Speaker 1 (00:00:00):
Welcome to The Dr. Gundry Podcast, the weekly podcast where Dr. G gives you the tools you need, to boost your health and live your healthiest life.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:00:14):
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Welcome to The Dr. Gundry Podcast. Imagine waking up each morning with more energy, less stress and a stronger immune system, and how important is that with COVID-19? Now, what if you could achieve these things with nothing more than your own mind and your own breath? You might think that’s impossible, maybe even crazy, but my guest today has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it actually all can be true. He’s been nicknamed The Iceman for his ability to withstand freezing cold temperatures. In fact, he once ran a half marathon barefoot in the Arctic and summited some of the world’s tallest peaks, in nothing more than shorts.
His name is Wim Hof and on today’s episode, he and I are going to dive deep into some of the secrets for staying fit and healthy, in any conditions, at any age. Based on his new book, The Wim Hof method, we’ll also discuss the benefits of cold, how Wim was able to withstand the effects of the dangerous E. coli bacteria with nothing more than his mind, and how you can actually use his techniques to reduce stress and feel healthier than you have in years. Wim, it’s a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
Wim Hof (00:03:00):
Steven Gundry, thank you for having me and that’s a great introduction.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:03:07):
Well, you’ve been an interesting person and I’ve had the pleasure of reading everything that’s ever been written about you, and including reading your new book. What fascinated me in reading your book, is that you had some fairly hair-raising, scary experiences with nearly freezing to death as a young child. Can you talk about this?
Wim Hof (00:03:33):
Of course. Imagine yourself surrounded with six other kids in the afternoon, with the first fallen snow. You are excited, seven years old, eight years old, just outside in grass fields, in lawns somewhere, public space. A little bit from home, together with your friends and playing, and making an eagle because you want to be an Eskimo, with the first fallen snow. And it’s going great, everybody is excited and building and building and seven-year-old are not really good at building, but they got a great fantasy and it builds and builds and it shapes and it shapes. Then one goes, another goes, another guy goes, another guy and another guy and I’m left alone. And it’s all right because I’m still excited, I’m still building but then suddenly a feeling enters, to sit down. A little heavy feeling which you got also when you going to sleep.
I began to sleep, I began to sit and sleep and doze off, and it’s a great dozing off in the snow. And of course my parents got worried, they’d been looking there and they found me in that public space, on the lawn, sleeping. And they woke me up, of course, they woke me up and that was terrible because I was into hypothermia. If they had left me, I would have died, that was seven years old.
When I was 11, I had the same, now different, I went to school then the cold caught me and I felt this heavy feeling coming over me. Again, I went to sit in a porch, in these dark days, like in Pennsylvania or in Michigan, in those mornings in winter time, it’s just dark and misty and it’s cold and frosty. You have to go to school and you go through these alleys and these streets, and I was taken over by this feeling of, I wanted to sit down.
And that next thing was, I woke up in the hospital because, once again, I had fallen asleep inside the snow. It’s the white death, they call it, it’s the most soft death you can imagine, it’s like nice. I had this also, Steven, when I went under the ice, the first time I did a world record under the ice, that was the general repetition. One day before, it was in the evening, all dark there in Finland, beyond the polar circle, in January. There I was, alone, with somebody just to check the distance because the other day I had to do a world record. I did my training, I said, “I want to go all the distance because tomorrow I got to do all the distance.”
I prepared myself through these breathing techniques and exercising deeply, then took a last breath in, went down, pushed myself down under the ice, which was a yard thick, and then horizontally swimming to the other hole which was about 60 yards away. But then, a little bit past the halfway, my cornea froze and I couldn’t see where the hole was no more, it was all a blur. And I missed the hole and I went swimming on and on and on, trying to find the hole. But there was no hole, there was only me, breath hold, in my shorts, in the freezing water, with a yard-thick layer of ice.
Imagine, the thing is, I did double the record distance but still had not found the hole. And then, I felt no agony, I was fully in control, though my energy began to become smaller and smaller, my visual became this big, like a tunnel. And then a few yards more, few strokes more, I swim and I began to sleep, under the ice.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:09:14):
Wow.
Wim Hof (00:09:15):
If it wasn’t for that diver, which had dove in, a rescue diver, later on, to take me by the ankle back to the 60-meter yard hole, surely, I would have died and dozed off, died, and they would have found me in the spring time, when the freezing weather is over.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:09:41):
Wow.
Wim Hof (00:09:41):
But, at that moment, I went up like this. First, I was yelling to the diver, “Where were you? I was looking for… ” But then, I said, “But I did it.” And not only one distance, I did double the distance, more than double the distance. And then at that moment, I had this realization, “I am no longer afraid of dying.” These are the life’s lessons I took from nature, this is one of the life’s lessons I took which you cannot read in books. If you talk to people, what is dying? What is spirituality? What is God? Nobody knows. I found, in nature and challenging myself, most of these questions. Right now, I’m showing through science, to be able to fundamentally change what we are capable of within our own physiology, tested in nature.
In the beginning, when I was born, I was one of the twins, I was born too late, I was born traumatically. Why? Because they didn’t expect the second child, there were no echoscopia measurement devices and all that, it was not there. It was a trumpet, a wooden trumpet they had, and something like gut feeling and, “How do you feel?” “Okay.” Probably good but not always, in my situation, they made a mistake because they only found out later, when it was almost too late, that there was another one and I was driven, pushed to the operation room. And just before entering into the operation room, my mother delivered me in the cold of the hall, purple because I almost had suffocated.
And so she delivered me with the words, “Oh, God, let this child live, I will make him a missionary,” she was a pious, naive woman, pious but very strong. And I think what she has done with me, on my soul, like a tattoo on my little psych which was nothing at that moment, has changed my life. Because I’m one of a identical twin, my twin brother is absolutely not the same as me and it’s because of this.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:12:45):
Well, it sounds like, number one, hearing these sorts of stories and reading about you. Obviously, a lot of people say, “Well, wait a minute, you almost died in practicing for this world record attempt and so you must be crazy, because the next day you went and did it again.” And it sounds like, from the moment you were born, you’ve been defying death and you’ve actually been very good at, low oxygen levels, in staying alive. Do you think, from the moment that you were born, that you’re somehow special to be able to tolerate this, or that it gave you a gift to teach other people how to tolerate this or both?
Wim Hof (00:13:36):
Both, exactly. Both. One is, because of that situation, that traumatic situation, at the time of my birth, it had changed, epigenetically, my gene expressions, my DNA, my being, altogether. And right now, I’m doing fundamental studies with the University of San Francisco on the telomeres, on the DNA, on depression. And they see that through this exercising of this method, it has great potential to activate one’s deepest physiology to become much more alert, much more within the control of the human, of the person. And that is very well problem right now, in the time of COVID, because they talk about masks, they talk about social distancing but they don’t talk about, how can you naturally boost, activate, within your will, your immune system? And that is almost scandalous because it’s there, they should inform people and more over because it is scientifically endorsed.
We got injected with bacteria, doing these breathing exercises which I learned by going into cold water. You go into cold water, what happens? You breathe deep, that is natural, that is changing, through deep breathing, your biochemistry and you are activating the adrenal axis. And that makes you strong within, that is related directly with the immune system. It becomes much more alert, the immune system, and this has proven itself, it doesn’t cost 20 years of practice or going up Mount Everest like I did or Kilimanjaro, or losing the way under the ice or running marathons without water in the Namib desert, or beyond the polar circle in shorts, in mid-January, doesn’t take it.
It only takes breathing exercises in the morning, a cold shower a day. I almost don’t want to say this, a cold shower a day keeps the doctor away, but I like you very much. The thing is, right now and next month, we getting these new results of the DNA studies with Professor Epel, who coauthored with Elizabeth Blackburn, who’s a Nobel prize winner on the DNA. They are into this method, to analyze it, what is the benefit? And it’s very promising, it’s very promising through this hormetic exercising, hormetic, stressful exercise that we activate. It works like a vaccine but this is natural so there we are, there we are.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:17:13):
In all my books, I write about how important hormesis is, and for our listeners who don’t know, hormesis is, “That which doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger,” from the Nietzsche line. And I absolutely agree with you, in the very first chapter of your book, you say, “The things we have built to make our lives easier have actually made us weaker.” And in fact, that’s a big part of my upcoming book, The Energy Paradox. I know what you mean but for our listeners and viewers, what do you mean? I mean, things have gotten so good for us, we’ve made our lives so much easier and that’s a bad thing?
Wim Hof (00:18:03):
It is, it is. We have over comforted ourselves. We are, how do you say? Civilized to death. A friend of mine who made a T-shirt with this, Chris Ryan, he said, “Civilized to death,” and I thought, “That’s a nice slogan.” It is, we always wear clothes while our biggest organ is our skin. And in the skin, we got thousands or millions of thermal receptors and electro receptors, which is directly related and connected to the vascular system and our neurology, the nervous system, it is.
And through cold and heat, through being outside, environmental stress, we get stimulation. And then, the millions of little muscles inside the vascular system are being exercised through this stimulation. Now, it’s not stimulated all time, it’s always in a neutral modus because there is no stimulation therefore no activation. That means that the tonus, the muscle tonus of the millions of little muscles, are related to the vascular, that means the arteries, the veins and the capillaries, it’s 70,000 kilometers inside.
All these little primitive muscles are not being stimulated, who is paying the consequence for that? Our heart, because it needs to beat harder, it needs to beat more, that makes the signal to the heart to produce glucose and cortisol. And that’s what happens in our society, besides cardiovascular-related diseases, killer number one in our society. That’s why I say, “Cold shower a day keeps the doctor away, even the doctor is doing it.” I mean, it’s not for nothing that we have the skin, it’s not for nothing because all the electoral thermal receptors are connected to our neurology and vascular system. They are being exercised, all these little muscles. You know what happens with the muscle if you don’t train it, your heart needs to compensate.
And what happens if we take a cold shower a day? Then you will find out that the heart rate will go down, with 20 to 30 beats a minute, 24 hours a day. That means the stress will go down, that means the stress signaling to the liver will go down, that means no more glucose plus cortisol in our bodies, which is a big problem on a longterm. And the other thing is, when those little muscles, millions of them, are being exercised, then the blood flow reaches with the oxygen, nutrients, the vitamins, the cells a whole lot better. Bottom line is, more energy, less stress. And now it’s this, we need this.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:21:44):
You’re absolutely right. I grew up in the Midwest and both Omaha, Nebraska, but I did my training in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And one of the things that’s fascinating, as soon as the temperature got to be about 40° Fahrenheit, we would be out in our shorts and a tank top, washing our cars and thinking nothing of it, and it was glorious. And then when I subsequently moved to Southern California, in the winter, all of a sudden it would be 60° in the morning and I would see nurses and people coming in, in parkas because they’re freezing to death. And I thought, “Are you crazy?” It’s like, “I don’t understand.”
But you’re right, we don’t… Again, you and I came from cold climates and so I think and I’ve written in my books, that people who live in cold climates actually live better and longer and I truly believe you, it’s this cold stress that you’re subjected to all the time, and you thrive in that. What’s your argument that, “Well, okay, I live in Central America or I live in Florida, I never see cold, is that unnatural?” We all originally came from Africa, where we think we probably didn’t see a lot of cold.
Wim Hof (00:23:32):
Exactly. The breathing exercises made be able to change the biochemistry, that is one, that made me able to stay longer in the cold. The cold is a stressor so we don’t… There are many kinds of stressors, there are stressors in the heat, stressors in the cold. But then it’s about, how is the vascular system and the neurology of our bodies reacting upon it? These breathing exercises, they are able to exercise our vascular system more than somebody who is running. Doing these breathing exercises, we train the vascular system, subsequently the neurology, which is connected to the opening and closing of the veins, arteries, capillaries. It’s the neurology, the nervous system, we train that through these breathing exercises.
It shows that when we do the breathing exercises, these breathing exercises, we did in 2014, with a group of people. And then they got, like me, I was the first one to take a endotoxin bacteria, injected. For that, your immune system needs to work, otherwise you become very sick, do it as a controlled experiment, you become very sick. These breathing exercises, they were able to activate the adrenal axis so much and this is the comparison. The adrenaline was being shown and compared, the adrenaline, more epinephrine. Two people going into their first bungee jump, they were compared, the blood results, and it showed that the people doing the breathing exercises had a higher level of adrenaline. That means, when the adrenaline shoots out and spikes in the body so much, that any stressor is able to be confronted with.
It does not matter, cold is a stress, heat is a stress, emotion can be a stressor, mental stress, congestion, boredom, anything that is stress translates itself to cell biological stress. And that cell biological stress, we can tackle through these breathing exercises, to activate the adrenal axis and reset the body. And reset the body means, in danger, the adrenaline exposes anything that it doesn’t need to have, to become the best within its functionality, that is the rule in nature.
And now we have found, through these breathing exercises, to be able to enter much better into, say, cold stress. That’s what I do with people who have never gone into an ice bath and imagine ice water is cold. And especially for those who never did an ice bath, it’s really an aggressive, hostile force coming in, it’s eating you, at that moment, it’s like paranoia, it’s anxiety, full of anxiety. I showed them the breathing and they are able to bring the pain receptors, to disentangle the pain, trimers to monomers, to disentangle the pain receptor and to have their adaptive power immediately at hand there, to adapt to the cold.
And what happens when we go into the cold and we adapt? That means we have changed the biochemistry inside so strongly, to become able to neutralize the impact, and then our bodies are so strong from within, at that moment. And that’s what I say to the people, “Do this on a regular basis and you will learn to do this at will, go into the ice water, adapt very fast, neurologically, thus connect.” And then you are able to use that exercise whenever you are confronted with any count of stress, because your mind is now connected with the stress mechanisms inside, exercised by going into the cold, you see?
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:28:44):
Yep.
Wim Hof (00:28:44):
And this is the last study, Steven, I did, was in Michigan, where I showed, just by thought, by thought, to have ice water coming on my skin, I was able to maintain skin temperature equal. Even one degree up and there it stayed, even through the ice water was coming in, in brain scans. And then they saw me, that I was connected, robustly activating the periaqueductal gray hemisphere and the cannabinoid system, cannabinoids and opioids and so much that you get psychology over physiology.
Through the neuro-signaling of my will, I was able to handle the neurology of the body and neutralize physical impact of the cold. I made the intercostal activity run so much that the cold could not get to my skin, making it down, that is the power of our mind. And now, Dr. [Mousik 00:30:05], Professor Mousik, is saying in the new book of Scott Carney, who is an investigative journalist who was first to debunk me. Now, he is writing books about me, is very critical and I love it, I love criticism. He is saying, “Wim Hof has found the secret of placebo, that is the power of our mind.”
This is what you learn by going into the cold, the cold is nothing but a teacher, how to connect, neurologically, with the stress mechanisms inside, to become the master, at will, over physical stress, which is going to take place anyway. We better go into the cold because the cold is a great, fast way, how to get a control over the stress mechanisms inside, to beat upcoming stress of the future. That could be mental stress, emotional, but also bacterial and virus.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:31:14):
I want to come back to the breathing method but I want… For my listeners and viewers, I talk a lot about these bacterial endotoxins that Wim is talking about, that are called lipopolysaccharides or LPSs. And as you know I, in the books, call them little pieces of shit, we might cut that, because that’s actually what they are. There are pieces of bacteria that your immune system can’t tell the difference between living bacteria. And you’re right, if we injected them into you and me, we would go into septic shock, our blood pressures would plummet, even though we’re not infected with bacteria, our immune system assumes they’re bacteria.
Now, what Wim is saying and I think that’s what’s so important here is, constantly, our body, whether you know it or not, is being plummeted with LPSs, these endotoxins. They come through the wall of our gut, that I’ve written a lot about, and imagine that this is actually happening 24 hours a day, and it is, we can measure them in my patients and we do. What Wim is saying is, and I’m telling you, this is happening to us every day, we’re not aware of it but it’s happening to us. If have a method of telling our immune system to not react to these signals, that literally are coming into us every day, through breathing techniques, through cold exposure, it gives us phenomenal power over something that is only recently being understood, scientifically, to be happening.
That’s why, even if you have to rewind this podcast, I want you to listen to what he just said about this because this is not some flight of fancy of Wim, this is really important in day-to-day living because we are confronted by these endotoxins every day. Now, getting back to you, two things, the idea, for most people, of taking a Scott shower, that’s what we call it in America and I’ve written about this in my emails. The idea of turning on cold water at the end of a nice warm shower just seems crazy, even though I can convince myself that this is going to be really good for me, how do we start doing this? Number one.
Wim Hof (00:33:57):
First of all, you have to see that the investment is, by far, the outcome, the outcome is so much more. Our vascular system has been neglected, it’s actually not within its natural condition, the natural condition is that the heart rate should be about 20 to 30 beats a minute, 24 hours a day, less. That means the activation to the liver should not be there, the cortisol which goes with that should not be within our bodies. A lot, almost all the autoimmune diseases, you can bring back to a constant activation of the sympathetic nervous system and no restoration, no parasympathetic nervous system activity.
Why is that? Because there is a constant presence of cortisol within our bodies and that makes it keep on going, keep on going, keep on going. It depletes our energy, it doesn’t let us sleep as well, it doesn’t restore energy, it doesn’t take care of our body because, for that, you need the parasympathetic system modus, that is the peace, the restoration. We are always on, on, on, this is the condition of our vascular system in our modern life. And I say, if you take a cold shower, then look at the beats, look at the heart rate, going down. And look about the energy, which will almost double just by taking a cold shower, and you will prove it to yourself.
Feeling is the understanding in this, we can talk about endocannabinoid system and we can talk about interleukins and how they work together with the transcription factors and the telomeres, but nobody understands it. The thing is, feeling is the understanding and it tell you, “You want this cold shower, you don’t want to be this fluffy, this acidic within the lymphatic… In the deepest of your tissue,” the presence of acidic state of your biochemistry, constantly, because we are constantly under attack of stress in so many ways.
And that translates itself into acidity, and that will be getting within us and it is disturbing our flow. Our neurological flow, the vascular flow, the lymphatic flow, the anything flow. We have alienated from our true nature and now we have gotten so far that we think, “That cold is very bad and it’s hostile and it’s no good.” Use your brains, guys, use your sense, just do it once and if afterwards you say you did not feel good and you don’t have more energy, and you don’t have less stress, then never do it again but, otherwise, do it because it works.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:37:16):
Okay. Give us a hint on how, what is this breathing method that’s going to allow us to reset the way our brain reacts to these signals?
Wim Hof (00:37:31):
First of all, what we are going to do, within the breathing, which has been exposed within studies and has gone unprecedentedly deep into the system, more than within science, what thought possible. That is activating the atomic nervous system, activating, consciously, the innate immune system and even activating the specific immune system. Because what happens when you go as deep with these breathing exercises, as science and the comparative scientific study has shown, is that we have gone into the bone marrow, into the deepest of the brain, into the DNA, into everything.
Once you are able to go into the deepest of yourself then, man, why wouldn’t you do that once a day to cleanse yourself, in the depth? Because this is what it is and that makes you then suddenly able to defy bacteria, virus, stress, et cetera, in any shape. Because we are built to be able to defy stress in any kind, that’s nature. But we alienated from nature so we got weakened and we think now we are dependent on doctors, on pills, on medicines, on cars, on this, on that, because then we become happy and strong and healthy.
No, unconditionally, if you change your lifestyle just a little bit, you will be able to connect with the deepest of your physiology, a whole way better. And we showed that in 2014, in science, and fundamentally showed science to be a changing because we now are able to get into the autonomous nervous system and the immune system, far deeper than what’s written down in scientific literature. It’s there and the breathing, this is the way it goes, it’s very simple, it’s very accessible and very effective.
That’s what I want people to know before they start, “Oh, just a little breathing,” no, no, no, this one has proven itself in scientific comparative studies. Showing to be able, after thousands who became sick, suddenly 12 people, 100% school, not sick. Do you want to be much more in control over your immune system, your mood, and to the level of the autonomous nervous system? Then do the following, here it comes, now we sit.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:40:35):
Standby.
Wim Hof (00:40:37):
We are sitting and now join me, join-
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:40:40):
Okay.
Wim Hof (00:40:41):
… Steven. And I want everybody to join, sitting in his chair, relaxed or sitting on the sofa, relaxed or even lying in bed, relaxed. Not outside, standing outside, just on the sofa or in bed or in a chair, relaxed. There we are, because we will go deep, we will activate the adrenal axis to the deepest, remember? More than somebody went into this first bungee jump, that’s what we do right now. Okay, fasten your seatbelt, here we go. There you are, take a full breath in, let it go. Full breathe in, let it go. Keep on going, fully in, letting go. Fully in, letting go. Fully in, letting go. Full in, letting go. Just keep on going, all you guys, keep on going. All you people, keep on going, fully in, letting go. Fully in, letting go.
Let me tell you what is happening. Carbon dioxide, CO2, is blown off. Oxygen is being released, rich oxygen is being released in the body now. Our pH levels, they go up, logically, CO2 is down, alkalinity is up, we are going to be very alkaline. Keep on going, fully in, letting go. 10 more, fully in, letting go. All you guys, stay with the breath, only mind the breath, your mind is a neurological muscle, stay with the breath, don’t go anywhere but with the breath, letting go. Six more, fully in, letting go, fully in, letting go. Four more, fully in, letting go. I’m going to time it, fully in, letting go, two more.
You become lightheaded, loom in the body, it’s all there, they’re all right, saturation is happening, one more. Fully in, letting go, here comes the last one, all in, let it go. And after the exhalation, stop, no more breathing. Close your mouth, easy does it, no need, pH is very high, the trigger to breathe is very low, it’s gone. No need for breathing, this is parasympathetic nervous system activity right now, because there is no breathing, there’s no action, just being. Now you are descending in the deepest of your brain because you are not breathing, after exhalation, that normally is very stressful for our physiology.
This is activating the brainstem, fully, robustly, right now, we go 10 seconds more. Everybody is able to do this, regardless, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one, fully in, hold, hold your breath in and squeeze it to your heart, just pressure a little bit to your heart, cerebral spinal fluid to the heart. Three, two, one, let it go, that’s it. And we do three, four rounds like this in the morning, we become so peaceful, take out the stress cortisol completely. Any residue accumulated through the night, a chemical, biochemical residue in the body will be exposed. We are cleansing into the deepest, even past the lymphatic nodes.
This was considered not to be done but here it is, it’s very simple. And now, this was route number one. Route number two, we would be gone for one and half minute. Route number three, two minutes, route number four, two and a half, three minutes. And people of 80 years can do this, 90 years can do. My oldest participant is 98 years, she loves it and she takes the ice water as well, 98 years, she is strong.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:46:11):
All right, very good. Now, that’s fantastic and thank you for doing that. And you’re right, I think the author, James Nestor, has studied your techniques and I’m a big fan of his and he’s a big fan of you, as you know. And these techniques, I mean, are common, what you’re describing in a way is tummo breathing, is that correct? Or other forms of breath control. And I think all of us should realize you’re not a one-off savant, and you’re very humble in that, what people need to understand is that you have trained other individuals very briefly in these techniques. And then had them injected with endotoxins, LPSs.
Wim Hof (00:47:14):
Exactly.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:47:16):
Which should have knocked them out and they had no effect either. I think the important thing-
Wim Hof (00:47:25):
That is very important of you to say, Steven, that is great to mention that, thank you. Everybody, it shows therein, is able to boost, instantly, their immune system, not a little bit, huge, unprecedented margin. Within science, this is what thought impossible but we showed it with a group of people so why not you? Just think about it and as you said earlier, otherwise you rewind this podcast and listen again because we got it all founded within science. And we keep on going with scientists, we love the scrutiny of criticism of science to show us wrong, because we believe that nature has the answers and we are nature.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:48:24):
Well, you’re absolutely right, that’s why I changed my career 20 years ago, when I found that changing in eating and behavior could reverse coronary artery disease and reverse autoimmune disease. And I recently wrote an editorial about COVID-19 and I actually agree with you, that we’ve got it all wrong. That we should not be hunkering down in our bunkers, waiting for the Manhattan Project of a vaccine to save us. That we should be arming ourselves, we should be equipping ourselves to combat this virus.
I believe in people having high vitamin D levels, for instance, and other food-based… The last thing we want to do is eat sugar. But you’re right, I think what you’ve shown, scientifically, again, you’re not a one-off, that we can totally change our immune system’s response to a threat. And if we spent the time, each and every one of us, to do our own part in protecting us from a virus, from bacteria, we’re going to be so much better off than cowering in our homes. Not to say that we shouldn’t social distance and practice good thinking, but we individually, correct me if I wrong, have the power to do a lot of protection for ourselves.
Wim Hof (00:50:08):
Exactly. And it has shown that the damaging factor of, say, COVID-19 are interleukins. Those are inflammatory markers and that is number one, number six, number eight, and number 11 are at play with the COVID 19. And we showed to suppress them drastically within a quarter of a hour, doing these breathing exercises. And then the E. coli bacteria almost has the same interleukins being activated so we got them down, within a quarter of a hour.
And what it is with COVID, it’s a [premeiotic 00:50:54] edema resulting in liquid inside, because of the inflammation. And it’s like when your house is on fire, you got to extinguish it at the beginning. And this is what the breathing exercises are really capable of, to bring down inflammation when it starts, very effectively, and then it doesn’t go up. When the house is in flames, man, you can’t do breathing, you can’t do editing anymore. For those who think, “Hey, what can we do against,” say, “COVID 19 or any bacteria or any virus in the future or right now?” Is to make our immune system much more alert, at our will, within our will. Is that possible? Just do these breathing exercises and take the cold shower, it doesn’t take more.
It is scientifically endorsed, it’s there, it’s the new science. It is as you said and as you mentioned in your books, hormesis, that is a natural vaccine that when inflammation comes, you activate the physiology to high alert and then the intruder will be dealt with, very specifically. That is the specific immune system which normally works after five to seven days, but that it is too late. Now it is able to work in a quarter of a hour and that is killing it at the core, at the beginning. Bacteria and virus, they should not be able to give them space and do the damage. You don’t let it grow, you take it on and you can feel the symptoms in the beginning, is when you do just what we did and it’s going to work.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:53:01):
And this technique is all in your book, correct?
Wim Hof (00:53:04):
It is, it is very well explained, step-by-step, scientifically endorsed, it’s all there together with my personal story. It means that, “Hey, man, I’m a simple man but I got the belief I’m going to change the world for the good, to bring happiness, strength and health to everybody,” that’s my wish.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:53:27):
That sounds good, that’s what I’m trying to do
Wim Hof (00:53:27):
I know.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:53:29):
Maybe we team up.
Wim Hof (00:53:31):
Yes, sir.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:53:33):
What are you most excited about next? I know you and I are on these missions, where are you going with this next?
Wim Hof (00:53:43):
The next is, there are four new studies and a reproduction of the old study of the endotoxin experiment, is done on a bigger scale and it showed the same results, and they have different angles of research and it’s quite amazing, it’s quite amazing, the results, that is into publishing. Then the second one, the next month, we have the results on the DNA studies of San Francisco, UCSF, with the top researchers on the DNA.
And then we have a study on bipolar disorder in Michigan being done and another study in San Francisco as well, on depression. And there are more studies on the way so the thing is, nature needs to come in, we should not be so dependent on medicines and pills anymore. We have to change our paradigm and the perspective of what we are able to do, as humans, has already changed, only it’s not yet implemented. But now it’s coming to you, viewer, listener, we have changed the paradigm. And showing through scientific scrutiny and comparative studies, that we are able to, much better, influence and control the immune system, endocrine system, lymphatic system, the cardiovascular system, actually all the systems, at will.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:55:24):
I’m not sure if you know the phrase, Hippocrates used to talk about the green life force energy, which in Latin is [foreign 00:55:38]. And Helen Abingdon, actually the nun in the middle ages, used to practice this and just to paraphrase, Hippocrates believed that all of us have a green life force energy, that is capable of giving us perfect health and complete protection from harm. And that we have to activate this green life force energy.
Wim Hof (00:55:24):
Exactly.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:56:07):
And when I heard you talking, I went, “Oh, he’s been talking to Hippocrates because he knew this 2,500 years ago.” And I think this is absolutely right and I write about this, and one of the things that Hippocrates taught was that a physician was supposed to be a detective, and he was supposed to find out the external forces that were keeping the green life force energy from expressing itself, and remove those external forces, and that’s actually what I practice, I’m just a detective.
And what you’re saying is, I think you can use cold, you can use heat, you can use hormesis as activators for starting green life force energy. And I compliment you on what you’re bringing to the world and please keep it up, because I know I’ve followed you, I think since you appeared on the scene, and you were denigrated as a crackpot. And so you’ve stood the challenges and you’ve taken a scientific approach to this, and you’ve challenged people, “Okay, prove me wrong.” And so far you’ve proven them wrong so, again, I congratulate you.
Wim Hof (00:57:35):
Yes. We have a belief, a firm belief that people are built to be happy, strong and healthy. The green life force is there and we are going to show the way through comparative studies, then speculation will be over.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:57:53):
Very good.
Wim Hof (00:57:55):
Because those people talking that way, they doubt themselves, they believe in this system and I see that the system fails in many ways.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:58:06):
I’m glad you brought that up. People probably listening to this are going, “Oh, there’s no way I can do this, that’s for somebody else.” How do you get past that doubt? Just start with breathing and then challenge yourself?
Wim Hof (00:58:21):
I would say, just practice it once, just try it out once, we got a free app on our website, wimhofmethod.com. You go there, there’s a free app, you try it once, if it doesn’t work, get rid of it.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:58:42):
That’s easy enough. That’s where you go, wimhofmethod.com, and that’s a great idea, let’s all go there right after we sign off. All right, listen, it’s been great meeting you and having you on the show and we’ll do whatever we can do to promote your crazy methods that aren’t crazy, folks, how’s that? And I hope we’ll talk again soon.
Wim Hof (00:59:11):
Right on, Steven, thank you very much and you do great work yourself. Thank you very much. And over to you, bye-bye.
Dr. Steven Gundry (00:59:19):
All right. Take care. Okay, it’s time for our audience question, J Talley72 on iTunes S, “I love the books and the show, I also have a healthy six-month-old boy transitioning from a pure breast milk diet. I need some guidelines for his diet, please help.” Well, a couple of things and thanks for the question, those are great questions.
First of all, The Plant Paradox, family cookbook, which is my latest book, actually goes into all the rules. Not only before you get pregnant, during pregnancy and what to feed your kids. One of the things I would urge you to do, first of all, try to breastfeed for as long as you can, the more the better, quite frankly. Secondly, please, if possible, if you decide to continue with a milk-based product, please use goat milk rather than cow’s milk. Goat’s milk, traditionally, has been called mother’s milk for a very good reason, goat’s milk very much resembles human milk, cow’s milk, in no way, has any comparison to human milk.
That’s number one, number two, once your child is weaned, there is no evidence from human societies that there is any human need for milk, beyond the weaning period of coming off of milk, this all advertising from the dairy industry. But if you feel you must have milk then goat milk is, by far, the most safest. Please, please, please be cautious of formulas, I understand that some women can not breastfeed and that formulas are essential, but make sure those formulas have large amounts of DHA, the component of fish oil, the long-chain omega fatty acids.
Next, just start feeding them from the yes foods, mashed avocado is a great way, mashed carrots is a great way, try to stay away from the no list. There’s no human need for cream of wheat, for example, for oatmeal, there’s absolutely none. None of us ever had these products until 10,000 years ago so I guarantee you, your baby doesn’t need this product. Great question.
Okay, now it’s time for the review of the week. Kaia Baumann, on iTunes, writes, “I’ve always been very interested in food and nutrition, but listening to your podcast has changed my life. I just wanted to say thank you,” with lots of exclamation. Well, thank you, Kaia, reviews like yours help us reach more people and change more lives. If you haven’t yet, please rate us and review us on iTunes, these ratings and reviews really help to get more people listening and I appreciate you writing in, and thanks a lot and enjoy your good health.
Disclaimer. On The Dr. Gundry Podcast, we provide a venue for discussion, and the views expressed by my guests do not necessarily reflect my own. Thanks for joining me on this episode of The Dr. Gundry Podcast. Before you go, I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to watch each episode of The Dr Gundry Podcast, you can always find me on YouTube at youtube.com/drgundry, because I’m Dr. Gundry and I’m always looking out for you.
