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Dr. Gundry: Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Joining me today is author and former
fashion model Annabelle Lee. She’s here to talk about her new cookbook, The
Ultimate Grain-Free Cookbook, which is music to my ears and, I think, to my
taste buds. Welcome to podcast.

Annabelle Lee: Thank you so much, Dr. Gundry. I am really honored to be here.
Dr. Gundry: Well, we appreciate you coming on.
Annabelle Lee: Thank you.
Dr. Gundry: I guess we’re really neighbors. You’re from Temecula, California.
Annabelle Lee: Temecula, California, yes. One of the last areas of southern California where

there are real horses and pigs and chickens.

Dr. Gundry: Remind me about horses later on because we have a reader question that we’re
going to talk about, oats, and we’ll get your opinion. Then I’ll give you my
opinion. My oldest daughter is a horsewoman. She’s got six horses, so we’ll talk
about oats.
Annabelle Lee: Wonderful.
Dr. Gundry: What took you to Temecula, first of all?
Annabelle Lee: Well, let’s see. We had four young men growing quickly and we were looking for

a place that we could still buy property that was affordable.

Dr. Gundry: These are your kids, I assume?
Annabelle Lee: Our kids, yes.
Dr. Gundry: Okay.
Annabelle Lee: Four boys. We found Temecula. We were in the southern California area at the
time and I’ve always loved Temecula, the smell of the orange blossoms that
used to be there and now it’s a lot of grapes, but it’s beautiful and there was lots
of space to find some property to raise our boys. That’s what we did. We built
our own house and used a lot of teenage muscle to help us stand walls and

Dr. Gundry: Well, it sounds like you needed some teenage muscle because you’ve actually

dealt with issues of autoimmune disease.

Annabelle Lee: Yes.
Dr. Gundry: You want to got into that because that’s an area of my interest, as well.

Annabelle Lee: Yes, and you’ve done so much to help. You’ve opened my eyes so much, as well.
Well, my story goes actually back a couple of years to when I was about 18.

Dr. Gundry: A couple, right?
Annabelle Lee: During the time I was pregnant with my first child, I got a urinary tract infection,
first and only one I ever had. I received antibiotics and didn’t think too much of
it because it was supposedly normal, but after I had Josh, I began experiencing
mysterious knee swelling and pain. The doctors, of course, tested me.
Rheumatoid arthritis was always the first one. They did all kinds of tests. Then
the swelling would go away on its own and nobody knew what it was. It was just
mysterious. Then throughout the years, we moved back east and I kept really
busy. We had more children and after each child, especially, my knees would
swell, come and go, and no doctors could … They were drained and tested and
they could never figure it out. I just chalked it up to being under stress and this
is what my hormonal or something that my knees did. That was years ago and it
just kept happening.

Annabelle Lee: Eventually, I wound up getting another infection. This one was years later,
where I felt like I couldn’t raise my arms within days. I got it from food. It was
scary, but then it kind of went away. Then not long after that, I began
experiencing widespread joint and muscle pain. My knees swelled up terribly
then and I wouldn’t be able to get rid of the swelling. I had all kinds of things
going on. One of the first things I gravitated to was to quit gluten because that’s
like well, maybe there’s gluten. I was having digestive issues, too. I was putting
on weight and just not feeling well. I was reaching probably my 40th birthday at
that time. I quit gluten, but unfortunately, I like to bake and also I would buy
things, as well, but gluten-free products are so full of starches and other grains
that are not good for you and sugars and that.

Dr. Gundry: And sugars.
Annabelle Lee: Yes, so I really started putting weight on mostly in my midsection. I was like wait
a second. I think I’m eating healthier and I’m not and so I really looked into the
labels and what I was eating and realized that all this sugar and starch was not
the way to go. Did more research and found what I felt was to eliminate grains
because of not the lectins at that time because I didn’t understand that, but all
the starches that are in grains and just the fact it didn’t make sense to me. Our
company, we say, “Silly people. Grains are for the birds,” because those are real
grain eaters. I think of human beings as not grinding up little pieces of grain to
sustain themselves is one thing, but we eat massive amounts in this country.
Annabelle Lee: When I stopped eating the grains and the starches and the sugars, a really funny
thing happened. I thought I was eating fairly healthy. I didn’t eat sugar very
much, but what people don’t realize is when you’re eating grains and starch,
that turns to sugar and then when you add sugar to it, as well, you’re just
inundating your body with this processed sugar. When I quit doing this to my

body and not even little bits, I literally broke out. My torso broke out in little
hives and the back of my head, this is kind of gross, but it’s true. I got like a
cradle cap in the back of my head, which is what babies are born with when
there’s too much yeast in their bodies. My body was literally, I guess, the yeasts
were starving and my body was sloughing them off. I had this in the back of my
head for probably two months before it completely disappeared and then all
these little bumps finally disappeared and I felt like a new person.

Annabelle Lee: My aches and pains had diminished a lot. I gradually started losing my what I call
a starch belly. I just felt much better, so I knew that this was the path I was
going to stay on. I really started developing comfort food type recipes to feed
my family because I couldn’t just cook for myself knowing that I was feeding
them things that weren’t good or letting them buy crap at the grocery stores
when I knew I was eating healthy, so I tried to combine things. We also lived out
in the country, so it was aways from the grocery store. I had the teenage boys
and husband, they were kind of captive and they had to eat what I made them.
Luckily, I’m a pretty good cook and I came up with some comfort food recipes,
everything from lasagna gnocchi to the breads, which are my favorite, and
everybody got happy.

Dr. Gundry: Was there a lot of complaining in the household when you started doing this?
Annabelle Lee: No because they didn’t really realize that I had switched over. I found
sweeteners that I could use. In the early times, I used erythritol and stevia, but
now I use mostly monk fruit. The monk fruit it so great, but when you combine
them in the right quantities and that, the taste is so similar to sugar that no one
complains at all and so it turned into this.

Dr. Gundry: This has been a labor of personal love for yourself. Have the family members
seen any difference in their health or they just went along for the ride?
Annabelle Lee: Quite honestly, they’ve kind of grown up and they did good, but they didn’t
really realize any difference at the time. That was how mom cooked and how
we ate and everything.
Dr. Gundry: Weird mom.
Annabelle Lee: Weird mom, but they were all really good about that. Now they’re young men

and they’re off on their own and stuff and so I can’t really say-
Dr. Gundry: Control.

Annabelle Lee: I can’t control what they’re eating, but I do know that when they come home
and they’re reminded when they don’t eat like they should, they do feel a
difference. Most of them are all really careful about what they eat because they
felt a difference.

Dr. Gundry: Well, I think that’s interesting because certainly in my patient population, when
we get them not only grain free, but, for the most part, lectin free, when they
stray or they cheat, they almost immediately feel it in one way or another.
That’s always been interesting to me. Some of our best folks will sometimes just
goof. They’ll forget something, like the lady I talk about in the book who went
on a cashew kick and her markers for rheumatoid arthritis reappeared. When I
met with her, said, “You’re cheating on something.” She said, “No, I’m not. You
know me.” I said, “Oh, you’re cheating on something.” We went down the list
and cashews. She said, “Oh, my gosh. I’ve got a bag of cashews in the car right
now. I completely forgot about them.” Yeah, it’s very interesting that usually,
you can find ways of convincing people just by the way they feel to do this.

Annabelle Lee: Right.
Dr. Gundry: When you were you actually diagnosed with an autoimmune disease or …
Annabelle Lee: About four years ago. I was not real big on going to a lot of doctors and the ones
I went to they wanted to put me on prednisone. They wanted to put me on
methotrexate more recently, which is a chemo drug. The way Western doctors
wanted to treat the autoimmune, they just wanted to treat symptoms and I
knew that there was more to it. Yes, I was diagnosed on symptoms and
biomarkers for everyone always thought I had rheumatoid arthritis, but it is not
rheumatoid arthritis. It could be lupus. It could be any number of other arthritis
symptoms and fibromyalgia and all these different labels that they have.
Annabelle Lee: From eliminating the grains and the sugar and the starches for me and then
taking it the next step after reading your book and discovering that the things
that I was still eating that I wasn’t sure whether they bothered me. The thing
that can be really confusing is unless you dissect your diet to where you’re only
eating, testing one thing at a time, you don’t really know unless you are able to
read a book like yours and you see that oh, well, sure if you’re eating cashew
chicken and it’s got eight other ingredients in it, how do you know it’s the
cashews? It’s obviously the cashews.

Dr. Gundry: Yeah. One of the interesting things is lupus is what we call the great
masquerader. There’s actually now over 200,000 cases of lupus in the United
States each year. All the autoimmune diseases, as you know, we have this
incredible epidemic. When I was first in training, autoimmune disease were so
rare that the tests we’d get for them back then, we’d call them funny tests
because they were really funny because we never really got them very much.
Now, every commercial on TV is for immunosuppressant treatment for these
common autoimmune diseases, but lupus is the great masquerader.
Dr. Gundry: Lupus, interestingly enough, arthritis is one of the biggest presentations of
lupus. Most people think it’s skin rashes, that it’s a butterfly rash on the face or
rashes elsewhere, but certainly in my practice, we see a great number of people
who have lupus as their arthritis. That’s their marker. The other thing is lupus is

really good at destroying kidneys. There’s such a thing as lupus nephritis. You
may have no symptoms. You may have no other signage, but you may have your
doctor says, “Gee, it’s funny your kidneys don’t work very well,” and they never
even bother to look to see if it could be lupus nephritis. People with
fibromyalgia, it’s often lupus as the cause of that.

Dr. Gundry: One of the things you found out is that we do have really good

immunosuppressant drugs out there. As a transplant immunologist, I got up
close and personal with immunosuppressant drugs. What I try to convince
people and I compliment you for not going down that road …

Annabelle Lee: It wasn’t easy.
Dr. Gundry: … is that you don’t have a heart transplant in you. You don’t have a kidney
transplant in you. These are drugs that are designed to make your immune
system not respond to a foreign object like a heart or a kidney. What got me
interested in this whole area is that you and other people, believe it or not, I
have antinuclear antibody that I can turn on and turn off. I presented myself as
a paper at the American Heart Association earlier this year. This is very common
and the point is it’s foreign bodies that are invading us. Now, I happen to think
that one of these foreign bodies is a foreign protein called lectin and by
eliminating grains, you’re eliminating a lot of lectin-containing foods. What I’ve
tried to do is get even farther along the line.

Dr. Gundry: Would you mind, I don’t want to put you on the spot, can you hold up your

fingers and see these cute little nodules?

Annabelle Lee: Yes, aren’t they lovely?
Dr. Gundry: Early on, I used to see a lot of women that would come in with these nodules
and they’d say, “Oh, this is just arthritis. It’s perfectly normal. I take a lot of Advil
and Aleve and I get through the day.” One of the earliest things I found by
having women follow this …

PART 1 OF 3 ENDS [00:16:04]

Dr. Gundry: … Things I found by having women follow this diet, they usually brought their
husbands in for me to fix, but they were usually thin women with these nodules.
As we went along, they’d come in and say, “I want you to look at my hands. The
nodules are gone.” and they would … and sure enough, they were gone. Now all
of my patients, particularly with Lupus as an arthritic marker, you can get these
things to go away.

Annabelle Lee: Well, I’m so excited. I’m trying your lectin elimination right now and I’ve already
experienced definite lessening of my painful symptoms. So, I still have a long
ways to go because I’ve only been doing this for maybe six weeks, and I’ve

definitely discovered things that I should never have been eating all this time,
and so I’m so anxious to see what other things will happen.

Dr. Gundry: Well, we’re all in this together. For instance, last year when the plant paradox
came out, one of the first podcasts that I went on was Joseph Mercola’s
podcast. I’ve been a big fan of his for a very long time. Before the podcast
started, he said, “How come I don’t know about you, I should have known about
you?” He says this is so important about lectins that he had a cookbook coming
out for is “Fat For Fuel” book. He says, “We’ve actually stopped the production
on that cookbook, and we’re removing lectins from the recipes. I’m that
impressed with …” He said, “Why didn’t I know about this?” So, good for you for

doing this. So-
Annabelle Lee: I do, excuse me for interrupting you, but I do wish that I had read your book

before I finished mine because I would have changed some things, but thank
goodness. So, where I call for zucchini, as you’ve said, you can use the baby
zucchini and peel them and seed them.

Dr. Gundry: Yeah, I think those are important tricks. We know that the immature zucchini or
yellow squash for instance, if they … or even a cucumber, if they haven’t started
forming seeds yet, they’re usually quite low in lectin content. So, the baby
stuff’s pretty safe and then all you do is peel the skin off where the other lectins
are, and you’re good to go.

Dr. Gundry: In part three of the program we have people start reintroducing lectins. Some
people say, “Oops, even these guys, I react to.” But great amount of time,
people can get away with things just fine. It’s interesting, I was, years ago, I was
talking with Loren Cordain who’s the professor at Colorado State who actually is
the father of the Paleo Diet, and we were actually going to do a book together,
and we’re kind of talking about things. I said, “Well, you know we got to have a
lot of chia seed recipes.” He says, “What?” He said, “Don’t you read the
literature?” And I said, “What do you mean? Of course I read the literature.” He
said, “No you don’t.” He said, “Chia seeds are an American seed and they’re
loaded with lectins and they cause inflammation in humans.”

Annabelle Lee: Wow.
Dr. Gundry: I say, “Come on.” He said, “I’m going to send you two papers right now and
you’ll call me back.” So he emailed me the papers, and sure enough there was a
human study looking at whether the Omega 3s in chia seeds would be
incorporated into us, Omega 3, the good fat.

Dr. Gundry: So, they designed a study where half the group got chia seeds and the other half
got a different seed that looked like a chia seed, I think it was a poppy seed,
which are safe. Yeah. So, the group that got the chia seeds, sure enough, their
Omega 3s went up in their bloodstream. Great. But they said, “Well, Omega 3s
are anti-inflammatory. So we’re going to measure markers of inflammation

including C-reactive protein.” Lo and behold, the chia seed group, even though
their Omega 3s went up, their inflammation went up. Then I went, “How can I
be so stupid?”

Dr. Gundry: So, we can’t be smart on everything all the time.
Annabelle Lee: How many years ago was this?
Dr. Gundry: Oh gosh, this must have been almost 10 years ago now.
Annabelle Lee: Yeah.
Dr. Gundry: Yeah.
Annabelle Lee: Boy.
Dr. Gundry: Almost 10 years ago.
Annabelle Lee: Well, that was one of the first things I discovered because I don’t really use … I

use psyllium husk mostly as a binder …

Dr. Gundry: Perfectly safe.
Annabelle Lee: … in my recipes, but I don’t use much flax or chia, but I do like chia seeds. That
was one of the first things when I read your book. I was like, “Chia seeds.” I was
like, “I’m going to try that right now.” I had chia seeds on an empty stomach
with a little yogurt. Yogurt, I’m okay with, and the chia seeds immediately, I
noticed, gave me a stomachache. I was shocked because when I’ve eaten them

in the past, and maybe gotten a stomach ache, I hadn’t-
Dr. Gundry: Made the connection.

Annabelle Lee: Yeah, I hadn’t made the connection that it was the chia seed. So Ryan, I blamed
it on everything else I’m sure. But yeah, I love your book because of this.
Dr. Gundry: No. Yeah, I wouldn’t have believed it, but the evidence is out there. We just

have to be willing to accept some of this, what sounds craziness.
Annabelle Lee: Right. Well, unfortunately, so many of our doctors don’t know, they aren’t
aware of this, or the nutrition that can be helpful. For instance, when my
rheumatologist saw this and he tried to convince me it was osteoarthritis, that
my joints had just worn out and I was like, “What? That doesn’t even make
sense. The first joint of my fingers are wearing out? I don’t think so.” So, when
you get advice like that from a doctor, it makes you not want to go back and
look for other alternative things out there.
Dr. Gundry: Let’s come back and talk about that.

Annabelle Lee: Okay.
Dr. Gundry: Let’s take a break and we’ll be back.
Dr. Gundry: So, welcome back. We’re talking today with Annabelle Lee, who’s the author of
The Ultimate Grain Free Cookbook, the ultimate. So, you brought some ultimate
grain free goodies for us. Why don’t you tell me about the book and some of
your favorite recipes, which I assume you brought for us today?

Annabelle Lee: Yes, I did. I did. Well, when I first started cooking this way, and I wanted to
eliminate the starches, and the grains, and that something in my little brain
thought real foods, whole foods have fiber, and starches, and oils that they
bring with them. I thought I have a food processor, and I have a blender, and
why not use whole foods and make some of these comfort foods, and toss,
ditch those starches, and awful flours. I just started experimenting and doing
exactly that. I actually used the food processor in the beginning mostly, but my
husband who has seven sisters, and they don’t all like to cook.
Annabelle Lee: One told me, “Anna, I love your recipes, but I just, I’m afraid of a food
processor.” So I said, “Okay, let’s see, let me do more with the blender.” So, I
reworked a lot of them because everyone owns a blender and it’s so easy.

Dr. Gundry: Now, do you need a heavy duty blender?
Annabelle Lee: Well, I happen to own a Vitamix that I just love and is worth every penny, but I
believe that most of any decent blender will blend these up because there’s
nothing to too difficult to do with it. You just run it a little longer if you need to
for a smoother batter.

Annabelle Lee: But, I also discovered that we don’t have to cook the vegetables or the fruit
before we use them. We just toss them in the blend … chop them up, toss them
in the blender or the food processor, and you cook them afterwards. So, that
eliminates a step. There’s a lot of recipes where people do use different squash
or something to the recipe, but they always cook them. I thought, “Why do they
cook them? They get cooked afterwards anyway.”

Annabelle Lee: So, that’s what this is. This is yam gnocchi. It’s made with raw orange yams, and
almond flour, and coconut flour, and egg, and a little psyllium as a binder for it. I
think it’s delicious.

Dr. Gundry: You cook them the same way? I mean, do you boil them and let them float up?
Annabelle Lee: You can do that, but the way I like to cook them is I toss them in olive oil in a
skillet with a lid, and I pop them in the oven for 20 minutes. That way, they stay
a little more intact and they don’t soak up quite as much water. So, that’s how I
prefer to cook them.

Dr. Gundry: I’m a huge, huge fan of gnocchi. It’s always so hard. I’m going to talk with my

mouth full.
Annabelle Lee: Good.
Dr. Gundry: To get gnocchi that tastes like gnocchi. I want more of it, but next time. The
other thing, while I’m here, we have this beautiful basil. As everybody knows,
I’m a huge basil fan.

Annabelle Lee: Me too.
Dr. Gundry: Perfect. Really good.
Annabelle Lee: Thank you.
Dr. Gundry: Really good.
Annabelle Lee: Well, I have several gnocchi recipes in my book where you can use rather than
the yam, you can use the cauliflower, or broccoli, or carrot, just about any
vegetable that you want to use, you can use. You might just have to adjust a tiny
bit of coconut flour, which you, after you start cooking this way, you quickly
learn how to do that.

Dr. Gundry: Well, I think one of the things, you were cooking for four boys and you were
tricking them. One of the things that I tried to do with our cookbook, and I
applaud you, is parents, when I’m on radio shows, particularly from the Midwest
and the south, everybody says, “How do I save my kids’ lives? We’re killing
them? My children are either with the food at school or out to eat.” How do we
get good food into them? What are the tricks?

Annabelle Lee: Well, the first thing that I did was changed my entire pantry. My cupboards, my
refrigerator. You can’t keep the same crap in there and think that you’re not
going to use it. So, you replace it and you find the replacements. I provide some
of that on my website, and in the book things that you can use instead of. Once
you have those in your cupboard, it’s much easier to start using. Then when you
had the cookbooks that walk you through it, then it is even easier.

Annabelle Lee: But, I say you don’t need to say anything to your kids. You just start cooking this
way. I’m sorry, but I know that it is not as … it’s a little more laborious thing
going to the downtown fast food place and grabbing a pizza, but if you want to
improve your life and your children’s life, you have to put the effort in.
Annabelle Lee: Some of it is starting right up here with just changing your way of thinking about
not being sucked into what this big business, and big pharmacy, and that tells
us. It’s just like, go ahead and be sick, and fat, and tired, and unhealthy, and take
a pill, and you’ll be okay.

Annabelle Lee: None of us want to bring our kids up with that when we’ve started realizing
what’s happened over these decades, that if we can change it, it starts with our
head, our mindset, and then just a little old school learning.

Annabelle Lee: That’s why I love the blenders in that these days because it kind of makes it fun.
If you’ve got younger kids there, they’re like, “Wow, you can throw this apple in
here and make these cupcakes.” It can be fun. It really can, but you have to put
the time in. You do.

Dr. Gundry: That’s true. So, do you do what some working parents do? Do you make batches

on a Saturday or a Sunday?

Annabelle Lee: I used to, but now that my boys are grown and mostly out of the house, I don’t
do that so much because it’s I’m cooking more for my husband and I. Sometimes
I will do that, but quite honestly I prefer a shorter time in the kitchen more
often than spending the day meal prepping. That’s just not so much my style.
But, I will say that there are times when I’m lazy and I don’t want to cook at all.
That’s one reason why we made our baking mix because I wanted a slice of
bread sometimes, and I didn’t feel like coming down and spending 20 minutes
making the loaf. So, I have a baking mix now that I can just pull out of the
cupboard and add a couple of things, and the next thing you know, you’ve got a
loaf of bake bread, and it makes life much easier.

Dr. Gundry: So this is from your baking mix?
Annabelle Lee: Yes. This is, yes.
Dr. Gundry: Now what flavors do you have?
Annabelle Lee: This is a baguette. I don’t really have flavors, but we do have, you’re able to
make a sandwich loaf, or hamburger buns, or baguettes, or cinnamon rolls.

Dr. Gundry: I saw a cinnamon roll mix.
Annabelle Lee: Yes. Cinnamon roll was a big favorite with the boys. I usually use erythritol and
monk fruit to sweeten. Yeah, I mean it tastes, to me it tastes just like real bread.
You can toast this up in the oven even, and it gets crunchy and crispy on the
outside. It’s made with almonds, and coconut, and psyllium, and eggs. We do
have a local bakery here that makes vegan hamburger buns for the food service
industry, so they’re using a similar recipe to this, but it’s vegan. So, no eggs.

Dr. Gundry: No eggs?
Annabelle Lee: Yeah.
Dr. Gundry: But basically your recipe.

Annabelle Lee: Yes. My recipe, and we’re working on, the newest is an organic mix that will also

be nut-free unless, of course, the FDA classifies coconut as a nut.

Dr. Gundry: Is it? Yeah, it is a true nut.
Annabelle Lee: Okay. So, I guess I can’t call it nut-free, but it doesn’t use almonds even though I
think almonds are great once the skins are removed, there’s a lot of people that
still don’t want to use it, I guess. So yeah.

Dr. Gundry: Yeah, it’s interesting. We certainly ask people to get this peel off of almonds as
much safer, but I have several rheumatoid arthritis patients who go on a kind of
an almond flour kick. Everything. They react to a lot of almonds. So, also
almonds are, as you probably know, very water intensive and they huge, huge
amounts of water. In California with our drought, we do have to be careful
about tree nuts in general, but almonds are the most water intensive of all the

Annabelle Lee: Okay. Well, see. Just another good reason to maybe have another choice.
Dr. Gundry: Alright. So, we’ve had a fabulous Italian dinner and I got to put it in my favorite
line, remember the only purpose of bread to get olive oil into your mouth.

Annabelle Lee: It is. That’s true.
Dr. Gundry: Really, what I like to do with bread. If I am going to eat, and I’m going to eat

yours is use it as a sponge for olive oil.

Annabelle Lee: Yes.

PART 2 OF 3 ENDS [00:32:04]

Dr. Gundry: … yours. You said; use it as a sponge for olive oil. One of the things early on in
my study of the Italians was, we’d go to these little Trattoria up what are called
white roads, little towns and they’d bring bread to the table, but you’d see that
the Italians would never touch the bread, unlike Americans who, you know,
were tearing into the bread immediately. They’d only start tearing a piece of
bread when they’d finish a course and they’d pour olive oil into the bowl or the
plate and then they take the bread and you know, just sop it up. I have so many
ruined shirts from olive oil dripping off whatever I was using. I finally asked one
one day, I said, you know, in my halting Italian, why do that. The only purpose of
bread is to get into your mouth. Why else would you eat it? They were right. It’s
just a sponge. Vow you’ve got a perfect sponge. They won’t kill you.

Annabelle Lee: There you go. That’s right.
Dr. Gundry: Wonderful. Wonderful.

Annabelle Lee: It’s funny when you bring up the olive oil that we were talking during the break
a little bit and I mentioned that I used some that was very bitter because it had
been pressed with the seeds I guess. Then you suggested another type that I
could try. I think maybe even some people who have mistakenly but the brands
that maybe I’ve bought before and they’ve never actually tasted really good
olive oil and I mean, that’s a big difference in whether or not you’re going to
love what you’re sopping up and putting in your mouth or it’s going to taste a
little bit bitter. “Oh but, Dr. Gundry tells me how healthy this is for me, but it’s
so bitter.

Dr. Gundry: Well, bitter olive oil is actually the most healthiest of all the olive oils.
Annabelle Lee: Because the seed is pressed?
Dr. Gundry: More bitter … no. More bitter, more better. Olive oil, if the seed is pressed, is
actually the final process of making cheap olive oil and it’s actually labeled
pumice, P-U-M-I-C-E.

Annabelle Lee: Okay.
Dr. Gundry: We almost never see that in the United States. It’s used primarily as a cooking
oil in Italy, but if it’s bitter, the more bitterness actually is the polyphenol
content and the polyphenols are actually what you have olive oil it’s health
Annabelle Lee: Oh. Okay.
Dr. Gundry: More bitter, more better.
Annabelle Lee: Okay.
Dr. Gundry: A lot of people, when they’re getting to know olive oil, don’t want that
bitterness. I look for it, but there are olive oils that actually have very little
bitterness. They taste buttery, some actually taste grassy, so have a fun olive oil
tasting. You can even go to Trader Joe’s, just as an example, and buy four or five
olive oils and they’re not expensive or go to Costco and buy several of their olive
oils. They’re not expensive and then get some of your bread or some of your
Nioki and put some out and try each one and you’re going to find one that you
go, “Oh, I like this.” You’re going to say, “I cough whenever I eat that one.”
Believe it or not, coughing when you try olive oil is one of the best ways to judge
that it’s got huge amounts of polyphenol.

Annabelle Lee: Wow. Well that is some really interesting notes I’ve ever heard.
Dr. Gundry: More bitter, more better.
Annabelle Lee: Okay. I will remember that.

Dr. Gundry: Okay. Okay. We’ve had all this great Nioki and we’ve had bread dipped in olive
oil and now it’s time for the, for the desert. What do you got for dessert?
Annabelle Lee: Okay. We have what I called jammies and the base is made with a just ripe
banana and a few other goodies in there. Then the jam is a raw jam, apricot. I
make raw jam by combining a little bit of dried fruit with fresh fruit in the food
processor and maybe a drop of monk fruit if you need it, but it blends up to a
really nice consistency for a raw jam and you get all those good enzymes and
that that we don’t tend to eat enough of. I think raw food is important in our

Dr. Gundry: Yeah. My wife and I were raw foodist for nine months. I must say it was

probably the healthiest nine months of my life.

Annabelle Lee: Wow.
Dr. Gundry: The problem with being a raw foodist is it’s rather impractical, particularly if
you’re traveling as much as we do. Also, it’s interesting, the vast majority of raw
food chefs who became very famous as raw food chefs give it up, which is
fascinating to me.
Annabelle Lee: It’s labor intensive, isn’t it?
Dr. Gundry: It takes a lot of work and a lot of concentration, but I think you’re right, the
benefits are definitely there. The more we can get raw foods into our diet, we
eat about 85% of our food raw, which I think is a reasonable compromise.

Annabelle Lee: Sure. Sure.
Dr. Gundry: Okay. I’m gonna have my dessert and good for you you’re not slathering this
with a big, giant thing of jam. You’re just adding some flavor right?

Annabelle Lee: No, you don’t need it. Yeah.
Dr. Gundry: Okay.
Annabelle Lee: Yeah, a little flavor and apricots are in season.
Dr. Gundry: It is great flavor. What you’re saying is, I can have all this great stuff and I’m
going to actually improve my health even though I think, “This is really decadent
and you know, I’m spoiling myself.: Right?

Annabelle Lee: Right.
Dr. Gundry: Okay. I’m going to be a naysayer for a minute. Why? Why go to the trouble?
Maybe this is all in your head that you know, “Oh, I react to gluten,” and. “Oh, I
react to corn.” Maybe this is a placebo effect. What say you?

Annabelle Lee: Well, my experience, I know that it’s not the placebo effect because I have
stopped and started on just to double check and make sure that this was exactly
what was either bothering me or not. I think when people experience it,
whether they’re suffering from pain or digestive issues or just an illness like
diabetes or carrying too much weight, when they allot a certain amount of time
for their health and to do something like this, eliminating grains and Lectins, et
Cetera, when they experience the difference, they’ll know it’s not the placebo
effect. It’s not something that you just have to listen to me or even listen to you.
You try it for yourself. It’s not that hard to do. You’re on this earth for quite a
few years. If you can spend a few weeks and test out something that so many
people have benefited from, then it just makes sense to me that they would
want to do that.

Dr. Gundry: Yeah, I think you’re right. One of my favorite stories that I tell in the book, about
a young college student from Wisconsin who had Crohn’s Disease and she was
treated by a very eminent professor at the Mayo Clinic. She was given my two
page list of don’t eat this and don’t eat this by one of her advisors. She asked if I
could talk to her on Skype and it was around Christmas time a few years ago.
She got on the Skype and she said, “You know, I’ve been on every diet for
Crohn’s and my professor says diet has nothing to do with it. My advisor said,
you know, you really got to try this.” She said, “After two weeks I started having
the first normal bowel movements in my life and I’ve had normal bowel
movements, you know, ever since.”

Dr. Gundry: She said, “A few days ago, I called my professor at the Mayo Clinic to tell him
that I was cured of Crohn’s and he says, ‘what do you mean?’ She said, well, you
know, I’ve been following this kind of two page list. He said, “Well, don’t be
ridiculous. Food has nothing to do with Crohn’s. It’s genetic. You’ve been, you’ve
been shammed. This is a placebo effect.'” She said, “I was so upset I got off the
phone with him and my mother was baking Christmas cookies.” She said, “I ate
two Christmas cookies, and within about an hour I started having intense
abdominal cramps and then I had to run to the bathroom and I had bloody

Dr. Gundry: She said, “I’m fine now. I went right back.” She said, “Why don’t doctors know
about this?” I told her and I will tell anyone who will listen that you can’t see
unless your eyes are open. Unfortunately for most physicians, our eyes have
been closed that food could have that dramatic effect on us because we’ve been
told it doesn’t. We’ve been told by big food, big Pharma, big chemical, that food
has very little to do with anything about our health. I really appreciate you
coming on today and telling us your story.
Annabelle Lee: Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Gundry: You got to stay in touch because I want to see if getting rid of a few more of

these [crosstalk 00:41:32] will make these guys go.

Annabelle Lee: Oh yes, I want to see. I’m working on it. Oh, you will be the first person. I will
definitely stay in touch because I have noticed a difference already.

Dr. Gundry: I promised you at the start that we are going to talk about oats and we actually
are going to talk about oats because we had a question from Nita. Nita writes,
“Good morning. Does soaking old fashioned oats overnight and rinsing next day
remove lectins?” Well Nita, that’s a great question and answer’s two parts.
Number one, there’s no human need for oats. Oats are grain. Oats are useful for
fattening horses for winter according to my oldest daughter, who is a excellent
horsewoman and who should know. We have no need for oats. Number two,
there is a Lectin in oats that cross reacts with Gluten. That means your body
can’t tell the difference between a gluten lectin and an oat lectin.

Dr. Gundry: Part two of the answer is, does soaking help remove lectins? The answer is yes.
Soaking always helps remove lectins and rinsing multiple times. That’s why
traditional cultures almost always soak lectin containing grains. For instance, the
Incas soaped quinoa for 48 hours and then they fermented it and then they
cooked it and it’s not on the package directions. Your answer is, does it help
remove lectins? Yes, but more importantly, there is no human need for oats
unless you’re a horse and you want to get fat and it’s exactly what’s going to
happen to you when you use your oatmeal for breakfast. I hope that answers a
really good question Nita. How do people find you? What’s your website?
Annabelle Lee: Well, my website is californiacountrygal.com and they can find me there. They
can find me on Instagram, they can find me on Facebook. Actually, my husband
and I will be doing a Kickstarter campaign starting next month.

Dr. Gundry: Ah-ha.
Annabelle Lee: Yes, to be able to bring out new organic mixes in a broader line rather than just

the baked breads that we have. Other goodies to bring out.
Dr. Gundry: Can you get your mixes in a grocery story yet or is it online?
Annabelle Lee: There are a few grocery stores. The select grocery stores, but basically we’re on

Amazon and on our website right now.
Dr. Gundry: Okay. They can go to Amazon.
Annabelle Lee: Yes, they can go to Amazon.
Dr. Gundry: I’m going to find out as you know, we have an Amazon page for Gundry M.D.. I

Got to make sure we get your stuff.
Annabelle Lee: Oh yeah, that would be wonderful. Wonderful.

Dr. Gundry: If you’re listening or watching, check Gundry M.D. Amazon page and we’ll get it

on there as soon as we can.

Annabelle Lee: Awesome.
Dr. Gundry: Okay.
Annabelle Lee: Thank you so much Dr. Gundry and thank you for the work that you’re doing
and I can’t wait to see your new book that you’re writing and learn even more.
Dr. Gundry: All right. Well, we’re going to have a quick start plant paradox program out in

January. Then the next big hard cover is the longevity paradox.

Annabelle Lee: Ah-ha.
Dr. Gundry: How to die young at a ripe old age.
Annabelle Lee: I like that.
Dr. Gundry: Alright, well good luck with the book.
Annabelle Lee: Thank you.
Dr. Gundry: Please check this book out, take control not only of your health, but your
family’s health and any of my female listeners, this is such a true story in our
medical field right now that your complaints are not given enough validity when
you go to your healthcare provider and don’t stop looking until you find
someone who will take you seriously.

Annabelle Lee: Yes.
Dr. Gundry: I am Dr. Gundry and I’m always looking out for you. Take care of yourself.

PART 3 OF 3 ENDS [00:45:37]