has to do with exactly what vegetable oils do to our arteries, which is promote oxidation, oxidative stress. That is the chemical cause of arteriosclerosis, of metabolic disease. It even drives obesity. It’s the cause of cellular death. It’s the cause of death at the cellular level, this concept called oxidative stress. And it sounds abstract, but it’s just a term that really helps you understand how your body manages and controls energy. And the key that I want people to come away with is that life and health depend on our metabolism’s ability to generate energy because how do you feel when you wake up and you had a good night’s sleep and you’re full of energy versus you had no sleep or you know you overdid it with something in your diet you felt you wake up feeling tired and inflamed?
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
That has to do with energy and vegetable oils. They promote this deadly condition called oxidative stress. And the chemistry has to do with free radicals that affect our cells very much the way radiation does. So it’s directly damaging and immensely difficult for our cells to survive under this onslaught of oxidative stress.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
And basically oxidative stress, I mean, basically vegetable oils are oxidative stress in a bottle, which is to say they’re accelerated aging in a bottle because oxidative stress is the thing that ages us and kills us. And that is the root cause of all these mysterious diseases people are now suffering from that when they go to their doctor, their doctor can’t really get to the root cause. They’ll say, “Oh, you’re overweight. Well, that’s because of genetics or you’re too lazy, or maybe you just need better willpower so that you don’t eat so much sugar.” But the key to understanding how oxidative stress is making you feel physically different on a daily basis has to do with hunger. And I talk about that in chapter four of Dark Calories, which I think is maybe one of the most important chapters in there because how many people today, Dr. Gundry, do you hear talking about how feel hangry compared to just 20, 30, 40 years ago? I know when I was a kid it wasn’t even a thing.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
No.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Right. So hangry is a new phenomenon. And hangry is really the same kind of… Hangry is a sign that your brain isn’t getting energy when it feels actually like our blood sugar is dropping. And so we instinctively reach for food, we reach for snacks. And if we keep doing that, we’re going to gain weight. So that’s how oxidative stress is actually the root cause of weight gain and the entire obesity and metabolic disease epidemic that is the biggest problem we are facing today.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
I was recently on a podcast with cardiologist who was adamant that PUFAs, polyunsaturated fatty acids, are number one essential for the construction of membranes and mitochondrial membranes. And I think both you and I would agree that they are.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Yes.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Okay, but that they are essential in our dietary control of cholesterol. And that to be adamant that these things, because they are essential in small amounts for the functioning of our mitochondria and our cell membranes, that to villainize them is really a horrible thing. And how dare you tell people that polyunsaturated fatty acids which do lower cholesterol that are called essential because they are essential, how can you take these away from us? Everyone knows, the American Heart Association knows how important these things are. What say you?
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Well, I would say that person is lying because I’m not taking away polyunsaturated fatty acids. I’m taking away vegetable oils that are industrial products that are insanely and unnaturally produced and so high in polyunsaturated fatty acids that they cannot be properly stabilized for use in heating and cooking applications by all the king’s horses and all the king’s men who have tried to do so for the past hundreds of years. I’m talking about the chemists who I cite in the first chapter of Dark Calories as warning us that when we fry with these things for high heat pan frying at home in our kitchen to make something like fried chicken to give it that Westernality, I don’t know if you remember those commercials, make your fried chicken and polyunsaturated corn oil, when we do that at home or when restaurants do that, then if a restaurant does it as single fry has as much toxic chemical called aldehydes, alpha beta unsaturated aldehydes known to cause cancer, known to harm energy generating mitochondria, known to be directly toxic to the nervous system. Chemists have been warning that these oils contain these toxins.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
And so I would say to someone who argues against me saying, “You can’t take away polyunsaturated fatty acids,” I am certainly not doing that. And don’t, don’t try to put words in my mouth, right? That is a lie. I never said that. Polyunsaturated fatty acids, we were as a human species, we got plenty of them before vegetable oils were ever invented. So we don’t need to rely on these unnatural toxic, but toxin-rich products, that they’re toxic when they leave the factory and they’re even more toxic after we cook with them and we don’t need to rely on them.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
And in fact, in toxicology there’s a saying, the dose makes the poison. Anything in too high of a quantity can be toxic directly even without the formation of these toxins during heating and cooking. So the medical industry right now is completely ignoring that fact, those realities, those are hard cold realities. The people within the industry, the vegetable oil industry, the people who work for companies like Unilever and Monsanto that sell these oils, they’re the ones saying, they’re the ones who taught me that these oils contain toxins.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
So it’s disgusting to me that the American Heart Association and the doctors like the ones you were talking to, are less interested in the truth about these oils than the food industry whose entire financial empires depend on selling more of these oils, because that’s the world we live in right now, where we’re hearing more truth from the people selling the oils than the supposed healers out there, like those at the American Heart Association.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Those are kind of like the priests. The American Heart Association is like the Pope of this religion, that cholesterol clogs are arteries. And guys that are like Darius [inaudible 00:25:49], and maybe you know him, guys that run the deans of the nutrition schools at Harvard and Tufts, and I’m sure you’ve run into these characters, they’re like the bishops. And then doctors who haven’t gone through the rabbit hole, we are unfortunately the priests and we are selling this false religion to people that cholesterol oil, that cholesterol is clogging our arteries and we need these cholesterol lowering oils. It’s a religion and it’s a bad religion, it’s a dangerous religion. It is not a science. That’s my point, that nutrition science is a religion. It is no longer a science.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
All right, I want to jump ahead. You made a good case and you make a very good case in the book.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Thank you.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
But you’ve designed a two-week jump start plan because you spend a lot of time saying, “This stuff is in you and it’s hard to get out of you.” And it’s a process as you and I both know. How do we jump start all this? Take us through it, give somebody hope that this is reversible.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Yes, it is totally reversible. In fact, there is no sort of metabolic damage that can’t be fixed with better diet.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
True.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
It comes down to getting more energy for your cells, and that comes down to recovering from the oxidative damage and preparing your body to deal with oxidative stress. So in the two-week challenge, I teach you the foods that are going to not only substitute for vegetable oils, the healthy fats, but also the vitamins you need, the minerals you need, the other nutrients that you need, the high protein foods, the right kind of carbohydrate-containing foods because not all carbohydrate containing foods are bad for us. It’s really just the process, highly refined stuff. So I teach you all of that because that, you can actually build a meal that gives you energy versus another meal, it’s based on our choice, that steals our energy. So that’s what the two-week challenge does in the entire last part of the book, which is four chapters, chock-full of information that helps you understand how to maximize your body’s energy and turn around whatever metabolic disease you might be suffering from with a healthy balanced diet.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
And it all begins a course with a simple habit of just picking up every single thing that you buy and turning it package around to scan for one of the, I call them the sinister six, that are going to be in ingredients. There’s actually eight altogether, so I call it those the hateful eight. But in the grocery store we really only have to think about six, and that’s just real quick, corn, canola, cottonseed, soy, sunflower, safflower.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
In the United States we have canola. Overseas there’s instead of canola, rape seed. But memorize those six. And if you can turn the package around and scan for those six ingredients, then you can turn your health around and get more energy starting on day one. That’s my goal for you, is to feel physically better. That’s how you know it’s working. You don’t have to go to the doctor and get any tests done. I mean you can, but that’s another issue because they’re going to tell you high cholesterol is a problem that’s going to lead to arguments. So it’s really important we do have to learn how to recognize when we are healing ourselves and it’s very simple because I do teach you how to track your energy improvements in the book too, and that’s the key. Instead of focusing on weight, that is another one of the lies, that metabolic health comes down to our body fat, our body composition, having too much fat. It comes down to our ability to generate energy and avoid inflammation. And that’s what this book is all about helping you do.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
I also noticed you, like myself, come down on protein powders. Good for you. I feel like I am crying out in the wilderness that the protein powders, talk about manmade. These things also didn’t exist up until a few years ago.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
That’s so true. I’m so glad you noticed that. You’re the first person to notice that. And I’m so glad to hear that we are no longer the lone voice in the wilderness thinking of that. We’re like the wonder twins of protein powders. Don’t eat them, right? They do also promote oxidative stress. Yeah.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah, they do. Yeah, but that’s another subject. All right, well congratulations on this book. It’s a good read. I want to do make a mention that you’re talking in general about seed oils, but I want to make a pitch that you’re not against all seed oils. For instance, flaxseeds, flaxseed oil is incredibly good for you if you use it right. You come quite positive on sesame oil, which I was intrigued to see. I want to tell you about Perilla oil, which is mostly alpha-linolenic acid. It’s almost pure alpha-linolenic acid, which is my darling of the vegetable oils. I’m a huge fan of it. I use it in my patients to stop them having lipopolysaccharides in their blood, which I measure. Anyhow, so good for you. Not all seed oils are the evil empire.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Great. Just the hateful eight.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
All right. So before I let you go, we always do an audience question and we’ve got a good one. So if you don’t mind, I’ll let you take a shot and then I’ll take a shot. PeterDarling1965 writes, “Dr. Gundry, how can one find out if the oil is oxidized or not? Are there any brands that third party certify non oxidations? I have read that PUFAs and MUFAs,” that’s monounsaturated fatty acids, that’s like olive oil, “oxidize very quickly and most likely become rancid by the time the oil is in the supermarket. What are your thoughts regarding this? Your feedback would be very helpful indeed.” All right. What’s say you?
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
Anything you’re going to buy in the grocery store that’s made out of one of the hateful eight vegetable seed oils is going to be oxidized. Because while they could in theory take soy oil and manufacture it in such a way that it does not oxidize, that is going to cost probably a thousand times more. So it just is cost prohibitive. And therefore it’s not going to be in the grocery store unless we’re talking about a supplement. And if you’re going to buy a supplement, you’re not going to cook with it. And yes, the supplements should say something about what they do to mitigate oxidation. And if they are doing that, they will say so.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
But stuff you’re going to find in the restaurants doesn’t matter. A lot of folks feel like if they’re shopping at Whole Foods or sitting down in a very expensive restaurant, they must be using a better quality oil. But the fact is that the hateful eight oils simply cannot be produced at scale in a way that makes them safe. I think about it with just like even olive oil. Olive oil is much more stable. It doesn’t have so much polyunsaturated fatty acid. It’s got healthy, saturated and monounsaturated fat. And even that has grades and only the most expensive olive oil is the best and it’s the least oxidized, right? There’s the lower grade olive oils that are more oxidized.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
And even olive oil, once you open the top, it begins to oxidize once you put air in there. I always tell people, “Look, buy olive oil in dark bottles. Buy it in small bottles and use it up quickly. Don’t get the 4 gallon jug at Costco. That’s not the way to buy olive oil.” Thank you for keeping at this. Where can they find more about you and Dark Calories?
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
So please visit my website, which is drcate.com, D-R-C-A-T-E.com. And you can read more information about the book right on the front page and you can find out where to order on the front page of my website. But of course you can order it from Amazon and a bunch of other booksellers. And then you can follow me on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook @D-R-C-A-T-E, shanahan, my last name. It’s all the same handle everywhere, S-H-A-N-A-H-A-N.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Well, great. Keep up the good work and it’s nice meeting you in person and we’ll continue the discussion here. Maybe we’ll talk about protein powder sometime.
Dr. Cate Shanahan:
I would love to, yes. Because so many people are taking them and they think they’re doing them good when I’ve actually seen numbers in their blood that I, the ones I’m concerned about that indicate oxidative stress, I’ve seen them improve by cutting out the powders. We should talk again, and it’s been a pleasure.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
All right, great. Keep up the good work. All right. Okay. It’s time for our review of the week from DJDeje5536. “Dr. G’s fake coat drink balsamic vinegar and soda water is fantastic. I use cherry flavored seltzer water to make a fake cherry Coke.” Well, what a great idea, DJDeje55366. Thanks for writing in about that.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
We’re just trying to get a healthy, useful, beneficial version of something we all like to drink, but we know full well is not doing anything for our health. And I like that great idea of a cherry flavor fake Coke with cherry seltzer water and balsamic vinegar. So thanks for writing in. Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:
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