Dr. Steven Gundry:

Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Boy, we’re gonna talk about sourdough bread. Now, who doesn’t love the smell of fresh-baked sourdough bread? Who doesn’t love the taste of sourdough bread? And who doesn’t want me to tell you, please eat sourdough bread? Me. I’m going to tell you: please, please, please do not eat sourdough bread, particularly here in the United States.

[0:44]

I know that coming up on ten years ago, on the Dr. Oz show, when I was promoting my bestseller The Plant Paradox, you heard me say that if you had to have a bread, my choice would be sourdough. Why did I say that? Because my good friend Dr. Oz said he was not going to have me on his show unless I told him there was a healthy bread, rather than saying there is no such thing as a healthy bread. So I said, well, the best of a bad choice would be sourdough bread. Somehow that stuck, that I was telling you to eat sourdough bread. And no, I’m not telling you to eat sourdough bread. Here’s why.

[1:43]

At least three studies now confirm that fermentation of gluten, which is a lectin, does not break the gluten molecule into a non-antigenic molecule. Three studies. It does not break down gluten. If you’ve been following my writings, 100% of my patients with autoimmune disease, 100% of my patients with leaky gut, and that’s just about everybody, have antibodies to the various components of gluten. I’m sorry, we do; you do, and I’m sorry, sourdough or any other fermentation of wheat does not break the gluten molecule. I sure wish it did.

[2:43]

What else? Almost all wheat in America is sprayed with Roundup, glyphosate, not as a weed killer but as a desiccant. It’s much easier to harvest a dried-out, dead plant than a living plant that’s loaded with water. So commercial wheat growers spray their fields with Roundup prior to harvest so that the wheat is dead and dry and easier to harvest. The bad news is that glyphosate potentiates the toxicity of gluten. So you’ve got a double whammy on your hands: gluten, which sourdough fermentation doesn’t break down, and it’s even worse because of the glyphosate.

[3:41]

Interestingly, I have some patients who, once we get their leaky gut fixed, and we can, go over to France, and who can resist? They have a baguette or they have a croissant, and they swear on a stack of Bibles that they do just fine. They figure I’ve cured them and that now they can come back to the United States and have our sourdough bread, even from an artisan baker. And within a couple of weeks, they’re reacting to it. The same issues return. We can actually see this on their blood tests. We can see the antibodies come back to gluten. We can see their leaky gut come back.

[5:54]

That’s our problem. Our bread is tainted with glyphosate, which just potentiates the gluten effect that, sadly, sourdough fermentation does not break. I’m sorry. I wish it wasn’t true.

[6:24]

And I guess if I had to do it all over again ten years ago, I wouldn’t have told you that sourdough bread was the best bad alternative. To this day, so many of my patients do not hear the message that sourdough bread is not safe, particularly if we’re dealing with a leaky gut condition. And most of us are, in one way or another, dealing with a leaky gut condition.

[6:54]

So that’s my take on sourdough bread. For that matter, any of our breads in the United States are usually not even raised with fermentation. Traditionally, all bread was raised by fermentation, and gluten was this stretchy protein that caught gas bubbles formed when yeast and/or bacteria were eating the sugars in the dough. That’s what made bread rise. That’s not an exact science, and Americans want fine, even holes in their bread, even their sourdough bread. So bakers use what’s called transglutaminase as the rising agent.

[7:51]

Now here’s the bad news. You probably heard in that long word, “gluten”: transglutaminase. That’s right. It turns out that transglutaminase in most people is a neurotoxin. I can’t tell you the number of people we test for Parkinson’s, for Alzheimer’s, for movement disorders, who test positive for antibodies to transglutaminase because they’ve been eating even gluten-free bread or store-bought commercial bread. So in them it’s a double whammy. They’re still getting gluten, but they’re getting an even worse type of gluten called transglutaminase. So, sorry, folks, in the United States particularly, please stay away from our commercial bread products. Even the sourdough artisanal place that swears they’re using everything right: it’s not gonna work in America.

[8:50]

So what do you do? Well, first of all, there’s no human need for bread. Bread is mostly converted into sugar, and there’s no human need for sugar. But if you gotta have your bread, look for compliant brands like Bread SRSLY, Arise Bakery and Uprising Foods, which all make lectin-light options. Bread SRSLY even makes lectin-free options. If you’re baking on your own, for structure, mix flax and millet flour with tapioca and arrowroot starch, and you’ll get close to a real loaf. Psyllium husk gives you the same stretch gluten does. Unlike gluten, psyllium husk is a prebiotic fiber that actually feeds your gut bacteria. My sturdy sandwich bread recipe in the family cookbook uses that exact combination.

[10:00]

So no, I don’t approve of sourdough bread, at least the kind sold in America. Real fermentation and glyphosate-free wheat may be safe for some people over in Europe, but really be cautious. And no, I don’t grant you permission to eat all the bread in France or Italy that you want. Reach for one of the swaps if you really gotta have bread. But in general, I’m sorry, as much as I love it, I’m a person who doesn’t eat bread.

[10:41]

So we’ll see you next time. And remember to like this and send it to your friends, and tell us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts that you like it. Thanks so much.

[10:55]

Now it’s time for the question of the week. It comes from @Sheila9624 on my YouTube video about vitamin D3 and K2. They asked, “Dr. Gundry, would you say liquid D3 and K2 would be more beneficial than capsule form?” Well, that’s a great question. Quite frankly, through the years I’ve been surprised that people using liquid D3 do not absorb their D3 as well as capsule users, even if they’re taking it sublingually. So no, the capsule versions in my practice work a whole lot better than the liquid versions. And by the way, even though vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin, Dr. Michael Holick, the dean of vitamin D research at Boston University, has shown that you don’t need fat to absorb vitamin D.

[11:36]

Now it’s time for the review of the week. It comes from Senior Health After 60, T6K, on my YouTube video on acne and eczema. They said, “Very interesting discussion. The patients’ stories were fascinating, and the video gives viewers plenty to think about when discussing persistent skin issues with their healthcare professional. Thank you for sharing this perspective.” Well, thank you for writing. It’s fascinating, the connection of the wall of the gut to our skin. Just remember, the wall of your gut is the same surface area as one or two tennis courts, and it’s literally your skin turned inside out. So what happens on the wall of your gut is reflected on your skin. So pay attention, folks. Thanks for writing.

[13:24]

That’s a wrap on today’s episode. Before you go, I want to leave you with one task. If anything you heard today made you think, made you want to dig deeper, or gave you something you’re going to pass along to someone you care about, please take fifteen seconds and leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I know that sounds small, but those reviews are how Apple and Spotify decide which shows to surface to new listeners, and this show only grows when people who’ve never heard of it suddenly find it.

That person finding this podcast today could hear something that genuinely improves their life or the life of someone they love, maybe even saves one. Everything I share here comes from my research when writing my next book and my clinics, where I’ve been seeing patients six days a week for over 25 years, working with nutrition and supplements as the primary treatment. This is real-world medicine. Help me get it to more people.