Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast, the weekly podcast where Dr. G gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life.
Dr. Gundry (00:13):
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Well, one in every 10 women suffer from endometriosis, a complex, lifelong, and often, incredibly uncomfortable disease. And unfortunately, many women go years without receiving a proper diagnosis, and are left in the dark about ways to manage their condition, even if the diagnosis is made. So whether you’re a man or a woman, pay attention. What we’re about to share today could help someone you love, or you might even be living with them right now, or it might be you.
That’s right. My guest today says that there is hope for all women with endometriosis, and that for many, life altering surgeries and medical procedures may not be the only answer. She’s Jessica Murnane, a sought-after speaker, host, and women’s health advocate. She’s also the author of the new book, Know Your Endo, an empowering guide to health and hope with endometriosis.
Today, Jessica will share her unique story, navigating life with endometriosis. She’ll also share how diet movement and effective stress management can help women across the globe manage their symptoms and take back control of their body. I’ve got a lot of important things to talk to you about today, so stay tuned. I’ll be right back.
If you’ve been listening to our great podcast from day one, or even if this is your first time listening, I would love to hear what brings you back. I’m committed to helping everyone live a healthy, nutritious life, and I want your help to spread the word. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, and if you do, you can win a prize pack worth nearly $250. It includes my Gundry MD Polyphenol-Rich Olive Oil, our incredible Gundry-Approved Pancake Mix, Multi-Purpose Bread Mix, our Lectin-Free Vegetable Broth, and of course, the outstanding caviar of olive oil, otherwise known as my Gundry MD Polyphenol Pearls. Plus, we’re going to throw in an exclusive sample of my brand new Gundry-approved snack bars.
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Jessica, it’s so great to have you on, and great to see you again.
Jessica Murnane (04:29):
I know. I’m so excited to be here.
Dr. Gundry (04:33):
You’ve actually gone from being on the verge of a hysterectomy to finding ways to manage your symptoms from home, and that’s amazing. And tell us a bit about your health journey and why you decided to write the book.
Jessica Murnane (04:50):
Yeah, I wasn’t diagnosed with endo until I was around 28 or 29 years old. And it’s really common with endo. Most people, the average time is 10 years for diagnosis, eight doctors for diagnosis. I wasn’t really even searching for the endo diagnosis because I had never even heard the word before. And it wasn’t until multiple trips to the emergency room, and now, I know I had cysts that had ruptured, that I had an ER doctor say, “Hey, this might be something else, I’m going to connect you with this doctor,” and then that doctor connected me with a gynecologist, and I was finally able to get diagnosed.
But the key thing is, in this endo, is just because you have a diagnosis, that doesn’t mean that you automatically feel better. It’s just an answer. And I really went into a pretty dark place after my diagnosis, not because of the diagnosis itself, but because my pain didn’t get any better after having that initial surgery. And I’m sure we’ll explore this, but there’s two different types of surgeries for endometriosis. There’s ablation and there’s excision. And I didn’t know that there was a difference. And so, I was just… I had multiple surgeries. It was not getting any butter. My doctor gave me hysterectomy and hormone therapy as a solution.
And I was going to get the hysterectomy before a friend sent me a link to a website that talked about whole foods, more plants helping manage pain. And I want to be clear that food and movement, and all these things that we’re going to talk about, it’s not going to be able to stop the endo from growing. But the key to all of my work and for myself is to have more good days than bad, because with endo, it can be pretty brutal some days.
Dr. Gundry (06:46):
Let’s stop for a sec.
Jessica Murnane (06:48):
Yeah.
Dr. Gundry (06:48):
You and I know what endometriosis is. In fact, believe it or not, I’ve personally operated on endometriosis as a thoracic surgeon.
Jessica Murnane (06:58):
Oh, wow.
Dr. Gundry (06:59):
I’ve operated on women who had endometriosis at the top of their lungs, and they actually popped the hole in their lung from their endometriosis, and their lung collapsed. And so, can you believe it, a thoracic surgeon operates on women’s endometriosis? But let’s have you tell everybody listening, what the heck is endometriosis in layman’s terms, perhaps?
Jessica Murnane (07:27):
Sure. Endometriosis is when the type of tissue that lines your uterus grows onto the outside of the uterus. As you mentioned, in some severe cases, it can grow onto someone’s lungs. It can grow onto your appendix. Bowels are a huge issue for a lot of people with endo. It grows onto there a lot. And so what’s interesting is, is that with endo, the hallmark classic symptom that you see everywhere is painful periods. But not everyone with endo has painful periods. In fact, a lot of people that have it on the diaphragm, they’re experiencing shoulder pain and breathing issues, and they’re not even having painful periods. I think that definitely lengthens the time of diagnosis because we’re having all these other types of symptoms that aren’t even connected to, or what we don’t think is connected to a gynecological disorder.
Dr. Gundry (08:21):
Yeah, I think that’s a very good observation. It’s almost, this is tissue that would normally be stimulated every month by the hormonal cycle to get ready for an egg to implant inside your uterus. But for unfortunate women, this tissue can, if you will, leak outside the uterus and end up in all sorts of crazy places.
Jessica Murnane (08:50):
Right, and-
Dr. Gundry (08:50):
Yeah, as a general surgeon, you’re right, we’ve operated on women, where you mentioned, it grows up underneath the diaphragm, on top of the liver, or on top of the stomach, and they present as if they’re having a gallbladder attack, or they present with, “Oh, you’ve got an ulcer in your stomach, or you’ve got a cancer in your colon.” And as general surgeons, we go in there and go, “Oh, look at that. She’s got a hunk of uterine tissue where it’s not supposed to be.”
And you’re right, it’s very frustrating. And I don’t want to interrupt you, but it can do so many things to mimic other things that… As you know, one of my missions is empowering women to get listened to. And this is one of those things where women are not listened to. That’s why you got this forum. What happened, so people kept saying, “Oh, here’s another operation for you,” and you finally said, “Maybe not”?
Jessica Murnane (10:04):
Well, I didn’t say maybe not because I did not have any faith that anything would help me. When my friends sent me that link to changing my diet, I was pissed off of even attempting a diet change. I thought, “I’ll try this for a couple of weeks. It’s not going to work. I’ll just get the hysterectomy anyway.” And at that time, and this is something else, it’s important to mention that you’ll see on top hospital websites that a treatment for endometriosis is a hysterectomy. But if you just remove the uterus and you don’t actually exercise the endo, that’s not going to solve the problem because that endo is outside of the uterus. It’s one of those sliding door moments where I think if I hadn’t just tried it, even tried it in anger to make these changes, I probably would have gotten a hysterectomy, and I don’t know where I would be right now. I could be in the same amount of pain as I was before.
Dr. Gundry (11:04):
Yeah, that makes a good point, just taking out your uterus if these little seeds of endometrium are elsewhere, but that’s not going to solve the problem.
Jessica Murnane (11:20):
Right. And that’s the issue, is there’s so much misinformation out there about endometriosis, where they’re saying a hysterectomy is a treatment. And this is happening in 2021. Doctors are telling patients to get pregnant as a treatment. A baby is not a treatment for a condition. It’s a very… And so this is why this work is so important to me, because I think when we talk about these things, so many people don’t understand what the symptoms even are. 90% of people with endo experience GI issues. If you’re having GI issues, you’re not going to your gynecologist, you’re going to a GI specialist. It’s so important to know the symptoms. And so you can kind of look down this list and say, “Wow, check, check, check. This might be something that I need to talk to my gynecologist about.”
Dr. Gundry (12:13):
Why don’t we go with that? You and I have both kind of touched on that. What are the common symptoms that often get missed or get misdiagnosed?
Jessica Murnane (12:25):
Right. Painful periods is obviously the classic symptom. Not everyone with endo has painful periods. Painful sex, urinary issues, meaning retention, urgency, frequency, painful bowel movements, painful urination, fatigue. Fatigue is probably one of the biggest ones. And I mention this so often because I want every person with endo to hear this, that so many people don’t know that fatigue is a symptom, and they just think that they’re lazy or unmotivated. But when you have that much inflammation in your body, it’s going to get fatigued if we’re not able to manage that inflammation. Infertility is another huge symptom of endometriosis. A lot of people with endo can have children, but a lot of people that don’t experience painful periods, they’re not diagnosed with endo until they start having fertility issues.
Dr. Gundry (13:19):
And does anybody know why endometriosis per se can prompt infertility? Are there theories?
Jessica Murnane (13:31):
Yeah. I mean, I definitely explore those in the book. And it’s interesting, because with endometriosis, there’s so much that we still don’t know. And there’s just a lot of theories happening. Like, there’s five different theories as to why endometriosis happens, and we still just don’t know. And I think most of the doctors that I spoke to and interviewed for the book, everyone just believes it could potentially be a multifactorial situation, where it’s some genetics and some immunity. It’s some… We don’t know the cause for some of these things. The book really explores these in depth because… But it’s a weird thing to say in depth because it’s also saying, “We’re still not sure.”
Dr. Gundry (14:14):
Gotcha. The diagnosis, number one, is just a starting point. But, how do you make the diagnosis? What finally prompts somebody to go looking for this?
Jessica Murnane (14:31):
Well, I think that, one, if you’re able to be a great advocate for yourself and push and push and push. I think second, if you find a doctor that is really listening to you, or even mentions the word endometriosis to you. I get frustrated sometimes because when you go to a gynecologist’s office, you have a pamphlet on breast cancer, STDs, ovarian cancer. There is no pamphlet on endometriosis, at least in all the doctor’s offices I’ve been to. And this is happening to one in 10 women.
I think that getting to the point of the diagnosis is one thing, actually getting that diagnosis is another because it can’t be done via blood test, MRI, ultrasound. We have to go inside, look at the inside of your body with a microscope through your belly button. And for some, that is not a possibility, whether it’s through insurance or time off work.
And so getting to the point of the diagnosis is one thing, getting the diagnosis is another. And then, what do you do after that? I think that we haven’t touched on it yet, but the mental health impact of this is huge. And just receiving the information that you have endo, that comes with so much more than just the physical pain.
Dr. Gundry (15:54):
Gotcha. You mentioned in the book about a BBC study, which I’ve actually looked up, and that’s a fascinating study. Speaking of mental health aspects, can you talk about that?
Jessica Murnane (16:11):
Yeah. They interviewed over 13 and a half 1,000 people with endo, and nearly half said that they had had suicidal thoughts. And that is a significant number. And I think so many people that I’ve told about that study say, “Why do you think that is?” And I think there’s a lot of contributing factors. I think it’s waking up and living in chronic pain every day. I think it’s not having your pain believed. I think the financial toll of endo can be huge. I think it’s so important, I think, with mental health to get the help you need, ask for help, and to start to develop tools that can potentially calm the issues that you’re having.
Dr. Gundry (16:54):
Painful periods, everybody knows that for many women, periods can be painful, and that’s a part of life, and suck it up, et cetera, et cetera. Take your Midol, or whatever. How do you differentiate endometriosis pain from garden-variety menstrual pain?
Jessica Murnane (17:27):
Yeah, well, one of the doctors that I interviewed for the book, Dr. Goldstein, who is an endo surgeon, she said to me, “If Aleve and Motrin, and these types of things are not doing anything for you, we have an issue,” because I think a lot of people that have painful periods, maybe they even take the holistic route, and down a bunch of [inaudible 00:17:49], and a bunch of anti-inflammatory, but it might help them a little bit. When you have endo, generally with the painful periods, it’s knocking you out. And I think this is without any sort of management practices or a great surgery.
But yeah, it’s debilitating. And I think what’s tricky is, is that so many people with endo have a parent, or a grandparent, or an aunt, or a sister that also have endo. Those are their period role models. I mean, for myself, my mom had terrible period pain. And so, I thought, “Well, that’s normal when you have your periods.” I went for a very long time thinking that this is what it is, you just have painful periods that might black you out at some point during the day. Yeah, it’s significant pain. And I think the fatigue, again, is a huge component of it.
Dr. Gundry (18:41):
I think it’s a great point, this does run in families, that it’s not… We don’t know if it’s “hereditary”, but it does definitely runs. And so you may be, or our listener may be in a situation where her mother said, “Oh, yeah, every month, this is going to be painful. And that’s the way it is. And I got through it, and you’ll get through it. And it’s part of being a woman.” Where do you just go beyond that and seek out more information?
Jessica Murnane (19:22):
I think by listening to a podcast like this. I think, seeing the word and thinking, “Oh, my gosh, maybe it’s not normal to not be able to go to work on my period, going…” I remember in high school, I would go home from school the first two days of my period, like clockwork every time. I think you can get to a point where you say, “I can’t do this every single month for the rest of my menstrual cycle. That’s not a life to live.” And I think, so many of us with endo, I think we really, really hit rock bottom before we’re able to start to dig ourselves out.
Dr. Gundry (20:02):
Yeah. I think another thing you mentioned that I think really does deserve attention, a number of my patients with endometriosis, one of the tipping points for them was painful sex.
Jessica Murnane (20:18):
Oh my gosh, yes.
Dr. Gundry (20:19):
Yeah, and that somehow it became they were advised that, “Well, that’s just a part of it. Get over it, or live through it.” And that’s not what’s supposed to happen. And it was actually that, that they kept saying, “Well, I want to participate in this part of our relationship, but this is ridiculous. This is horrible.” Sex isn’t supposed to hurt, right?
Jessica Murnane (20:52):
Right. But what’s interesting is not interesting, it’s horrible. When I first started having sex in college, I went to a doctor, and I told her that I had painful sex. And this is before I was diagnosed with endo. And she said I just needed to relax more in bed. For a very long time, until I was diagnosed, I thought I was a prude. I thought I just needed to relax more, there was something wrong with me. And I do think that’s a great point. I think that when it comes with endo, we sometimes miss out on so much of our life, like having sex, going to birthday parties, going on vacation, that we get to a point where like, “I’m not able to see my friends and family because of this. This is interrupting my career, my relationships. Something has to be done.”
Dr. Gundry (21:42):
All right, what do you say to all the skeptics that say, “Oh, come on, this is all in your head. It can’t be that bad. You’re just hysterical”? And I’m sure you’ve been told this.
Jessica Murnane (21:56):
Definitely, and I always share the story. I interviewed a woman, [Lynette 00:22:01] in my book that wasn’t diagnosed until she was 53. And at that point, her organs had fused together, and they had to take out part of her colon. This isn’t something that’s in our heads. This is infiltrating our bodies, creating a lot of pain and discomfort. And, like you said, I also like to reference that it can spread to your lungs, and have your lungs collapse. I think if you were to tell a person, it doesn’t have to be a man, “This could make your lungs collapse,” all of a sudden, they’re listening, because it’s not just about periods anymore.
Dr. Gundry (22:35):
Now, we know that this isn’t just in your head, although in a way, it gets into your head because of this anticipation of every month, “Here it comes again.” Help our listeners and viewers. How do you deal with this from a psychological standpoint?
Jessica Murnane (23:02):
Well, I definitely practice a lot of stress management tools. And those really helped me calm my body. And it’s not meditating twice a day. I mean, my stress management tools are everything from doing Legos with my son, to doing puzzles, to taking an edible, and watching TV in bed. I mean, they’re things that I enjoy that help me calm my body down. Because in my book, there’s a whole stress chapter. And as we know, increased stress can increase pain. It’s so important to me to make my self a priority. And if that means I have a sauna blanket that I get in every couple of days a week, I really make the time to care for myself. And I think that I didn’t do that before. And I think it’s hard to do that when you have a career, and kids, and a family. But if I don’t make my stress management a priority, I’m going to be in bed. And I’ve had to learn that the hard way. I think stress management is huge for me, movement is huge for me.
And in the movement chapter, I love that chapter so much because moving your body with endo is so important, because we’re so clenched and hunched and protecting ourselves at all times that we’re really tightening up those muscles and joints even more. And that’s just increasing our pain. I’m not out running marathons. I’m jumping on a trampoline. I’m using a foam roller. I’m doing gentle Pilates. And that was a huge mindset shift for me. Because I think when we look at social media, there’s people climbing ropes and flipping tires, and we think that that’s what we have to do to move our bodies, but we can do it in a way that works for our body.
Dr. Gundry (24:52):
What about people who say, “Well, it hurts so much during this time, that movement hurts me, so I avoid movement”? Which-
Jessica Murnane (25:02):
Definitely. I mean, in the book, I talk… I’m sure you’re familiar with these studies of the pain-avoidance model, the fear of pain increasing by moving. And they did a study with people that had a lot of chronic back pain. And by avoiding that movement, we just continue to avoid it because we’re afraid that it’ll increase our pain. And over time, it actually will increase your pain by avoiding it. Like I said, there are days when I’m in pain, and I bring my foam roller in my bed with me, and I roll out. I will put my legs and butt up against the wall, and I just do whatever I can to move my body in a way that I can do it. And that might just be stretching. And I’m okay with that now. And I really have adapted more of a pacing mentality as opposed to this black and white all-or-nothing.
Dr. Gundry (25:59):
All right. Any other techniques that are important for the mental and physical adaptions that you need to do?
Jessica Murnane (26:12):
Yeah. I mean, I also talk a lot in the book about self-compassion, and Dr. Kristin Neff, who’s really pioneering that work. And to be clear, when I first learned about self-compassion, I thought it was standing in front of the mirror and saying that you’re beautiful. But really what self-compassion is, is retraining your brain to say, “I’m here to care for you.” And her work is so compelling, because it’s really showing how just waking up and saying, “What do you need today?” We can really rewire our brain to care for ourselves better. And so, I do a lot of self-compassion. Instead of beating myself up because I look very tired, or I can’t move my body, I say, “What do you need right now?” And that might be a little bit more blush, it might be my Lucy’s pair of pants. And it has really changed how I take care of myself, because beating yourself up doesn’t help anything.
Dr. Gundry (27:07):
Sounds like our former senator from Minnesota from Saturday Night Live, “Because I’m good enough.” And I won’t go there, but you can just look in the mirror and work on this, huh?
Jessica Murnane (27:26):
Well, but to me, it’s not looking in the mirror and saying, “I’m great.” Self-compassion is laying in bed and asking yourself, “What do you need right now?” And for me, the mantras and things like that, they don’t really always impact me. Being able to just ask myself what I need, and then doing that, that’s what’s helping me.
Dr. Gundry (27:49):
Okay, so you’re a busy mom?
Jessica Murnane (27:51):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Gundry (27:52):
How do you get through this when your kid needs you, and you really don’t want to do that? Where’s the motivating factor?
Jessica Murnane (28:06):
Well, I definitely have a supportive partner, which helps, but I also… And I never put this burden on my son of me having my period, but I also make him very aware of what periods are, and when it’s happening. And we do something, where it’s on the first day of my period, he gets to watch cartoons in bed with me. And it’s kind of a fun thing. He’ll actually say, “Did you start your period today?” Because it’s something now that we get to do together. And I wrote in the book, there’s times when he’s eating breakfast, and I’m laying on the floor foam-rolling next to him, because it’s a way of us still connecting, but still caring for myself. I think I really have a lot of people that reach out to me a lot that fear parenting with a chronic illness. And I understand that, but I think what’s so cool is, is that we can also show our kids making yourself a priority and really prioritizing your health, because if we’re able to do that, we’re just going to be better parents. And I’m not saying it’s always easy, but I find that working those things into our life, and sometimes doing them together, it’s really been helpful.
Dr. Gundry (29:21):
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Jessica Murnane (33:39):
Okay.
Dr. Gundry (33:40):
You and I both know the power of food.
Jessica Murnane (33:44):
Yes.
Dr. Gundry (33:44):
When did you first make the connection between your endometriosis symptoms and your diet?
Jessica Murnane (33:54):
Well, it was that link that my friend sent to me about the hour of food and endometriosis. And there aren’t a lot of studies out there to show that there is a link between endo and whole foods, or more plant-based foods, but we do have a lot of studies that show lower inflammatory foods can help inflammatory conditions. I’ve had pretty prominent doctors tell me that my story is anecdotal and there’s no studies to prove it. I don’t really need a study. I’m able to get out of bed. I know that changing my diet has changed my entire life. And I think that there’s a basic logic to the fact of, I have an inflammatory condition, and I eat lower inflammatory foods. And it’s completely changed my life. And I didn’t like doing it in the beginning. It was very, very difficult, because my diet was pizza and candy and frozen meals, but I slowly made the transition. And after I did that, there was just no turning back.
Dr. Gundry (34:59):
Yeah. Once you kind of started this transition, how long did it take for you to notice a difference?
Jessica Murnane (35:06):
I mean, it was pretty quick, because like I said, my diet was candy, and soda, and frozen meals. I wasn’t going from smoothies to better smoothies, I was at the bottom level of eating healthy. I definitely noticed a change. And I would say, the biggest change for me was just feeling more awake, it was just having less fatigue. In the beginning, it didn’t necessarily knock out all my cramps, but it made me feel actually alive again, and wanting to be able to function in the world. I think it kind of helped mainly with my mental health, because I was able to get out of bed, which meant I could move my body again, which meant my depression was a little bit better. It was really a domino effect.
But I’m not even sure how long it took, I just know I instantly felt so much better. And I think it’s also important to note that, like I said, food is not going to stop your endo from growing, it is a management tool. I still, even with a great diet, and still moving my body, I still have pain sometimes. I just had a giant cyst that they found a couple years ago, but I still am continuing these practices because it helps me get out of bed every day and live my best life with endo.
Dr. Gundry (36:27):
Yeah, that’s actually… Most of my patients with endometriosis come to me because either they’ve noticed that the Plant Paradox has worked for them, and then they want to learn more, or they come to me with chronic fatigue, and it’s actually from their endometriosis. And that’s how we get into it. And, oh, by the way, eating a lectin-limited diet has made a huge difference for them.
Jessica Murnane (36:56):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
Dr. Gundry (36:59):
Yeah, and we see the same thing actually with other chronic inflammation conditions, like chronic Lyme. A lot of us believe that once chronic Lyme sets in, you’re dealing with an inflammatory condition, and reducing inflammation is the key to making that work or go away.
Jessica Murnane (37:22):
Right.
Dr. Gundry (37:23):
You got any favorite lectin-free foods or recipes?
Jessica Murnane (37:30):
Well, let me-
Dr. Gundry (37:30):
For those of you who are watching, I think in the Plant Paradox Cookbook, several of your recipes made a appearance, if I remember correctly.
Jessica Murnane (37:40):
Yeah. Well, one of my favorite recipes in your cookbook was… Its sauteed greens with coconut milk and a little bit of vinegar. It’s just really kind of tangy greens.
Dr. Gundry (37:52):
Oh, yeah.
Jessica Murnane (37:52):
I mean, that’s one of my favorites that I have at least once a week. Yeah, I mean, I really keep it pretty simple in terms of how I eat. And I think in Know Your Endo, not everything is lectin-free, but it’s definitely low lectins too. If you’re going lectin-free, there’s definitely swaps that you can make in there.
Dr. Gundry (38:12):
Great. All right. You say in the book that there’s no specific endo diet that works for everybody, but how do people figure out what works, what doesn’t work? What’s your guide?
Jessica Murnane (38:27):
I mean, it’s definitely trial and error. I mean, the title of that chapter is called Good Foods. And the mission of that book is for you to find foods that don’t make you feel bad. It’s really that simple. I don’t want to lay out, “This is the endo diet that will work for all,” because I’m sure with your own patients, some people that drink coffee don’t feel an impact at all, where other people, it completely destroys them. The same thing with eggs. I can’t eat eggs. They immediately give me extreme issues, where other people are able to eat eggs just fine. I think that what I like to suggest is, is to really get down to the basics of whole foods. It first start with eliminating the big… I call them the big BIs, the big inflammatories, and then take it from there, because I think something also that we have to think about is, so many people with endo have significant GI issues, and SIBO is a huge condition for people with endo. You might see that garlic is anti-inflammatory, but garlic for you might make you feel worse. We really have to start to really think about, “How does this food make me feel?” And sometimes, we don’t necessarily always like the answers. Like, I don’t like that sugar makes me feel bad. I used to love candy, but I came to terms with the fact that it doesn’t make me feel great.
And so last night, I actually went to a birthday party. It was outside at my friend’s house, and everyone is drinking wine and feeling great, but for my endo, alcohol is a no-go for me. And it took me a while to come to terms with that. But last night, it felt kind of good to just pop open of sparkling water, and just be able to enjoy it without the stress of wanting to drink, but know it makes me feel bad. It can take some time to find peace with that.
Dr. Gundry (40:18):
Yeah, good point. You’ve got the top 10 tricks to make your grocery shopping less stressful. Give us a few of your top 10 best tricks.
Jessica Murnane (40:33):
Well, I came up with the top 10 pantry ingredients. That’s really my goal, is to have a list of 10 ingredients that you know, if you have in your fridge, you can make a meal in 20 minutes or less. For me, some of my top 10s are nut butters, veggie broth, nutritional yeast, these things that I know, “If I’ve got these ingredients and some veggies in the fridge, I can whip something up quick.” Because I think that when you’re starting to change your diet, and you’re starting to change other things in your life, you just need to make things simple. Like, I for one, never really cooked, so I wasn’t starting out with very elaborate 20-ingredient meals. I needed to start very, very basic. And the thing that helped me most was having this top 10 list. When I got to the grocery store, I didn’t feel overwhelmed with all the other things that I could buy.
Dr. Gundry (41:27):
Good advice. In my first book years ago, Dr. Gundry’s Diet Evolution, there’s some very fascinating research, that most people end up having five meals that they just rotate. And it’s always the same five. You may experiment with a bunch and bunch of stuff, but most people end up with about five meals, that that’s basically all they do. And I think that’s actually not something that you should feel bad about. You should say, “These these work for me.” And you’re right, they’re usually very easy, which is half the fun part of it. Yeah.
Jessica Murnane (42:09):
It’s the reason why I don’t think I ever want to write another cookbook. It’s like, “I gave you all my favorites. Here we are.”
Dr. Gundry (42:16):
That’s right. Thank you. No more questions. All right. The tools that you talk about in the book, how did implementing those tools change your life? And what have you noticed when other people have implemented those tools?
Jessica Murnane (42:35):
Oh my gosh. I know you get all these emails all the time, and you actually are a physician, so you’re getting to get the face-to-face interaction, but I think that one of the things that I get the most feedback on with these tools is people just sharing that they don’t feel as alone, and understanding that there isn’t one exact plan for everyone, because I think that that… We look online, and we read so many books that this is this prescriptive, this is the way for all. And I think a lot of people that message me say, “I feel seen, I feel heard, and I also feel like I can make choices that feel best for myself.” And I think in my own journey, that’s what’s happened to me. I really thought that I had to do it a certain way, but I feel so much more light, and I feel so much more free-doing in my own way, and not really caring what anybody else thinks about it.
Dr. Gundry (43:30):
Perfect. In your book, you talk about celebrating your wins. I think that’s really important to do, no matter what we’re going through. And people know, in my office, when they reach some little milestone, they get a gold star actually. Sometimes on their forehead, they wear it out. What tips do you have for people to celebrate their wins if you’re not going to give them a gold star?
Jessica Murnane (44:02):
Well, the celebrate your wins, I actually, in the intro of the book, last year, pre-COVID, I had a celebrate your wins party at my house. And every person that walked into the door got a stack of Post-it Notes, and they had to write down a win that they felt proud of. And I think that we sometimes judge ourselves for feeling proud of things that we’ve accomplished. I think with endo, sometimes it’s especially hard to think of our wins. When we’re in chronic pain, we think, “Well, I can’t do this, I can’t do this, I can’t do this.” I think it’s so important to think about, “What can you do?” A win for me this week is I moved out of my house, and it didn’t knock me out the way that it might have before, because I was implementing my stress management tools while I was doing it, maybe not as much as I’d like to. That was a huge win for me.
I started on Instagram, on Wednesdays, we share an endo win that people send in. And one of my most favorite ones that someone shared the other week is that she said, “Instead of working 40 hours a week, I’m now working 36 hours a week. And I’m taking those four hours to care for myself and be with my family.” And that’s a huge win for her. They don’t have to be, “I ran a marathon.” It can be really simple things that are big to you.
Dr. Gundry (45:23):
All right, you mentioned Instagram, where can women with endo find a sense of community, or connect with others to share all about this?
Jessica Murnane (45:33):
Yeah, I have an account called Know Your Endo. And it’s a very, very great community of people. I also share a lot of other endo accounts. And I think what I love about Know Your Endo is that we do share a lot of information and facts, but we also share those wins that we’re talking about. And I think that we need to protect ourselves sometimes when we’re looking on Instagram, because there’s a lot of sadness that comes with endo, and if you’re constantly just seeing accounts that are sharing these devastating statistics and a lot of sadness, it’s not always best for the brain. I like that on my account and others that I promote. We have a nice balance.
Dr. Gundry (46:16):
Okay, so go to your account on Instagram. What’s it called? Just Know Your Endo?
Jessica Murnane (46:22):
Know Your Endo. Yep.
Dr. Gundry (46:23):
Okay. And do you have any other places people can find you?
Jessica Murnane (46:25):
Yeah, you can find me at jessicamurnane.com, and I’m also Jessica Murnane on endo… I mean, Jessica Murnane on Instagram. And then, always thinking about endo. And yeah, and then Know Your Endo, you can buy it wherever books are sold.
Dr. Gundry (46:40):
Okay. And please, like we say, please go to your local bookseller, if at all possible, because they’ve been devastated and they’re open now, so go buy there.
Jessica Murnane (46:55):
Because I do want people to shop more local, I actually have a signed copy option that you can get at my local bookstore, Blue Bicycle Books. And it’s so exciting, they had some of them biggest pre-orders that they’ve ever had for a book. And I think it’s offering that signed option is kind of a fun way to get people to shop local.
Dr. Gundry (47:13):
All right, so-
Jessica Murnane (47:14):
You can’t get a signed option with Amazon.
Dr. Gundry (47:16):
No, you can’t. If you’re in the Charleston area, go to Blue Bicycle Bookstore.
Jessica Murnane (47:23):
And they have an [inaudible 00:47:24] online option too. I have it on my website, where you can buy from them online as well.
Dr. Gundry (47:28):
And can they get a signed copy online [crosstalk 00:47:30]?
Jessica Murnane (47:30):
Yeah, I went in and I signed hundreds of them, so they’re ready to go.
Dr. Gundry (47:33):
All right, you heard it here first. All right, Jessica, it’s great to see you again, and thank you for coming on the show, and good luck with the book.
Jessica Murnane (47:42):
Thanks so much.
Dr. Gundry (47:42):
Yeah, thank you.
Jessica Murnane (47:44):
Bye.
Dr. Gundry (47:45):
Bye.
Okay, it’s time for our audience question. This week’s questions come from PJ LeBlanc on YouTube, who says, “What about cheat meals, cheat days? Let’s say I am following your diet, but once every week or two, I would like to eat a good, old pizza from the local pizzeria. Will doing so ruin everything, or is it acceptable?”
Well, here’s the deal with that. Everybody cheats, including yours truly. And I’ve actually posted from Italy on some of my cheats. I see how 80% of my patients have autoimmune diseases, and that’s kind of who ends up with me these days. If you have an autoimmune disease, cheating will set you back almost always. And I’ve documented this on myself, I can have a weekend cheat and activate markers of my autoimmune disease, and then I clean up my act. And a week later, they’re gone. And I can do this at will. Do I want to do this? No, but I do it in the interest of science. And I see this so many times with my autoimmune patients who have gone into remission, they’re doing great, and they go, “Well, I’m fine now. I’m cured. I can relax. I can let down my guard.” And almost invariably, their autoimmune markers come right back up. Many people absolutely positively notice when they cheat, and that oftentimes is what keeps you on the straight and narrow.
I’ll give you a great story real quick. My wife and I recently moved, and one of our traditions in moving houses is we get to have Mexican food, which we usually don’t eat, quite frankly. And it’s just been a tradition for many, many, many years. So we decided to have Mexican food. I took, I kid you not, eight of my lectin-blocking pills before we went. My wife said, “Oh, I don’t need it.” Well, needless to say, I did great. My wife, two hours after the Mexican food with her tortilla chips, et cetera, was in agonizing pain. And I said, “Don’t look at me. What did you do that for?”
And so, luckily, these things come back to bite you oftentimes. I guess that’s, if you have an autoimmune disease, please, please, please don’t cheat, it’s going to bite you. If you don’t have an autoimmune disease and you’re eating lectin-free, you’ll probably notice for the most part that you really didn’t enjoy that pizza as much as you thought you were going to. And next time, make a cauliflower crust pizza from the Plant Paradox Cookbook, and you’ll still like your pizza, and it will like you back. Great questions.
Speaker 4 (50:54):
Support for this podcast comes from Pluto TV. Ready to get away from it all? For yourself with Pluto TV, stream hundreds of channels and thousands of movies and shows all for free. Yeah, free. No contracts, no subscriptions, no fees. Imagine 24/7 channels of Narcos, CSI, Star Trek, Survivor, and everything else from hit movies to binge-worthy TV shows, the latest news, live sports, comedy, and more. What are you waiting for? Download the free Pluto TV app for Android or iPhone and start watching now. Pluto TV, drop in, watch free.
Kimberly Snyder (51:32):
Welcome to the Feel Good Podcast with Kimberly Snyder. My goal is to help you develop a holistic lifestyle based on our Four Cornerstone philosophy, food, body, emotional wellbeing, and spiritual growth. This holistic approach will help you feel good, which I define as being connected to your most authentic, highest self. And this is the place from which your energy, confidence, creativity, true power, and true beauty will start to explode.
Every week, we provide you with interviews from top experts in their field, or a solo cast from yours truly to support you in living your most beautiful, healthy, and joyful life. I’m your host Kimberly Snyder, founder of Solluna, New York Times bestselling author, and holistic wellness, nutrition, and meditation teacher. Let’s get started.
Dr. Gundry (52:23):
Time for the review of the week. This review comes from RubberWilbur on YouTube, who says, “I’ve lost 120 pounds since May of last year on the Plant Paradox, and I’ve got 40 more to go. This eating lifestyle is the only thing that has healed me from bed.” She has a binge-eating disorder. Bed, I like it. “I haven’t craved junk food in over 12 months now.” Wow, that’s absolutely amazing. RubberWilbur, you remind me of a truck driver and his wife. They’re both truck drivers who are long-haul truck drivers. They live in their truck. And they both have collectively lost over 200 pounds on my program. And they’re such an inspiration because they literally follow the Plant Paradox program while living on the road in their long-haul truck.
And they pulled it off, and they come in to see me. They drive their big rig into our parking lot, and they come and see me every six months. And so, good for you. You can do this no matter what your circumstances are, no matter what drove you to eat in the first place. And thank you so much for sending in the review, and I really appreciate it. You know, it’s reviews like this that help us reach a bigger audience for our transformative health message. So if you haven’t already, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. And while you’re there, feel free to drop in any health questions that you have, or let me know of your success. I’ll be sure to answer your questions in a future episode. And you know why I’m doing this? Because I’m Dr. Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you. We’ll see you next week.
Disclaimer. On the Dr. Gundry Podcast, we provide a venue for discussion, and the views expressed by my guests do not necessarily reflect my own.
Thanks for joining me on this episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Before you go, I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to watch each episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast, you could always find me on YouTube at youtube.com/drgundry, because I’m Dr. Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you.
