Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast, where Dr. Steven Gundry shares his groundbreaking research from over 25 years of treating patients with diet and lifestyle changes alone. Dr. Gundry and other wellness experts offer inspiring stories, the latest scientific advancements, and practical tips to empower you to take control of your health and live a long, happy life.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
What if your dog could live to celebrate its 20th or even 30th birthday? Now, it might sound like something out of a dream, but with the right care, it’s actually possible. Today, I’m excited to welcome back two experts who can show us how. Joining us are Dr. Karen Shaw Becker, one of America’s most respected veterinarians, and Rodney Habib, founder of Planet Paws, the world’s largest pet health community on Facebook. They’re also authors of The New York Times bestselling book, Forever Dog. We had a great conversation about it several years ago. It was episode 181, if you’d like to check it out.
And today, they’re back with a brand new book, and also a New York Times bestseller, The Forever Dog Life: 120+ Recipes, Longevity Tips, and New Science for Better Bowls and Healthier Homes. After the break, we’ll discuss practical science-based strategies for extending your dog’s life, from budget-friendly raw feeding tips, to keeping your dog mentally and physically active, and creating a healthier home environment, because who doesn’t want the best for their pups, myself included? So for all those pet parents out there, or thinking about getting a dog, stay tuned. We’ll be right back.
Welcome back to the show, Dr. Becker and Rodney. Great to see you again.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
It’s wonderful to be here.
Rodney Habib:
We are super excited. Super excited to talk about longevity and science again with you.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
I want to hear about this incredible dog, Bobby, a dog from Portugal who lived well into his twenties, and possibly beyond 30. Now, he died just last year, but you two had the pleasure of meeting him. So what aspects of Bobby’s care do you think had the biggest impact on his long life?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
I’ll go first. I believe, Dr. Gundry, that Bobby’s exceptionally long-lived life was the environment that he was in. He had an incredibly low stress lifestyle. He was moving almost constantly. He spent his days outside, meandering through the garden and taking walks to the forest with his dad in a toxin-free environment. And he nibbled from the garden and he ate fresh food every day. So I think that he had this beautiful environment that supported this exceptional longevity. Rodney, anything else?
Rodney Habib:
I mean, just the quintessential centenarian life, right, I mean, clean air, clean soil, clean food. Literally, if you look at the diversity in the garden, Dr. Gundry, your jaw would drop. I mean, it literally looked like a giant Whole Foods, the backyard. It was so phenomenal to see.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
How did you guys end up meeting Bobby and his family, and how did it influence your thinking in this book?
Rodney Habib:
Well, the truth be told, I remember we were together when news broke all over the world … You saw CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera, all these major networks posting that the longest-lived dog in the world was discovered way up in the mountains of Portugal. Our book was almost printed. It was on the printer when we called Harper Collins and said, “Wait, don’t print that. Oh my gosh, there’s been such an incredible discovery. We’ve got to go see it.”
So we jumped on planes and flew down to Portugal. It’s such an incredible story. I mean, truth be told, today, there’s a bunch of updates that have come out on this dog. I mean, the dog set the record for not only the oldest-lived dog in the world, but also the longest-lived dog to have ever existed. And so much controversy came out when Leonel, the owner of the dog, had come out with the information. Well, big pet food started to make some calls. The ultra-processed food industry said, “Hey man, stop bringing up the fact that you fed the dog a homemade diet, or we’ll have this dog disqualified.” I kid you not.
One year later, after the dog had passed, not even 72 hours later, the ultra-processed food industry is now trying to get the dog disqualified. But the good news is, Dr. Karen Becker took some genetic swabs of the dog. We sent it to one of the top longevity labs in Hungary, Budapest, Dr. Enikő Kubinyi, one of the top longevity scientists out there. She’s got peer-reviewed studies in Frontier on it. They came back with the answers to the genetic testing. The dog has the telomeres and DNA methylation of a dog anywhere between the ages of 25 to 35 years old. So whatever happens right now, we know in the world we have some science about an incredible story of an incredible dog who lived an incredibly long-lived life. And we made it the intro to the book.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
And what’s become of the big dog food industry and you?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
I think they’re still fighting. I have not heard an update. Rodney, I don’t know if you have. I think that they’re still arguing. I think Leonel is wildly frustrated, because there is so much controversy. But the controversy really has been pitched because of his food, and because Bobby was a dog that has never consumed any ultra-processed food. He’s never consumed dog food one day in his life.
The dog was born in a woodshed behind Leonel’s house. And his family has raised Bobby the same way they have raised all of the other dogs, which they make homemade meals. 75% of their food, they grow themselves from the garden. They raise rabbits and chickens. And then all those leftovers, Bobby would eat. So he’s never consumed any ultra-processed food. And I think that that was the beginning of a big argument between the big pet food and a human being that has never fed dog food to his dog. And so I think that the drama will continue throughout this year.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
So tell me about the life strategy that you introduce in the book: lifestyle, ideal microbiome, food and environment. It sounds like what you’ve just said is really the foundation framework of this book. And what makes it so effective? Why should we focus on those things?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Well, in our first book, Dr. Gundry, we focused on the DOGS strategy, which was diet-optimal movement, genetic predispositions, and stress. And that was our 400-page really heavy science, the why behind intentionally creating extra long-lived dogs. People’s number one question was, “Hey, this is great science. We’re so thankful we have it. However, how do we put these principles into action?” So this follow-up book, Forever Dog Life, really is the how to do that. And we developed the LIFE strategy. And Rodney, you want to give a brief rundown on that?
Rodney Habib:
Yeah. Well, obviously, L, right off the bat, starts with lifestyle and the environment. We know today how important the environment is, Dr. Gundry, especially with the fact we’re seeing, according to human research, more people under 50 with cancer. Microbiome is shifting. The environment is shifting. So that was really something important that we thought we would cover early on in the first letter of the book. I, which stands for ideal microbiome, and the importance of the microbiome today, something that not a lot of dog pet parents even think about. F stands for food diversity. Obviously, the more diverse your microbiome, the longer you live, according to experts. And then E would come in with environmental stresses, chemical stresses, things that can stress your pet within your home, things that we really need to consider … Putting that strategy together and trying to get 100 recipes to coexist with the book.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Listening to Bobby’s lifestyle, you’ve mentioned it I think twice now, much of his life seems to have been spent outdoors, which may not be realistic for most pet parents, but how do you maximize that, as a dog owner?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Yeah, it’s such an important question. And most of us don’t live on farms where our dogs just live their best freewill choice life. And there’s also, of course, risks with dogs that are outside. Now, Bobby was on a contained five-acre area, so he was safe, but he was able to touch the ground, breathe clean air, get direct sunlight. His body was in contact with clean, unadulterated soil.
So he had this perfect luxury life that none of us really can provide for our dogs. But what we can do is probably and optimize the amount of times our dogs do spend outside. And if we live in the city, and if we’re dogs primarily contacting concrete, we can take weekend trips to forests. We can get out into the woods. We can take our dogs hiking. We can do what we can to enrich their environment with more natural settings as often as possible.
Rodney Habib:
Yeah, and what’s really cool about it is it’s not even duration either, Dr. Gundry. A lot of people will look at their watches, everyone has a busy life, and they think they’ve got to walk 10 kilometers with their dog. We went to Bernard University, where we sat with Dr. Alexander Horowitz, that was showing us that just taking your dog outside to sniff was as impactful as walking your dog around the neighborhood for 20 minutes, a sniffari, if you may, giving your dog choice to go outside, collect data, smell fire hydrants, smell telephone poles. They don’t got to go very far. Believe it or not, according to scientists, that will increase the health span of your dog alone, just giving them the ability to sniff.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
We think of as humans, compared to dogs, our olfactory, our smelling system is pretty lousy, but it’s still one of the most direct connections to the brain. And there’s a recent human study looking at people who, during the time they were asleep, every two hours were exposed to a different aroma from an aroma machine, and compared to people who were not exposed to these different aromas while they slept. And the folks who were exposed to these aromas, literally while they were asleep, had a 20% improvement in memory in six months’ time. It’s like, “Whoa.”
I’ll tell you a personal story. As you guys know, usually we, for better or worse, have four dogs. And recently, we almost simultaneously acquired two rescue dogs. We usually have one rescue dog, but we acquired two of them, and they were both boys. And my wife prefers females for dogs. They’re a little bit easier. So now we have two male boys, and we have a third male. We actually only have one female. Anyhow, boys, as you know, like to sniff and mark. And females in general don’t, although our longest lived female was a good sniffer and marker. Anyhow, my wife, I had to train her that they have to sniff, and you don’t pull them. And so yeah, she goes on sniff safaris now. And I’ve had to train my wife more than I had to train the dogs. Did I do right by the dogs? And maybe I did right by my wife.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
You’re doing really well. What I say as a wellness veterinarian is that there are cardio walks. Just like for us, there are times when you got to get out there. And even if you see your neighbor, you say, “Hey, I’m doing my 20 minutes of cardio. Hey, we’ll talk later.” You want to keep your heart rate elevated above resting heart rate for a minimum of 20 minutes. And we do that for dogs as well.
However, the warmup and the cool down can be this extensive sniffari, where we give our dogs choice. And if they want to turn left and smell the bush for 90 seconds, we will just give them the opportunity to smell that bush for 90 seconds, because in essence, this is their happy hour. This is when they’re able to ground themselves out, they’re able to collect information from the environment, they’re able to determine where other animals have been and the health status of other animals. So giving them the opportunity to really be dogs is a very important part of decreasing their stress, actually. Yeah. So you did well.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Oh, shoot. Okay.
Rodney Habib:
You did really good.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
I try to convince everybody that this is their Instagram or their Facebook, and they’re finding out who’s in the neighborhood, probably what Fred had for breakfast this morning.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
I call it peemail.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah. Well, very good. Yeah, I like that.
Rodney Habib:
And something else, and you touched on, is that four dogs, right? So that’s considered a very rich social life. When you looked at the centenarians in Sardinia, one of the key factors longevity scientists said was a very rich social life. And so science will show if you can’t get out and you’re busy, try having a play date with your dog. Maybe knock on your neighbor’s door, be a little cordial, bring over that dog, right? Friends go a long way in the dog world.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Before we leave this topic, and I’m thinking of a couple of our friends who have smaller dogs, and they think it’s just the most wonderful thing to carry them around in baby carriages and/or baby pouches. And help me understand … You’re probably going to tell me, “What a great idea. How nice for your dog.” I hope you’re not going to tell me that.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
For safety reasons, I totally understand there are times when if there is a risky situation or there’s a dog that is untrained or reactive, you would want to be able to scoop your babe up and put them somewhere safe. Got it. There are also paraplegic dogs or animals with injuries or birth defect that cause them to only be able to walk so far, and then they need to go into a stroller. No problem. The downside is, Dr. Gundry, so many dogs actually are lacking adequate muscle tone. They are not musculoskeletal enriched and/or optimized, because they’re not moving their joints. They’re not putting their joints through a natural range of motion multiple times a day, because they are carried. And so I don’t agree with that.
The other thing that tends to happen is they tend to lack the socialization skills, because they are not allowed to interact and sniff butts and meet dogs and have dog-to-dog interaction communication early on in life that allows them to be able to have the long-term social skills for healthy interaction with other dogs later in life. If you want to put your dog in a stroller or a pouch for a few minutes, cool. But other than that, they need exercise. They need all the same daily enrichment activity as well as the same amount of physical exercise as any other size dogs. So dogs are dogs, and they all need a lot of physical exercise. And they need to touch the ground and move their bodies in a healthful, normal manner.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Thank you. I used to do 5Ks, seriously, with a Yorkie, a female Yorkie.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Good for you.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
That little dog, I mean, literally, I don’t think she touched the ground during that 5K. I mean, she loved it.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Oh, good.
Rodney Habib:
Dr. Gundry, when we would go and travel around the world to visit the longest-lived pets in the world, 20 and above, the common through line always was the amount of exercise that these dog had. And a lot of them were free roaming, where the owners would open the door. They lived farm life, country life, touching the soil, mixing with the soil microbiome. Analyzing the diversity of the microbiome of some of these animals was phenomenal, just because of the environment, allowing these dogs to move. So well done with the 5K walk.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
It was a run. It wasn’t a walk. That’s a good segue into the microbiome. Now, I’ve spent 20 years trying to convince people to pay attention to the microbiome, but it’s certainly not something that comes up a lot in dog talk. So talk us through that, okay?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
I’ll just start by saying about the worst thing we could do to our animals, dogs and cats both, is to feed them the same food from birth till death every day, especially if it’s ultra-processed food. Now, we totally get that for economic reasons, some people can only feed ultra-processed dry food. No problem. This entire second book is about how to improve the nutritional status. If you have to feed only highly refined foods, what can you do to intentionally diversify that microbiome?
But about the worst thing we can do, Dr. Gundry, is feed the same foods over and over. And yet, that’s what veterinarians worldwide say: “Get them on a food and just never change their diet.” And that’s about the worst microbiome recommendation ever on the planet. So what we do know is diversity is really important. And I’ll let Rodney chime in there. That’s just my veterinary two cents, to really disregard that old wives’ tale, that we should never switch our dog’s food. That’s really bad advice.
Rodney Habib:
Yeah. One of the biggest problems, obviously, which would be the same thing in the human space right now, is the tsunami of gut dysbiosis that’s happening in the dog space, Dr. Gundry. There is so much gut dysbiosis in the dog space, where we’re putting pesticides on our pets when we treat them with chemical flea and tick products. Our lawns have never been more sprayed than ever today, everyone trying to avoid weeds, and just putting every type of chemical that’s out there. The mountain of science showing what that can do to the gut microbiome of our pets today.
But there’s so much dysbiotic pets that are out there. And what a lot of pet parents don’t realize is that an improved microbiome not only is going to lead to a better lifestyle, but there was a paper published, Dr. Becker, if you remember, 70% of pets today are considered to have anxiety, to be anxious in their homes. And when you have a healthy microbiome, as you would know, I mean, this is probably like popcorn to you, Dr. Gundry, when you have a healthy microbiome, you have a healthy brain. Your hormones function differently. Your pet responds differently when their microbiome is right. And so we brought in a lot of science, over 340 citations than just a cookbook, to show people the importance of an ideal microbiome.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
And we could spend the rest of the time … We know how to make some changes in the human microbiome. What are the steps that you outlined to get a more diverse microbiome in our dog?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Well, we start slow. We start with literally one bite at a time. And our good friends, Finnish researchers, as well as researchers in the US, learning that as … literally a teaspoon, five grams of a prebiotic fiber-rich veggie does amazing things. So we literally can swap out one bite of carrot at a time. And if you’ve never fed your dog or cat anything other than cat food or dog food, you would start very slowly. But just sharing a bite of banana … The only foods you don’t share with dogs or cats … no grapes, and therefore raisins. No onions; therefore, no leeks and chives. And no chocolate. I also recommend avoiding macadamia nuts, because they’re high in fat and they can cause some GI upset.
But other than that, Dr. Gundry, you can share … if you’re eating a sunflower seed, unsalted raw, you share the same parts of fruits and veggies with your dogs and cats that you’d give to your two-legged kids. So you’re not giving rinds, cores, pits, leaves, stems. When you read online, “You can’t give dog almonds,” of course, you can give dogs raw, unsalted almonds. But are they a choking hazard for two- and four-legged kids? Sure. So just chop them up.
How you go about diversifying your dog or cat’s microbiome is offering tiny bites of food over time and replacing ultra-processed treats with fresh homemade foods from your fridge. And you really can decrease your pet food bill by just opening up your fridge. Those dented blueberries that are going bad? Share those with your dogs. And if your kitties will eat them, even better. But you can begin sharing your human foods with your pets. And that’s a great way to start the diversification process within the microbiome. You have something to add, Rodney?
Rodney Habib:
Well, we went after some of favorite foods of the microbiologists. Dr. Gundry, I know you were early on talking many, many years ago about one of your favorite bacterias, Akkermansia. And I know that’s a really big word in the dog space. First of all, trying to convince pet parents to get rid of the ultra-processed food, bring in more minimally processed foods is where we are in the pet world. So obviously, dropping the word Akkermansia is not going to be the easiest translational thing in the dog space. But we took that into consideration. And we wanted to bring out some unique foods: pomegranate, right? We know that Akkermansia loves pomegranate. It might seem absurd to a pet parent to add just a teaspoon of pomegranate into a diet, but we tried to take those magical foods into consideration that science loves: okra, cranberries, things that you might not be thinking about, but your dog’s microbiome might be begging for.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Yeah. In fact, Dr. Gundry, as long as you are not spraying your yard, the best free microbiome builder are dandelion greens. You just pick them in your backyard. They’re chock full of inulin, right?
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yes, right.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
They’re really great for the gut. Just make sure that they’re unsprayed. But that’s a totally free way that you can mince up some dandelion greens, mix it in with whatever food you’re feeding. And that right there is a nice bump to microbiome food diversity, as well as resiliency. So the key is to begin adding teeny tiny amounts on a daily basis to begin diversifying your dog or cat’s gut health.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
When I had you on the program last time, I ran home and I told my wife, “We’re going to start feeding our dogs blueberries.” She said, “Hey, great.” I got news for you: our dogs turn up their noses at blueberries. They go, “No, not interested. Sorry.”
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Dogs have preferences just like people do. So your job as a proactive guardian is to find out what your dog’s palate does enjoy, and that’s fun. That’s a fun discovery process as well. Your dog may be a green banana boy, or he may be a sliced carrot or a Jerusalem artichoke boy. We don’t know, but that’s the fun of experimenting with fresh food.
Rodney Habib:
Well, and there’s also the different ways of preparing the blueberry, Dr. Gundry. There’s many ways to get a blueberry into a dog, almost like egging on a child to eat their vegetables. You can mix them with broths, you can mix them with yogurts. There’s so many fantastic things that you can incorporate blueberries into a meal. So maybe it’s not the most primary staple for a dog to eat, but maybe mixed in with something else. They may change their view on that.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
I may try again, but as you know, blueberries have now joined the dirty dozen.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
If you can’t buy organic, I think the key is shop your farmer’s markets. Really try and support local.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah, very true.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
And then if you can’t stuck with conventional, make sure that you’re washing. You need to do a produce disinfecting as best you can.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
All right, I want to go into some more of the foods that you highlight in your book of Forever Dog Foods, starting with eggs. Now, you say eggs are one of the most nutritious dog snacks on earth. How so?
Rodney Habib:
Well, we know that egg is literally the number one most bioavailable source of protein for pets. It is like the multivitamin for dogs. It’s maybe the most convenient, easy, and most affordable way, Dr. Gundry, to bolster your dog’s meal. There’s nothing like bringing a few teaspoons of their meal out and adding in a few teaspoons of eggs in.
And there’s so many incredible ways to offer the egg, right? The biggest question that we always get all the time is, “How on earth is the best way to feed a prepared egg?” Now, I know this is very controversial, even in the human space. Scientists will argue the same in the human space as they do for dogs. It seems right now the science community is hovering around soft-boil, cook some of the [inaudible 00:23:58], don’t damage the protein, don’t damage the yolk. A nice soft-boil for a dog. But they’re fine eating raw eggs … I know Sylvester Stallone in Rocky, all the years doing pushups and drinking raw eggs. It’s in mayonnaise, it’s in chocolate chip cookie dough. So there’s nothing wrong with raw eggs as well, but it’s the way that the dog likes it. I mean, there are some dogs, too, that like it scrambled. I’m not a big fan of scrambled. I know the more heat, the worse it is. But adding an egg is an incredible way to bolster your dog’s bowl in so many different areas, and choline being one of them, Dr. Becker, your favorite.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Yeah. Choline is a really important nutrient that we underestimate in the dog and cat space. And eggs are one of the best sources of choline. So you can really bolster your dog and cat’s nutrition by popping an egg and/or sharing your eggs. Before you salt and pepper them, just share a bite of egg with your dog or cat. Now, have you tried that with your four-legged family members, Dr. Gundry? Are they big on eggs?
Dr. Steven Gundry:
They’d much rather have sardines than eggs.
Rodney Habib:
Smart dogs.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
And so I’m going to bring that up. So yeah, they go, “No, no. Sardine any day.”
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
And let’s just touch on sardines, because sardines, they’re small fish. They don’t bioaccumulate heavy metals. They’re a rich source of CoQ10 and taurine, ubiquinol, vitamin D. They’re really about the best treats. So some sardines packed in water or olive oil are one of the best snacks you can give your dogs or cats. Now if you take a sardine, mash it up, Dr. Gundry, with a blueberry there, you sneak a little polyphenol in right there, right there.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
There we go. Okay, I’m going to sneak some in. Okay. Good idea. And I’m a big fan of green bananas, because of the fiber. And I have, quite frankly, never offered a piece of green banana to my dogs, but maybe I should mash that up in there as well.
Rodney Habib:
Yeah, it’s an incredible prebiotic for the microbiome. One thing that a lot of animals lack are prebiotics today. And I’m sure you’ve probably seen that study that was mind-blowing. It showed up all over my newsfeed, showing that the resistant starch in green bananas prevented or reduced some cancers by 60%. I mean, that was a mind-blowing study that literally took the internet by storm in its time. Green bananas are a fantastic, fantastic way of helping to grow that microbiome with a good prebiotic source. And who doesn’t love resistant starches, Dr. Becker?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Exactly. And if you do have a puppy, one of my favorite training treats … because green bananas are so firm, you can slice them in rings and then quarter those rings into literally like pea-sized training treats. It’s one of the best ways to train puppies, is using green bananas, build the gut health and get that prebiotic fiber, a little bit of fiber in there. But certainly that resistant starch is building a gut of steel. And that really is our goal. When animals are young, if we can really focus on diversifying their gut and building resiliency within the GI tract, that goes a long ways in helping animals later on reduce chronic disease. So we really want to focus the first couple of years especially of intentionally creating a really strong, resilient gut.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Since you brought up raw eggs, I know you guys and I are fans of raw food for dogs. We’re really the only animal that ever cooked its food. So we mentioned this early, how do you transition into raw foods? Where is the place for raw foods, particularly considering the price? Tell folks how to do this.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
I will start by saying this, Dr. Gundry, part of the reason that we wrote this cookbook that contains nutritionally complete recipes for puppies, kittens, adult dogs and cats, less active dogs and cats, all with specific activity levels and calorie counts that are targeted to different life stages … That’s a feat. And part of the reason veterinarians across the board do not recommend homemade meals, regardless if they’re raw or gently cooked, is because the vast majority of pet parents are not following a recipe. And that means that over time, dogs and cats are nutritionally deficient, which can lead to a whole host of degenerative issues later on in life.
So nutritional deficiencies are never a crisis in veterinary medicine, but because research shows over 90% of the diets you find on the internet are absolutely not suitable in terms of meeting minimal nutritional requirements or exceeding maximum safe levels of some minerals, so guessing at a homemade diet is not what we recommend. And we wrote this book specifically for veterinarians saying, “I need a bunch of recipes that I want to ensure that my clients are feeding nutritionally complete recipes.” But we also wrote this book for people that are interested in preparing gently cooked or raw meals, but they don’t know where to start.
So if you can make your food at home, you’re in control of the ingredients, you’re also able to choose the quality, raw, free-range, ethically sourced, whatever resonates with your food philosophy, you’re able to incorporate that into your dogs’ and cats’ meals. Buying human grade, minimally processed food is very expensive, just as it is for people. It’s much more expensive than fast food. It’s cheaper to feed our bodies ultra-processed food than it is to feed healthy, good whole foods. And the same is true for dogs and cats. Using nutritionally complete recipe and making those meals at home is a great way to save a lot of money. Rodney, do you have anything to add to that?
Rodney Habib:
Yeah, one of the key things that we wanted to add and really highlight for people, it’s not all or nothing either, Dr. Gundry. The last time when we were on the show, we had talked back then that the average American could only afford $22 a month for food. That’s not a lot of money. And especially, there’s a lot of people that are struggling to make ends meet to feed themselves nowadays. But what we do know is we’ve got a mountain of research and science that can show that a tablespoon can take you a long way, a tablespoon of something minimally processed, added into something ultra-processed. And removing a tablespoon of something ultra-processed can go a long way for inflammatory markers, for the reduction of AGEs, advanced glycation end products, glycoproteins that they’re finding in some of these foods.
So when we designed the book, what we wanted to show was, okay, we know whole foods are expensive. If you can afford it, perfect. Here’s a great way to make a whole bunch of balanced recipes with whole foods. But if you’re on a budget, let us show you how to use some nutritional supplements to bring them in to balance your meals and bring your costs down dramatically. So we give people the options of if you’re in this space or if you’re over in this space, let’s start with some tablespoons and let’s try to make that bowl better.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
One question that I often get is, “Yeah, I want to give my dogs raw food, and maybe the easiest way is to go to a big box store like Costco or Walmart and buy the jumbo packs of chicken breasts. And that’s raw food, and that’s going to be better than the ultra-processed kibble.” But at the same time, I worry, and I want your opinion on this, these animals have been fed antibiotics and are loaded with herbicides and pesticides. Even though it might be raw, are we doing a disservice in doing that, or is there a balance? What say you?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Well, I’ll just jump in and say that any human food coming from any big box store has passed USDA inspection, and that’s a heck of a lot better quality than what dogs and cats are currently eating, which is called feed grade. When foods are inspected in the US, if they pass, they go into the human food chain. All of the foods that fail inspection go into feed; not just dog and cat feed, but chicken feed, pig feed. We feed our animals the leftovers run off and failed foods from the human food supply. So if you think that mycotoxins and pesticide loads are heavy in human foods at Costco-
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Just wait.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
… every bag of dog and cat food is substantially worse. So what I would say is if you can afford to buy afford organic, free-range, ethically sourced, great. If you can’t, the quality of human grade food that you’re buying anywhere is still substantially better than what you’re buying at big box pet food stores, hands down better, because it’s passed inspection.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Good to know. All right. All right, dogs, Costco chicken tonight. No. I got to wrap it up pretty soon, but I want to bring up an interesting study in the book. Now, similar to we humans, it’s not just about what your dogs eat, but when. We talked a little bit about this last time. Tell me about time-restricted eating in dogs. Is that cruel, or is that a good idea?
Rodney Habib:
First and foremost, if you want to get dog moms sitting outside your house with swords waiting to cut you up, tell them to only feed their dogs once a day, which was the struggle that we initially had when we were trying to introduce this concept of time-restricted feeding, intermittent fasting, whatever you want to call it.
Dr. Gundry, the Dog Aging Project in the United States did the largest feeding frequency trial of its kind, with 24,000 dogs. And what they found in the studies were that dogs that were fed once a day, they were less likely to suffer age-related diseases, eating once a day. But this can be a really big struggle for folks when you try to tell them that, right: “Hey, we’ve got studies to show that your dogs potentially can live longer if you only fed them once a day.” So when we sat down with Dr. Satchin Panda at the Salk Institute, and we talked about this, he brought up that feeding window, Dr. Becker, of six to eight hours, if you may?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Kitties are obligate carnivores. Dogs are scavenging carnivores. They are not ruminants. So cows, horses, ruminant animals, vegan animals need to be eating a little bit all the time. They’re nibbling, they’re grazing throughout the day. And there are some animals that grazing is a biologically appropriate behavior. Dogs and cats are not physiologically grazers. They are meant to feast and then fast. The problem is, Dr. Gundry, in the US, we tend to put a bowl of carbohydrate-based food down and say, “Have at it.” And dogs and cats tend to nibble throughout the day, which means they’re constantly having higher blood sugar. They’re constantly releasing insulin. They’re nibbling and snacking throughout the day, which causes a lot of metabolic stress.
So our happy medium between the Dog Aging study results saying once a day feeding is best, and the world melting down and saying, “That’s cruel,” we follow, Dr. Satchin Panda’s advice, who said, “Create a six to eight hour window. And if you want to feed your dog three meals, feed them within that six to eight hour window.” So if your dog is used to breakfast, lunch and dinner, cram all those calories in, get all those daily calories in during that specific window, which means you’re giving the rest of the day the autophagy and the body’s ability to clean up, rest, repair and restore. And that’s a really nice balance of getting all the benefits of an eating window without feeling like you’re denying your animal anything; always remembering you’re not ever reducing calories unless your goal is to help your dog lose weight. You’re feeding the same number of calories, you’re just doing so in a window that allows for optimum wellbeing the rest of the day.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Good answer. I’m going home and starving my dogs right now. I have so many action plans. No.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
[inaudible 00:35:34] yes.
Rodney Habib:
Your wife will say, “That is the last time you’re inviting those guys.”
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Exactly, exactly. However, Dr. Gundry, if your dog is used to eating every 40 minutes, that is when you do a sniffari.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
There you go.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Then you can replace snack time with sniff time, and that’s a great way to fill the brain, move the body, and not think about food.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Before I let you go, as you know, we have an audience question every week, and it turns out we got one for you. So both of you, you get to answer. This is from Voyage Vixens, who asked, “Dr. G, you recommend supplements for humans, but what about for my dog? What supplements do you give your dog? And which is most important if I can only afford one or two?” All right, each want one of those, or what do you want?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
That’s a good question. I will go first. I believe that dogs and cats, the most deficient nutrient in their bodies is really DHA and EPA. The omega-3 fatty acids, DHA and EPA, they are not found and adequate amounts in any ultra-processed foods, because AFCO doesn’t require them to be there, so they’re not added. They also go rancid. They’re sensitive to heat and light. So I believe the best thing pet parents can add at the time of feeding is a sustainably sourced, purity checked source of DHA and EPA. That’s basically a marine oil that is critically important for about every eye function, skin and coat, immune function, GI function, anti-inflammatory function, maintains joint stability. Dogs and cats are across the board deficient in omega-3 fatty acids. So I would say regardless of what food you’re feeding, add in a good quality omega-3, and even rotate. Rotate the types of omega-3s. Rodney?
Rodney Habib:
Yeah. You know what I would add to that too, Dr. Gundry, people need to be very careful with the misinformation in the pet food industry. They know that omega-3s are very, very sensitive and can go rancid. So they’ll put a tiny drop of a form of some sort of plant oil. I know companies now are putting canola oil on the bag, saying, “We’re giving your dogs a rich source of omega-3.” Can you imagine? So this is a big misconception that’s happening in the pet space, that’s duping a lot of pet parents. So just a word of caution as a pet owner to be careful when you’re reading label claims.
I would add, if I had to pick my favorite supplement today, I’m such a stickler, Dr. Gundry, of indoor air pollution and home pollution. I have so many air filters in here. I try to keep the most pristine household, but you can’t avoid things. If you’re frying foods, you’ve got acryline spreading everywhere in the home. Scented cleaners, I mean, I avoid those, but I know how many pet parents out there have no idea that scented candles, air fresheners, toilet bowl cleaners, detergents, disinfectants, so many things that are bombarding the immune system on a daily basis … I think it’s critical. One of the things that I use to detoxify my pet is milk thistle. It might be one that’s hard for a lot of people. They might not even know what it is, but what a great herb to rotate in and out of your diet. And what’s cool about it is you can validate it on blood work. When you take your dog into their veterinarian and you get those liver enzymes recorded, you can see six weeks of milk thistle. You can drop those liver enzymes if they’re escalated by detoxing the body of all of those environmental pollutants the best way possible, with a round of milk thistle.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah. And I use milk thistle in my patients. It’s a cousin of artichoke, in case anybody’s curious. So yeah, and it works great for both phase one and phase two liver detoxification enzymes, so all right.
Rodney Habib:
What I found fascinating was … I know I keep bringing up the blue zones, but they found those folks in Sardinia, one of the staples that they drank all the time, milk thistle tea. Maybe it’s irony. Who knows?
Dr. Steven Gundry:
And of course, the Acciaroli love rosemary in everything. My dogs like rosemary, by the way. So there you go. Well, this has been great. And again, it’s great seeing you again, and thank you for sharing all your work with us and the dog parents out there. And just to remind everybody, the only prescription that I enjoy writing for my patients is a prescription to get a dog. And I literally write it on a prescription blank. And many of my patients bring it back framed as the only prescription from a doctor that was useful to their life. So keep doing what you’re doing. There you go.
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
Love it. Love it. Well, thank you so much. It’s been a joy, as always. We always enjoy interacting with you. And we love your audience because they are so in love with their dogs. They want to provide their animals the same care that they provide the rest of their family, and we really appreciate that.
Rodney Habib:
We always love the opportunity to come and talk science with you, and I look forward to creeping your Instagram to see if you’re ever going to create that sardine blueberry surprise for your dogs.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Yeah, maybe I’ll post it coming up. Stay tuned, okay?
Dr. Karen Shaw Becker:
All right.
Dr. Steven Gundry:
Okay. Now, it’s time for the review of the week. This one comes from MarySuto6963 on YouTube. She watched my last episode with Rodney and Dr. Becker and said, “My gut instinct five years ago after changing kibble food many times was, ‘Why am I feeding my dog this highly processed junk?’ My dog had major issues with digestive issues. I started making his food at home from scratch. I learned as I went what he could tolerate and what he couldn’t. Of course, I did research on what was dangerous as well. I won’t say he has never had another digestive issue, but he is 80% better, and he’s eating real food. I add stuff like sardines, egg yolks, salmon, and he looks at me like I am God. Thank you for this video.”
Well, that’s why I like to have Dr. Becker and Rodney on, because I think they’re giving us actionable items to take care of our most important companions in our life. And anything that we can do to improve the health of our loved ones, I want you to know about. So thanks for writing in. We’ll hopefully hear from you that you liked this episode as much or maybe more, because I’m Dr. Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you. We’ll see you next week.
Speaker 1:
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