Unknown Speaker 0:00
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast, the weekly podcast where Dr. G gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life
Unknown Speaker 0:13
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast, you know, with so much focus on what, when and how to eat. There’s one component of nutrition that tends to be left behind. I’m talking about how you feel, particularly before, during and after you eat. The truth is the gut and the brain are very closely connected in problems with the gut can actually lead to mood swings, food cravings, and even feelings of anxiety or depression. The silver lining Well, according to my guest with the right food knowledge, you can not only transform your physical health, but your mental health as well. And that’s something for everyone. And I mean, everyone should be prioritizing. He’s Dr. We’ll call a leading functional medicine expert host of The Art of Being Well podcast and New York Times bestselling author. Today I’m excited to dive into his new book, gut feelings healing the shame fueled relationship between what you eat and how you feel. After a quick break Dr. Cohen, I will offer holistic tools to help you reevaluate your relationship with food and your body. Get back in touch with your gut feelings and bridge the gap between your emotions and health. So stay tuned. We’ll be right back.
Unknown Speaker 1:40
The Dr. Gundry podcast is brought to you by progressive most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yep. While you’re listening to me talk you’re probably also driving, cleaning, exercising or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you’re not in some kind of moving vehicle, there’s something else you can be doing right now. Getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance is easy. And you can save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who say by switching to progressive save nearly $700 On average, and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy being a homeowner and more so just like your favorite podcast progressive will be with you 24/7 365 days a year so you’re protected no matter what multitask right now quote your car insurance@progressive.com to join the over 29 million drivers who trust progressive progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $698 by new customer survey who saved with progressive between June 2021. And May 2022. potential savings will vary discounts not available at all states and situations.
Unknown Speaker 2:57
Dr. Cole, it’s great to have you back on the show. How are you my friend? I’m doing well. I thank you so much for having me back. And it was great to catch up with you. And I the only thing I’m sad about is the fact that it takes a podcast for us to catch up. But you know, I’ll take it. I’ll take it anyway. You could get a Dr. Gundry in my life one of these days. And you know, we’re starting to get back in person a bit and fingers crossed. Yeah. For years, I’ve been discussing the gut brain connection as you and many others. And I think it’s incredibly important for people to understand when was your aha moment when you realize that food might have such a big impact on emotional health, those of us that love seeing patients still and really immerse ourselves in cases. I think we’re a rare breed of health nerds that probably really predates even our profession. So for me, I grew up knowing this because I was this weird teenager in western Pennsylvania and would read all the latest books and research and things i i find at the local health food store to want to learn about this. And this is something that yes, you’re right. It’s so much more research than we had back then. But you know, there’s a reason why so much of research is really catching up with antiquity that even before the double blind trials and the exciting research that I talked about, and gut feelings, there was a lot of ancestral knowledge about this. I mean, I taught I kind of open up the book and talk about that somehow, our ancestors knew that gut was the seat of the soul, right? And we have amazing exciting studies to show that. But these phrases of gut instinct and gut feelings and I just feel it in my gut and butterflies in my stomach.
Unknown Speaker 4:50
That is part of our culture, right. And it’s this sort of vast remembering now of the power that the gut wields on our mood. Yeah, you know,
Unknown Speaker 5:00
I’m always talking, you know, Hippocrates, 2500 years ago said all disease begins in the gut. And interestingly, I’ve recently have a Buddhist scholar who’s become my patient. And we were talking about this one day and he says, You know, I actually, you mentioned Hippocrates saying this, he says, so I went back to some of the Sanskrit texts of Buddha. And Buddha actually said that enlightenment comes from the intestines. And they were Yeah. And they were actually, you know, they were contemporaries. And it’s like, holy cow, you know, how, how did a Western guy and an Eastern guy both know this? And it’s like, whoa, studying human experience, right? I mean, they just like probably countless of people studying and seeing connections. And, yeah, it’s beautiful. It’s actually beautiful to see, no matter where your ancestors are from in the world. It’s really a part of our heritage as human species. You know, I wrote about in the energy paradox and unlocking the Keto code, that there’s tons of research that you and I both know that emotional stress and depression can cause disorders of the intestinal system and vice versa. So let’s talk about how food and gut health can actually lead to mental issues or fix mental health issues. Yeah. So that’s that bidirectional crosstalk that I really want to dig deep on in this book, because I see it play out in patients lives all the time. And it’s always the question people, after I go over the labs and go over their health history, we talk about things like chronic stress in your life currently, or we look at the adverse childhood experience, score and kind of look at things that childhood trauma, maybe that may be unresolved. And the question often comes from patients, well, what came first, you know, what’s the chicken or the egg? How did I get here? And it’s these individual cases that you really have to look at what is the upstream issue? What what is it and I’m for most people, it’s going to be a bit of both. And it really doesn’t matter, you have to deal with both sides of that coin, right? You have to deal with the gut and the feelings, the physiological and the psychological, because the interplay between the two, oftentimes, that’s what gives rise to things like brain health issues, like anxiety, or brain fog, fatigue, depression, and autoimmune patients. And these are people that you and I really spend our lives really figuring out what are other pieces to their puzzle. And the reality is, it’s not just the physiological stuff, it is oftentimes the mental, emotional, spiritual things that are contributing to the dysregulation of their biochemistry. Now, this gut brain axis, and I would actually add the microbiome gut brain axis, because with every passing year, the microbiome influence on everything is unbelievably big. So what are the what are the top physiological disruptors that you write about in the book? Well, what I see the most clinically, if you’re looking at the gut side of that duality, obviously, assessing gut health is a major part of that, as most of your listeners know about 75% of the immune systems in the gut. Inflammation is a product of the immune system. So there’s a lot of, I find gut centric components to what’s causing a dysregulation of their immune system, ie like chronic inflammation going on downstream. So when we measure things like high sensitivity, C reactive protein, or other different inflammatory markers, oftentimes on everybody, and it’s multifactorial, it’s not just one thing, usually. But when you look at the gut, and you see things like intestinal permeability, or leaky gut syndrome, you see dysbiosis, bacterial overgrowth, maybe sometimes yeast and fungal overgrowth. So you’ll see. And sometimes you’ll see these calprotectin lactoferrin, these are immune markers, and they got spiked up and the person’s mean, yes, they could be going through digestive problems, we see a lot of inflammatory GI issues. But as you know, I mean, that’s just one end of a larger continuum. I mean, there’s many people that quote unquote, go to the bathroom. All right, is what they say. But when you look at their gut, you’ll see the upstream root components that their second brain their gut, is actually causing some downstream impacting of, let’s say, their mood or the inflammation level. So yeah, it’s, it’s profound. So looking at gut health is important. And then we deal a lot with mold toxicity or mycotoxins because our patients tend to be, as I’m sure you see two people that have different methylation gene variants, or HLA gene variants, they tend to be more biotoxin sensitive, and then that paired with an unhealthy gut and then they get exposed to some other biotoxin like mold, or sometimes we’ll obviously see chronic Lyme disease for people that are struggling with that and it’s typically a combination of bio toxins ie bacteria by
Unknown Speaker 10:00
IRA and mold issues, and for many people, and environmental toxin commode component two is that they sort of pick these things up along the way of living in our very polluted world. And it’s contributing to the inflammatory response in the body that can be impacting their mood, but also their energy levels, and, of course, their immune system. Now, one of the things you mentioned in the book, tell me about the polyvagal theory, and why that would matter to you, me and our listeners is the way in, it’s to describe and understand the way that stress and trauma unresolved trauma can be stored in the body and how it exists on a continuum. Like most things that we’re talking about within health, let me just define it first, the vagus nerve is the largest cranial nerve in the body. And it’s responsible for our parasympathetic nervous system, right? The resting the digesting the more hormone balance or circadian rhythm throughout the day, the anti inflammatory mechanisms in many ways to and in both the parasympathetic and the sympathetic are both important, there’s nothing wrong with the sympathetic, but it’s about regulation between the two. And the problem is most people find themselves in an over activation of that sympathetic nervous system that fight or flight stressed state and a weak parasympathetic response. So what the researchers will call a poor vagal tone or low vagal tone is basically a weak Vegas vagus nerve, that that parasympathetic, that resting digesting chilled out state is hypoactive. It’s not working the way that we liked to be. So polyvagal shows all the way from ventral vagal function to dorsal vagal function, it’s showing the body being in this sympathetic hyper activation. So it is not a new theory, actually, at all. But I think the growing research around trauma and its impact on physical health, I think some of the older research of the polyvagal theory is really coming into Zeitgeist to people’s awareness of it. All right, so how in the heck would I or my listeners know if I have a dysregulated? autonomic nervous system? And number two, what can you do about it? Look, I mean, the statistics speak for themselves. And you look at the rate of autoimmune conditions, the rate of mental health issues weak, it’s fair to say that you really can’t have those problems without some sort of nervous system dysregulation. So I would say, first of all, whether you’re diagnosed or not, as I keep saying, repeating myself, these things exist on a spectrum. And depending on the study that you look at, it’s about four to 10 years prior to someone being diagnosed when things were somewhere on that inflammation spectrum. So you don’t necessarily have to be diagnosed. Many people, you know, they they’re just, they’re feeling that wired and tired, they’re anxious and exhausted, they have sluggish gi motility. They, like constipated, they maybe have some IBS issues, they have weight loss, resistance, metabolic issues, throughout there. That’s a lot of people. That’s the vast majority of the human race to varying degrees. So you can assume that a component to why you feel the way that you do is a dysregulated nervous system and supporting it. And regulating it is in my experience with our telehealth patients, a massive component for many people to their healing. So yeah, that’s the state of affairs right now, let me make a comment in the same light. And I’m sure you see this and most of the patients that ended up seeing me, many people have been to four or 510. Different, well, meaning physicians, other practitioners, institutions, and they often vague complaints, and most of them are told, every one of your lab tests is absolutely normal. There’s nothing wrong with you. Some people joke, you need a checkup from the neck up. And that’s certainly been my experience. What’s a you? Gosh, I’m so glad you brought this up. I mean, my heart breaks for this epidemic of medical gaslighting that we’re seeing in the world today. Really, I think in many ways, this is archaic system, coming to grips with an informed populace. You know, the gatekeepers are going by the wayside and the I think the democratization of information, the decentralization of information. You have empowered consumers that no more than honestly most conventionally trained doctors do about health and that’s threatening to a system that never really had to ask answer questions. And were vastly as a conventional model behind the times when it comes to helping people with complex health issues. And it’s something that I really go hard in, in gut feelings because it’s such a something that I see
Unknown Speaker 15:00
You’re on an hourly basis with new patients telling me these horror stories of medical gaslighting. They’re told they’re just depressed, take these antidepressant, well, who wouldn’t be a little bit depressed when you feel horrible. And everybody just tells you, it makes you feel like you’re crazy. They say, you know, you’re just getting older, or you’re just stressed. All these, like you said, well intentioned, some, sometimes, sometimes there’s what I would call med splaining. It’s like mansplaining, any with people’s health. And there’s a lot of, you know, this god click god complex and hubris, I think with these complex health issues, where they don’t fit into a box. And the training is typically to diagnose and match with the medication. And if you don’t fit into that box, they’re told, hey, it looks like autoimmune conditions, or, you know, it is, you know, you’re just depressed, or you are referred to somebody else. And there’s just this growing list of labs, really nothing to show for it. I’m not sure how we break the cycle. But I know you and I are both trying to do that. And I think the important thing is that people need to find someone
Unknown Speaker 16:09
who will actually take their complaint seriously, and have the ability to investigate this. I mean, you know, if you had asked me 20 years ago, now, what I thought of leaky gut, I would have told you it was pseudoscience. Now, of course, thanks to Dr. Fasano and others, we you know, we know that leaky gut number one exists, we know how to test for it. So it’s not, it’s not pseudoscience, of poverty was right just diverge for a second back in the late 1800s, there was a theory that caught wildfire called, which you probably know about auto intoxication. And that was bacterial toxins coming out of our intestines was actually the cause of most of our illnesses. And it got so extreme, as you probably know, and I do that people had their entire colons taken out, people had all of their teeth removed. And it actually was the start of colonic therapy. Because of this, that’s where colonic therapy started from. And believe it or not, it was correct, but not in the way that anybody thought. We were beginning to actually come around 100 years later, or more than one year later and say, you know, there was something to this. And now we can test for it. Yeah. And you don’t have to remove your colon or your teeth. No, that’s the good news. That’s the good news.
Unknown Speaker 17:41
You need but you need to take care of your colon and you need to take care of your teeth that the oral microbiome hey, look, that’s that’s something that’s important there to you. Right. But hey, how far we’ve come. I’m glad I’m returning a corner. Yeah. All right. Speaking of turning a corner, you have a term in the book, which I find fascinating. Shame formation. And you say and I want you to defend this probably has to do with a lot of chronic health conditions. So what the heck is shameful automation? It’s my made up word, right? It’s so much of our job. So much of our job is education. So I think like a teacher in that way of like, how to the layperson, and we deal with savvy aficionados, the area that that people when it comes to hell, but still, they don’t do this for a living I do. So it’s just this phenomenon that I see clinically for the past 13 plus years of that people’s mind body connection, the meant their mental health, their emotions, their thoughts about themselves and other people in the world, and how it impacts their physiology. So shame is something that I see to varying degrees in different instances. One, something that I talked about in the book is this unresolved trauma component for many people’s health puzzle pieces. And there’s a lot of shame. This is like pretty straightforward, right? You could assume there’s a lot of shame when it comes to unresolved trauma and things that people maybe are a little bit defensive. When I bring it up on that initial telehealth console when I see their high a score and we talk about things like sexual abuse growing up and physical abuse growing up was there alcohol drug abuse in the home growing up? Was there just a general neglect viewed or a latchkey kid growing up, and that depending on that person’s biochemistry and their own bio individuality and sort of resilience capacity, it really can influence their biochemistry today, we know that’s a contributing factor. The higher the ACE score, research shows, you’re more likely to have it’s an potential ingredient to trigger autoimmune problems trigger brain health issues, trigger, trigger, hormonal and metabolic issues later on in life, but I also see shame play out in a more nebulous way because it’s a little bit not as obvious but it’s with people that are dealing with chronic
Unknown Speaker 20:00
stress in their current life. So the people that I talked to in this category, and obviously you can have both past trauma and current stress, but let’s just say their ACE score is lower, their childhood experiences lower, but it’s a current stress of a job, high pressure job, or, at that point, they’re on the go all the time, they’re kind of irritable, because they’re not really managing their stress very well. They’re snapping at their partner, they’re snapping at their kids, they’re not really present with their family when they are home, because they’re checking their emails. And they typically will do the Grab and Go convenience package foods that don’t really love them back. And they’re doing a lot of stress eating. So there’s shame around that, too. So there’s a lot of shame with chronic stress with due to various reasons. And that life stuff, that feeling stuff of gut feelings, we will see spike inflammatory proteins impacting the gut brain axis, and really throwing off anything from SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, driving food reactions, food sensitivities, to of course, this epidemic of diagnoseable, autoimmune issues and brain health issues. So that’s my way of kind of educating people about this phenomenon of shame, inflammation. Well, I gotta say, when I was a big, fat guy, I had no shame and eating a pound of peanut m&ms, none. Obviously, I had a big problem. But that that was not shameful for me. But I get what you’re saying. You’re right, I have a large number of patients that they know the foods they’re eating, are, are killing them, or affecting their mental health or the way they feel. And yet they do it and they say, I can’t help myself. And I think that’s what we’re both getting into. How do we break that cycle? You mentioned one thing, convenience foods, because, quote, unquote, we live busy lives, and we’re under stress, it’s so much easier to stop on the way home and pick something up than to go home and make something or even find fresh ingredients and make something even if it was going to be very quick. How do we break this? So I put together protocols and gut feelings that I adapted from protocols that I have for patients, and you know, everybody has their own entry point, I’m just putting my clinical hat on for a second. Like, for some people, the feeling stuff is very overwhelming for them, right. It’s like the idea of dealing with past trauma. I think of a patient I had a few weeks ago, they had a very high score. And they didn’t have never really done therapy, they never really did much there. Maybe some CBT like general therapy, but not really dealing with the past stuff so much. And they didn’t want to go there. And they said, You know what? No, I’m I know, I went through it. They didn’t want to talk about the connection between how it could be playing out with their inflammatory problem, anxiety and depression, fatigue. So you just have to plant that seed sometimes. And for them, they were expecting the functional medicine doctor to be prescriptive, to run some labs, look at their gut health look good. Give them a food protocol, give them a natural medicine, a supplement protocol, maybe some bio hacks in there, and we did all that. But you just have to get rolling, like meet them where they’re at. And that’s the science and art of what we both do. But this is a surprising one, only three weeks into product on the protocol. She was feeling more grounded, less inflamed, blood sugar was more stable, that’s physiologically for a fertile foundation for someone to make more proactive and less reactive decisions. And for her, she said to me, Hey, you know that trauma thing you were talking to me when we first met online, I’m ready to talk about that now. And now we have are doing somatic practices breath work, doing some EMDR with a therapist, the gut side of gut feelings was her entry point to create some resilience, increase some bandwidth, so she can cross that bridge of dealing with the past stuff. For other people. It’s the opposite, right? It’s the opposite, like the physical stuffs overwhelming and like we’re just kind of saying they’re in this throes of shame, inflammation and sabotaging behavior, they really can’t get past like a few weeks before, like just doing things in a very self sabotaging way when it comes to food or alcohol or you know, lifestyle stuff. So for them regulating the nervous system with therapy EMDR somatic practices breath work, some of the tools that I talked about within the protocol of the book, that’s going to create more resilience for them, then they can go make better food choices. For most people, they’re at least open to some degree that they need to deal with both the gut and the feeling stuff at the same time, because both are important. One will influence the other
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Maintaining a healthy diet is essential for a long healthy life. But there’s one thing that many overlook that is almost just as paramount. I’m talking about sleep and one factor that can really affect how well you sleep is your bedsheets. What you sleep on makes a huge difference in how well you sleep and how much REM sleep you get. That’s the deep healing type of sleep that your body needs for longevity and even weight loss. This is why I take my bedsheets very seriously and stick to cozy or silky soft sheets. Because the Earth is made from 100% Bamboo fabric would be close or lightweight and temperature regulated. It truly feels like I’m sleeping on a cool cloud. They come in calming natural colors like charcoal, driftwood and light gray that match with any bedroom decor. It’s time used are taking care of your health in every way possible. And there’s no better time than to start now with cozy yours generous offer for a limited time save 35% on cozy Earth bedding go to cozy earth.com/gundry and enter our special promo code Gundry at checkout to save 35% Now all backed by 100 night’s sleep guarantee. If you don’t love them after trying them out, they’ll refund your money that’s cozy earth.com/gundry And be sure to enter Gundry at checkout for 35% off
Unknown Speaker 26:32
no matter what kind of life you lead you need electrolytes but not just any electrolytes you need a clean source of electrolytes like element element is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything you need and nothing you know that means lots of salt and no sugar coloring artificial ingredients gluten or fillers element is formulated to help anyone with their electrolyte needs and is perfectly suited to folks following a Keto low carb or paleo diet is used by everyone from NBA NFL and NHL players, Olympic athletes and Navy SEALs to everyday moms and dads and exercise enthusiast. Right now element is offering the Dr. Gundry podcast listeners a free sample pack with any purchase that’s eight single serving packets free with any element order. This is a great way to try all eight flavors or share element with a salty friend get yours at drink il M in t.com/gundry This deal is only available through my link you must go to d r i n k l m and t.com/gundry element offers no questions asked refunds try it totally risk free. If you don’t like it, share it with a salty friend and they will give you your money back no questions asked. You have nothing to lose.
Unknown Speaker 28:01
Looking for a new way to optimize your health that results in better sleep, improved mood and possibly even reduced junk food cravings. I recommend checking out blonde charge for blue light glasses to EMF management and circadian friendly lighting. Bond charge products help you naturally address the issues of our modern day way of life effortlessly and with maximum impact. Their extensive range of premium wellness products help you sleep better, perform better, have more energy, recover faster balance hormones reduce inflammation, the list is endless. For example, if you suffer from headaches and fatigue, try their EMF protection your phones to protect your head from cell damaging elf and RF emitted from your cell phone. Or if you have a hard time falling asleep at night, get a pair of their blue light blocking glasses 100% blackout sleep mask or blue light free light bulbs all backed by science right now you can save some bucks on your purchase, go to bond charge.com/gundry and use coupon code Gundry to save 15% That’s boncharg.com/gundry and use coupon code Gundry to save 15%
Unknown Speaker 29:26
I think we’re beginning to realize how much a great entry way into mental health. The gut is fascinating work. You can take bowel movements from depressed individuals and feed them to mice or rats. And just so everybody knows mice and rats love deep poop. They think it’s fantastic. And you will get a depressed rap and we can measure depression in rats. It’s actually pretty easy to do. Just
Unknown Speaker 30:00
by changing their gut microbiome and the you know, the signals that are sent from the microbial population has a, you know, an amazing impact on anxiety and depression. So you’re right. So just in three weeks with your patient, you’ve manipulated that component. And now all these post biotic signaling compounds that are coming up to the brain, and the leaky brain that’s now repaired or in the process of being repaired and repaired. And now you’re right. Now they go, oh, yeah, there is some stuff I really need to work on here. And but that’s what tipped it over. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you, I want the reader of the book to, depending on where they’re at, just find something that they can stay consistent with. Because when you start thinking consistent, even with the small stuff, leaning into it, if you can get your head above that proverbial water, even just a little bit, people start to make more proactive decisions, they have a little bit more of self respect to think for themselves, I think there’s a lot going back to that shame, inflammation concept, people that are in the throes of dysregulation on all levels, tend to feel miserable. And when people feel miserable, they tend to make miserable decisions. So not to say that anybody’s ever perfect, that’s not the case. But you tend to have a little bit more of an awareness and a mindfulness around decisions that we make in our life. And we can create physiological stability and resilience as well as mental emotional resilience as well. All right, so why is that when we’re, you know, stressed or sad that we reach for junk food? Or we reach for alcohol? You see it? I see it we what is that connection? Why do we do that?
Unknown Speaker 31:57
Well, I think it’s multifaceted, right? I think of the the thinking of some foods that are highly palatable, and the research around the scent memory for some people, there’s like this nostalgic component, I think people kind of plays on certain pleasure centers of the brain. But I do feel like a lot of it is some sort of quick dopamine hit some sort of numbing and distracting from issues that need to deal with. And that’s on all levels of culture. Even with social media, I see that right. It’s like, it may not even be food for them. And maybe I want some distraction, some numbing from this dysregulation in my body, which further perpetuates that shame, inflammation for many people. Yeah, I think that’s it. What what do you think? What are your thoughts, then? I think dopamine receptors are a big piece of this. And certainly, the gaming industry knows this extensively. And we know it from rat research, you’ll press that button set to get that hit. There. The problem is, once that hit wears off, and it wears off quite quickly, you seek another hit, whether it’s from that food that did it or from Tik Tok or whatever. Yeah, and you’ll just keep pressing the button. I know. And it’s, it is the foods for sure. But again, a lot of what I talked about in the book is, is this technology and this FOMO culture, you know, the fear of missing out, and I talk about the Jomo is like kind of transmute FOMO into Jomo, the joy of missing out, because a lot of this ancestral stuff, you know, I talked about Heuga and sort of the Dana’s concepts of kind of simplifying your life unplugging, maybe a little bit, reading a book by a fire or whatever that you can to unplug to regulate your nervous system and ground yourself. And the research around forest bathing is so fascinating kind of write about. I mean, there’s just dysregulation on so many levels, whether it is foods that don’t love you back that kind of contribute to that distracting and numbing dopamine, or social media. I just read a study recently, it wasn’t new, but I was in preparation for the book and really looking at different all the research that’s done on social media, multiple studies look that it’s this one, it was 2012, I think, looked at over 7000 New York Times articles, and they looked at what determined the viral the virality of an article. And they found that emotions like rage and anger outperformed other emotions by a lot. And that I mean that we all kind of know that intuitively. And there’s other studies that show that Facebook at one point at least maybe still prioritized posts that use the angry emoji. So and then they’re feeding, they’re feeding the angry articles to the people that are most likely to engage in that rage, and that further perpetuate that cheap dopamine hit that’s really good.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Um, food for our physiology just as much because that’s dysregulated in people’s nervous systems just as much as that food that doesn’t help them back. We’ve kind of talked about bad foods, are there any good foods that can help turn the tide? Yeah, for sure. So the protocol in the book, I really talked about the gaps protocol, you know, the gut and psychology syndrome, or gut and physiology syndrome is something that I’ve used clinically for the past 13 years for people who needed it. So whether it’s an autoimmune inflammation issue, a metabolic issue, or a brain health issue, this is a protocol that really is a I think of it as a proverbial cast for a very dysregulated gut brain axis. So it kind of has, you know, like a lot of foods that the world would have pitta, Mises, super healthy, that are relatively healthy, maybe lots of raw vegetables, lots of raw foods, which are not inherently bad. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying someone that has a dis very reactive system on all levels, emotionally, and and physiologically, that can be a lot to digest and work on. So focusing on soups and stews grounding, easy to digest bioavailable, nutrient dense things, it’s a great way to ground them, not just physiologically, ie calming stress hormones, calming inflammation levels, but also you’ll see the ripple effect of their just their emotions being more grounded as well. So it can be bone broth based soups and stews, you could do organic chicken broth, or grass fed beef broth, or you could do fish broth, which isn’t as common in the United States. But in other cultures, it’s pretty common. And we have recipes for all of these in the book, too. And you obviously do some plant based glengyle, broth, Ginger broth, seaweed broth to be one to do as well, and lots of protein and vegetables in there. But the vegetables you’re going to get are going to be more digestible and usable to the body, and less irritating to an irritated system. So that’s one thing that as a tool that over time therapeutically, I’ve seen amazing results with doing sort of a gut reset, if you will. That’s a really good point. And I think we get over particularly in California, you know, if you don’t have a salad three times a day, there’s something wrong with you. Absolutely. People who have a really dysregulated gut, their their microbiome has shot, they’ve got a leaky gut, these people, they really react to raw vegetables. And I’ll give you a personal example, which I’ve talked about before, but it’s worth repeating. years ago, my wife got a neutral bullet, a magic bullet and decided to make a kale smoothie. And she took you know, four cups of raw kale and made a smoothie and handed it to me as I was walking out the door. And I can eat kale or despite Dave Asprey, I occasionally have kale. So I’m walking out the door, and I’m chugging my kale smoothie, and I eat a lot of salads, obviously. And within an hour, I’m having massive intestinal cramps. And the next thing I know I’m in the bathroom and outcomes, the kale smoothie, and I’ve gone What the heck, and then I went will die, you idiot. There’s actually a lot of really protective plant compounds like lectins, that the plant doesn’t want you to eat them. And if you eat them whole, you go through a very slow process of breaking these things down. But what my wife had done, of course, his homogenized in every plant, defensive protein was now fully activated, and my body went, Holy cow, I gotta get rid of this thing. And this is exactly what you’re talking about. So when I have people who are really, you know, not well in their gut, one of the smartest things to do is basically cook these foods down to you know, nothing. And that’s where you start, and then you gradually reintroduce this stuff. Yeah, exactly. Great advice. Yeah. And look, some people even have to do, I’m glad you brought it up, like there’s a transition period, you know, aren’t necessarily always staying there. Like if we’re repairing these things. Let’s segue out of that. To use that proverbial cast analogy. There’s a time for a sling, and there’s a time to take off that sling entirely. But when there’s resilience regained, but some people have to start with even
Unknown Speaker 39:33
pureed vegetables, like it’s like that broken down, oh, yeah. So you have to meet your gut where it’s at and don’t try to rush things that it’s not ready to digest. Yeah, I mean, I literally will have people you know, cook their salads. Yeah, yeah. And then puree them and that’s, that’s where we have to start or not where we’re gonna go today probably, but I will use a variation of
Unknown Speaker 40:00
Have a carnivore diet temporarily to get these plant compounds away from people and, and we’ll do that I just had a friend and who’s a patient, we’ve done this and he was a vegan, and had all these gut issues, and we kind of tried every trick to keep him as a vegan. And I finally said, Look, this isn’t working. You got wide open, leaky gut, we’ve tried everything. Do me a favor, you know, let’s let’s try a carnivore diet primarily based on fish. He could he was good with that. Within a month, he said, Oh, my gosh, you know, that was it. That was it. I said, Okay, you know, the good now, let’s branch out, but yeah, lean out of it, for sure. And even the fruit side of things, those people tend to, I find that almost do better with fruits than a lot of the higher reactive, let’s just say higher FODMAP or higher oxalate vegetables, we’ll have them bake it down, simmer it down fruits, like berries into sort of a compote like an inside of a pie without the pie part. And maybe some honey, something like that. There’s a little it’s a treat for them. But it’s more digestible. I mean, the concept is you’re kind of pre digesting it in a way by cooking these down. And there’s nothing wrong with raw foods. We’re not saying that, but kind of for the people that need it for a time therapeutically, use it therapeutically, and then lean out of it based on your body’s own pace of recovery. Yeah, actually even have people ferment their fruits. That’s a great great to really actually add some post biotics and to start breaking them down. And let’s remind ourselves that plants actually want us to eat their fruits. This was the enticement to distribute their babies, their their seeds that we couldn’t digest. Yeah, as opposed to plants actually didn’t want us to eat their leaves, because that’s their energy source. Yeah. All right, we digress. But this is fun. That’s what we’re going to do. What is a sugar audit? And why do you recommend doing one?
Unknown Speaker 42:07
So I mean, you know, this, but like people, even that, I mean, the people that I meet, people that you meet, are very savvy people, as I mentioned earlier, they are eating better than most people are. They know more than most doctors do. But I am still the I surprised many of them to when I really just point out the hidden sugars. That’s even even in these things that are very much marketed to as healthy things. And look, they are better for you options. There’s nothing wrong in that right. And they’re better sourced ingredients, etc. But you still have to look for grams of added sugar, especially if you’re just not mindful of how you’re fueling your body. And we know especially for people that have dysregulated, guts and dysregulated nervous systems, the more added sugar, the more you’re going to contribute to that stress cycle. And that’s a shame inflammation cycle when it comes to how they feel mood wise and their blood sugar is all over the place. So sugar audits, one of the days within the gut feelings protocol is just for people to take an inventory of their breakfast, lunch, dinner and snack and just be mindful, as using it as a mindfulness experiment of saying, Wow, I didn’t realize that dressing had X amount of grams of sugar, or I didn’t realize that, you know, I’m having this big thing of juice thinking that I’m doing the great thing, but it’s really lacking fiber and it’s spiking my blood sugar.
Unknown Speaker 43:33
That just because something’s quote unquote, healthy or it’s marketed very well. Really don’t ever. Like I would still want to empower the person to read the grams of added sugar on the back of that label. Yeah, come Bucha is one of the big Mischief Makers, at least in the sort of people I deal with. Oh, you know, I have, you know, come Bucha every day and their triglycerides are high and they’re insulin resistant. I don’t ever look at the back of the label and there’s, you know, 20 grams of added sugar. I got news for you that wasn’t all fermented away and alcohol.
Unknown Speaker 44:10
Now, I mean, you know, a lot of this can Bucha companies, the mass market doesn’t necessarily love that tankiness that bright tartness. So they do it from a sales perspective, I’m assuming but yeah, look better for you, maybe. But yeah, you wanna you want your kombucha to be as tart and vinegary as possible, and then read the grams of added sugar for sure. What was maybe the most surprising thing you learned while working on this book? It would be it’s hard to say because I think the breathwork research is really fascinating to talk about Holotropic breathwork and its origins with psychedelic research. I found that fascinating. I knew about it intellectually. We integrated in patients protocols, but I just the deep dive of that space was fascinating and writing and research.
Unknown Speaker 45:00
thing for this Book. The other one that came to that comes to mind is the science around intergenerational trauma transgenerational trauma of how it sounds. So almost woowoo and science fiction, the fact that we are helped today not only has to do with the foods we eat and our stress levels or our past childhood trauma, but has to do potentially with our great grandparents and what they experienced. But the research is really looking at that is that there’s multiple examples within the journals. One is the Holodomor. It was this manmade famines Ukrainian Genocide in the early 20th century, another set of research looking at the Holocaust in Germany and Poland, and the Rwandan genocide in the 90s. And looking at the trauma that they went through, impacting not just the people they went through, but these methylation variants would be passed on from kid to grandkids, and great grandkids, having increased risks of autoimmune issues, and metabolic issues, type two diabetes, and mental health issues. So it is profound. And I think that we’re just beginning to scratch the surface of in a way we are living out things that we need to deal with in our own life that’s like our opportunity, like our life today, in many ways, is an opportunity to fix and break cycles that have been going on for generations. And as trauma can be inherited. So good healing, and I see people all the time, with my patients breaking the cycle of dysfunction and disorder, a dysregulation disease in their not just their body, but it changes the culture of their family, and it heals their kids, their health, their spouse, and they think of the legacy that is of just healing generations, they’ll never get to see. So that to me was the probably the most enriching was the most, I think, in awe of the power that we wield, that it’s not just about us, it’s really about really leaving a legacy of wellness on a levels. So how do you counter the argument that well, my great grandfather was traumatized in the Prussian war. And so I can’t help it, that I want to have a pound of m&ms and drink like a fish. Yeah, I can’t help it.
Unknown Speaker 47:30
Well, I think that’s a difference between between being reactive and proactive, and being a victim and being more than a conqueror. I think that’s the difference is that people can use that as a way to distract to numb themselves. Absolutely. That’s victimhood and all levels, right. But I think that other people can say, Wow, I think the person that’s proactive, and that’s working on healing has that paradigm shift to say, Wow, if anything that gives me some grace, and some lightness that this isn’t all just about me. But we and we all were dealt different hands, right? But it’s our responsibility to say what do we do with it in this life, I see people up against seemingly insurmountable things with very high scores with very much heaviness in their life, in their family’s life for generations, overcome, overcome. So I think that that’s just the difference between an excuse maker and people that don’t make excuses the people that their their Why is bigger than their excuses. Well said. All right. Final thought on this. Yeah. If you had one recommendation for anyone trying to heal their gut brain connection, what do you got? Where do I start? I mean, I go back and look at some of the recipes in the book and really look at the gaps protocol that I have in gut feelings because I do feel like that’s a good first step. If you’re like, Man, I I’m struggling with some brain fog and fatigue, maybe some background anxiety and maybe an autoimmune issue. Look at that side of it, the soups, the stews, that cooked fruits, we have recipes for all of that to make it more digestible and therapeutic that proverbial cast your gastrointestinal system and, therefore your microbiome to on the feeling side. I mean, there’s so many practice somatic practices that I’ve talked about in the book, but I would say breathwork is one don’t underestimate the power of breath and how it can regulate your nervous system strengthening that vagus nerve. But if you’re talking about like me, personally, I love a good old fashioned forest bath. I love the research coming out of Japan and South Korea looking at using nature as a meditation and medicine. And these things are completely free or low costs for people. So that is a great excuse to go out in nature, which humans would have done for eons and we didn’t need the randomized control trials to look at the mechanisms. We just knew intuitively that nature was healing. But now we have some cool science to show the mechanism. So if you need another excuse, there
Unknown Speaker 50:00
are many that I talk about in the book as far as the research is concerned, but just taking in nature since orally with all your senses and the the plant compounds have been shown to modulate the immune system in a positive way, improving mood. There’s one study that I talked about with the microbiome of kids that went through this forest bathing class. It actually changed the microbiome, the microbes impacting serotonin, a neurotransmitter crosstalk between the gut and the brain. So there’s so many really fun things in a way to support and regulate your nervous system on the feeling side. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well that call it was great having you back on the show where do people find God feelings? wordly and learn about you? Thank you, my friend, I appreciate you I can I just say publicly, can I just your I appreciate your years of support and friendship in our space tremendously, it is not going on appreciated. And I want you to know that everything’s that doctor will call.com Dr. wi ll co l e.com. Gut feelings you can get the link to gut feelings is there but you can get it on Barnes and Noble Amazon, target all the places independent bookstores support them, and my podcast, but you were so kind to be on the Art of Being Well, hopefully we’ll come back soon. They can listen to that every week, too. All right. Before I let you go, as you know, I do an audience question and I think this is a good one for both of us to take on. And this is from Zaid Seba 85. I hope I got that right on Instagram. Dr. Gundry, thank you so much for all you do. Please share your opinion on essential oils are identical. I think it depends on how they’re using it right? I don’t think essential oils are bad inherently. And if you think about it, even when I’m it’s just a good segue that forest bathing research these plant compounds are are essentially essential oils, right? But they’re in nature that like the ratio is good, and you’re in fresh air and these plant compounds showed to be beneficial to our mood, our microbiome and inflammation levels. I think the problem is because the problem that I have with essential oils, is that because they are quote unquote natural, people think that they are just just go hog wild with it. And I have a lot of problems with that, because I think they’re using a lot of natural skincare products, it can really be disruptive to the skin microbiome because these are strong agents, right? They’re very concentrated agents that can be very irritating to the skin mantle, the skin microbiome and really drive inflammation when that skin mantle is disturbed. And then I’m concerned with the amount that people are taking if they’re doing it like orally and taking them like dropping them in water. They may be doing too much there’s really no like clear like dosage for these things kind of like general
Unknown Speaker 53:01
I think they smell good. I think that where the where they operate, the best is diffusing in a room. We have them diffusing in the telehealth center like pine. Like think really I’m doing it because of the forest bathing research. I’m trying to bring the forest inside my telehealth center and diffusing and it smells like just the hint of fine plants which I enjoy. But what do you think what I know you’ve found some recent research what have you learned? Yeah, number one, I think I agree with one of my podcast guests that most essential oils that you get on Amazon. Buyer beware. They’re not the real thing. Number two, what I’ve recently discovered and I won’t mention the essential oils that have them. A number of these essential oils have endocrine disruptors. And that was a real wake up call to me and I’m gone son of a gun. You know what, maybe what are we doing by overusing these? Certainly that’s something more to come on that it’s coming in my new book, but I think we have to be very careful. Yeah, natural compound. Sometimes the word natural. Arsenic goes all natural and, and so is heroin. So
Unknown Speaker 54:19
don’t have the stamp does anything. Don’t Don’t confuse those either. That would not be good to diffuse. That would be not good. All right, I gotta let you go. Good luck on the book. It’s great, insightful information that people need. And I’m sure one of these days we’ll see each other in person again, hopefully. So thanks, my friend.
Unknown Speaker 54:39
Hey, this is Dr. Drew, and I’d like to invite all of you to subscribe to the Dr. Drew podcast. We are very proud of what we’re doing there at that podcast. I am interviewing some of the most interesting people you could ever want to talk to just whatever I find fascinating, whether as a smart person or an expert in a field that I’m interested in or maybe I’m not even interested in I’m only interested because I
Unknown Speaker 55:00
heard them speak and become intrigued. I think you’ll be intrigued as well. We get deep into topics that are quite important to the current age. Things like cognitive dissonance cognitive distortions, how does our mind work? We talk about everything in the dark through podcasts. That is a real relevance. We get all the way into deep physics and all sorts of stuff, but trust me, it’s all very accessible. It’s very interesting headaches. If you’re even interested in learning about headaches we get there we go to the interesting topics of the day. Please join us at the Dr. Drew podcast.
Unknown Speaker 55:34
All month long on Pluto TV streamed the biggest Tyler Perry Movies FREE watch your favorites like Medina’s witness protection and Matthias big happy family join Tyler Perry as he goes on a couple’s retreat with Sharon Leland, why did I get married or Idris Elba and Gabrielle Union in the Tyler Perry directed film Daddy’s little girls plus Pluto TV has hundreds of channels with 1000s more movies and TV shows available on live and on demand. Download the free Pluto TV app on all your favorite devices and start streaming now. Pluto TV drop in watch free.
Unknown Speaker 56:05
Alright, it’s time for the review of the week from Esther cars on now ski on YouTube. Hi, Dr. Gundry. Thank you so much for everything you do. You’re incredibly informative books have improved my life and actually probably saved it. I used to eat a lot of meat and organ meat. And even though I feel very good when I do eat meat, my body was suffering. In short, I had a gout attack and I’ve changed my diet. And thank God, I haven’t seen another attack. I have learned so much and try to send your podcasts and books to family and friends who need help. Thank you. Well, Esther, thank you very much. You know, the reason I do this, and I guess I say this every week is to give you the most up to date information. Hopefully without bias. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I’ve been now looking at people’s bloodwork for 25 years, every three to six months, I still see patients six days a week to learn as much from my patients, which then I can hopefully transmit to you. And thanks for noticing that something I probably told you made a difference in your life. And that’s why I’m going to do this. And that’s why I’ll see you next week because I’m Dr. Gundry. And I’m always looking out for you.
Unknown Speaker 57:31
I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Dr. Gundry podcast to stay updated on the latest news and episode drops. Don’t forget to follow the Dr. Gundry podcast on your favorite platform and sign up for my free newsletter at Dr. gundry.com. If you like what you hear, be sure to leave me a review so I can feature it on an upcoming episode.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
