Dr. Gundry's private practice: (760) 323-5553

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast, the weekly podcast, where Dr. G. gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life.

Dr. Gundry (00:14):
As you know, I’m a self-proclaimed vegaquarian. When I eat animal protein, I eat wild-caught seafood, usually twice a week. Why? Because seafood is rich in some of the most important nutrients in the human diet, like long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, phospholipids, and there’s even some cool studies showing that eating fish promotes a healthy weight. But in order to ensure you’re getting fresh nutrient-rich seafood without hormones or toxins, it needs to be wild caught. As I always say, you are what your food ate. And farmed fish are fed in an inflammatory fat diet filled with lectins like corn and soybeans. Long story short, if you eat farm fish, it’s absolutely horrible for you. Fortunately, I’ve come across a great solution. It’s called the Wild Alaskan Seafood Box. The company works with small boat fishermen to deliver the freshest, tastiest and most nutritious Alaskan seafood right to your door, very single month.

Dr. Gundry (01:07):
They offer three different boxes. The salmon box, the white fish box, or the red and white combo, which is what I order. Plus a customized box, you can change it any time. Believe me, this is some of the best fish. And because it’s wild caught, I know I’m getting some of the most nutritious seafood on the planet. And right, now you can try it for yourself and get $25 off your first month’s box, and get free scallops for life when you use code drgundry, all one word at checkout. Just go to wildalaskanseafoodbox.com. Again, that’s wildalaskanseafoodbox.com, and use code, drgundry, D-R-G-U-N-D-R-Y, and get $25 off your first month’s box and free scallops for life.

Dr. Gundry (01:55):
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. So if you’re a pet owner like me, there’s a good chance that you would do just about anything to keep your furry family members around for as long as possible. And it turns out that what your pet needs to stay healthy and happy isn’t so different from us humans, because if there’s one thing that’s going to impact their potential for a long, healthy life, it’s diet. In just a moment, I’ll talk with Dana Osborne who not only says dogs do best on some of the same healthy foods we eat, but they also thrive on a lectin-free diet. Oh my gosh. And Dana knows what she’s talking about. Before healing her dog, she transformed her own health using the Plant Paradox program. Well, on today’s episode, Dana will explain why most store-bought foods are making pets overweight, arthritic and skin problems. What we should really be feeding our pets and the easiest way is to start incorporating the Plant Paradox program into your pet’s diet today. Dana, I’m so excited to hear about your story, and thanks for coming on the podcast.

Dana Osbourne (03:13):
Thank you for having me Dr. Gundry.

Dr. Gundry (03:14):
So, you’ve come such a long way in terms of your health. Can you share that journey and what you were experiencing?

Dana Osbourne (03:25):
Well, I grew up in an Italian family. My maiden name is [Pellegrini 00:03:29], and the funny thing is my mom was actually Irish, but my father insisted that she make Italian food, and honestly, if you had the choice between Irish food or Italian food, which would you choose?

Dr. Gundry (03:40):
Italian. I agree.

Dana Osbourne (03:42):
So we had a lot of pasta for dinner with tomato sauce, or we’d have like steak with a side of pasta, a chicken with a side of pasta, we’d have pasta for lunch. It was just, we had a lot of carbohydrates. And at that time I was young, so I could handle it. I’d eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, I loved going to the movies and having a big bowl of popcorn, but my health didn’t start to deteriorate at that point. I was actually asked to join a ballet company in New York, and I was a professional ballerina for several years.

Dr. Gundry (04:16):

Dana Osbourne (04:18):
It was a huge passion. I’ve only had a couple of animals, ballet and little bits of skiing in there. But anyways, when I went to New York, I had to lose quite a bit of weight. They took out all my carb, sugar, I couldn’t eat popcorn anymore and things like that, and I lost the weight. I was dancing eight, honestly sometimes 10 hours a day and I was doing great. And it really wasn’t until I moved to the Napa Valley, that things started to change a little bit. I basically retired from dancing still in my early 20s, and started being like a regular person, eating three meals a day. So snacks in between and I wasn’t dancing.

Dana Osbourne (04:59):
So I was walking and hiking and things like that. I was pretty much okay, I started gaining weight, I didn’t like that, but I knew, “Well, I’m not a professional ballerina anymore.” And then I took a job with a wine magazine, traveling all over the United States.

Dr. Gundry (05:14):

Dana Osbourne (05:16):
Yeah. Uh-oh. Winemaker dinners, client lunches, lots of reception with tons of orders, and then there was the airport food. And I had my first ulcer.

Dr. Gundry (05:28):

Dana Osbourne (05:29):
That should have been a wake-up call for me, but it wasn’t. I just went along and then they discovered that I had a bunch of gallstones. And then from there, I ended up having my first bout of diverticulitis. And for those of you who don’t know what that is, it’s a really bad infection in your colon, it can be very painful and they have to treat it with very intense antibiotics. The choice for me was Cipro, and Flagyl made me so sick. In fact, I went off the Flagyl a lot because it made me sicker than the diverticulitis, to be honest with you. And I lay in bed for days until the antibiotics kicked in. Do you think I thought about my diet back then?

Dr. Gundry (06:11):

Dana Osbourne (06:12):
No, no, I didn’t. My mom had diverticulitis, it kind of ran in my family. I just figured, oh, well, you know what? I just have to live with this and move on. So during this whole time I was in and out of the hospital with diverticulitis. So I must’ve been on antibiotics for five years. Cipro was so strong that if that doesn’t work what else is left? So they were saying it was very dangerous for me at that point. Then they discovered a lump on my thyroid and my doctor wanted to do a biopsy. It looked really suspicious for cancer, so they went ahead and removed the left side, and now I entered what I call, if my health wasn’t bad enough, my complete year of hell. I was tired all the time. I would sleep eight, 10 hours a day, I’d wake up feeling like I never even went to bed.

Dana Osbourne (07:07):
They were trying to get the hormone medication correct for me, they finally did. I was a single mom, I had horses, a dog, several cats, and actually a few rescue ducks, and I was just having a hard time keeping up on everything. And then the worst day of my life happened. I went to the Farmer’s Market, that part wasn’t bad, but I bought all those wonderful heirloom tomatoes. It’s summer, they’re so beautiful, and who doesn’t want to sit down to a big salad of that? Well, I did. I probably ate three tomatoes. Now, I was already a sick person, but honestly, I’m pretty sure that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. And I remember feeling really sick.

Dana Osbourne (07:48):
It was different than the diverticulitis. It was like a pounding in my stomach. And I told my son, I was going to go to bed early. I woke up at two o’clock, I was vomiting, I screamed for him to take me to the hospital, I was in so much pain. And when I got there, if there’s anything to be fortunate about, it was the ER Doc. that was on call. He happened to be a gastroenterologist. He wasn’t he supposed to be on shift that night. We had a lot of conversations about it after, but he took my hand and he said, “You’re going to be okay, your colon is perforated, you’re very, very sick and we need to give you an emergency surgery.” And then I think I passed out, and I woke up the next morning.

Dana Osbourne (08:33):
I had tubes down my nose, I was cut from sternum to sternum. They told me they also took out my gallbladder because it was infected with a lot of stones. I didn’t know if I was going to tell your audience this or not, but I think it’s important to know that I had a lot of green fluid stuff that was coming from my stomach, out of my nose. And this wasn’t just for like a couple of hours. This went on for two straight days, and it was the lowest point of my life. I thought, “What have I done? I haven’t been eating that bad, why am I so toxic?”

Dr. Gundry (09:08):
And you’re a young person, right?

Dana Osbourne (09:09):
Yeah. I’m a young person. Yes.

Dr. Gundry (09:12):
When was that? How old were you?

Dana Osbourne (09:15):
I was in my forties.

Dr. Gundry (09:16):
That’s young.

Dana Osbourne (09:18):
Forties. All this stuff had happened to me. What did I do to deserve this? Little did I know that I was killing all my good gut bugs as well as my bad, and my gut flora never had a chance to even grow back. I caught colds, I caught everything. Dana was now a sick girl, and I was so strong and healthy before, and I was thinking, “If this is going into old age, no, thank you.” I knew I had to figure something out.

Dr. Gundry (09:46):
Okay. You’re in your forties, prime of life, probably you have people are saying, “Well, this is what happens when you get old.” Right?

Dana Osbourne (09:56):
Yeah, especially in my family.

Dr. Gundry (10:00):
Okay. So what did you do?

Dana Osbourne (10:03):
Well, I started documenting all the food that I was eating. One of the things that I did love growing up on was broccoli, so I would eat raw broccoli, that wasn’t going to work for me. And then I cooked the broccoli and I would notice everything. If I cooked it really good, almost to the point where it was mushy, which I think is funny because you talk about that in your book, Brussels sprouts. My mom did a lot of really good things. She lived to be close to 90. She was 89 when she passed away, but she always had this amazing Italian dressings. As a matter of fact, I might send you a bottle because it is really good and Gundry-approved I’m sure.

Dr. Gundry (10:40):
Oh, great.

Dana Osbourne (10:42):
And so I had a lot of olive oil and I love that dressing on my… And I kind of became a vegetarian at that point, but I would slowly add foods back in and document everything. And if something like night shades, I couldn’t need it, I’d take it out. Pasta, I was gluten-intolerant, I had to take it out. I miss sourdough toast so bad. I don’t crave those foods today but what was interesting is I got to understand my own health, by really listening to my body. And I had never slowed down enough, to really take that into account. And I knew food was going to be the thing that was going to change my health.

Dr. Gundry (11:18):
And I think this is important for our listeners to understand. You actually took the time to say… So how did you know that you were gluten intolerant? Did somebody tell you? Or did you say, “Gee, every time I eat this with gluten…”

Dana Osbourne (11:38):
Well, it was kind of coming on the scene. A lot of people were talking about being gluten-intolerant. And I remembered going to my parents’ house, I’d always have pasta and then I didn’t feel good. And then eventually I was tested for it and sure enough, gluten is a lectin, even today I have to be very, very careful with the foods that I eat, I think just because I’m so sensitive to a lot of things, but yeah, I did. Mushrooms were great. I loved onions. Thank God, I could still have garlic. For a long time, I couldn’t eat raw garlic, it had to be cooked, today I can eat raw garlic. Eggs were a no-no, thank God avocados were okay. There were just a lot of foods. I loved eggplant, I couldn’t do it. The big one was spaghetti squash and everybody would make that into like a pasta and you’d have it with tomato sauce and I’d be like, “Darn, I can’t even eat that.” I would be so sick.

Dana Osbourne (12:28):
And honestly, it wasn’t until your book did so many different things change and I know we’ll get into that but some of them were kind of embarrassing, but I’m willing to share.

Dr. Gundry (12:40):
Great. So, after all this happened to you, did any of your physicians say, “Gee, maybe we ought to examine what’s in your diet that caused all this.”

Dana Osbourne (12:53):
That would have been great. And I asked them a lot. I remember [inaudible 00:12:57] go on the BRAT diet for different things. But no, actually I had one doctor that said, “Stay away from nuts and seeds.” And then I had another doctor who said, “No, you should eat seeds.” So I’m like, “What do I do?” So I actually had to go out on a journey of researching on my own. They just didn’t have I think the time to really go into that because 15 minutes and their next patient is waiting. And I was gaining so much weight, and I was so bloated and puffy and I just thought, “If they could have seen me before, they would have really realized that something was terribly, terribly wrong with me.” But they never saw me when I was in my youth and I was dancing and doing all those things.

Dana Osbourne (13:41):
I tried to exercise, and I did go to the gym a lot and I was kind of a class rat, but I remember one of my girlfriends saying to me, “Well, you go to the gym a lot and nothing ever seems to change.” That was pretty discouraging.

Dr. Gundry (13:55):
That’s what was happening to me. I was literally at the gym at 4:30 every morning for an hour, and then I’d run 30 miles a week and I was a Clydesdale runner. I was a big fat guy and it didn’t make any sense. Look, I’ve got muscles, but why are they encased in fat?

Dana Osbourne (14:17):
Exactly. I can’t get rid of the fat. What is wrong with me?

Dr. Gundry (14:21):
So, how did you come across the Plant Paradox?

Dana Osbourne (14:25):
On Facebook. And I didn’t hit the volume right away, I just read the words and then I kept getting sucked in, sucked in, and I put the volume on and then I immediately went and bought your book, and then I researched and watched a lot of different things that you had online. Of course later your podcast came about. But I like to say I was the second person that bought your book. I don’t know if that’s actually true, but I knew what I was for the first time, it was like the curtains opened up. The light went on and I knew exactly. How could I not have known all this? Part of my diet had become lectin-free just because of the research that I did on my own, but now somebody was telling me what I could eat and what I couldn’t need. And boy, that just saved me a lot of time, a lot of guesswork.

Dr. Gundry (15:14):
So was when you started adapting this, was it a gradual process or did you dive in headlong? “I’m all the way in.”

Dana Osbourne (15:27):
Yes, I dove in head first like I do with everything that I do. I read the whole book first.

Dr. Gundry (15:33):
Good idea.

Dana Osbourne (15:34):
I wanted to understand everything that was going on, and not just go right to the diet part. And I remember taking a long weekend, I think I called in sick that day, whatever, and I just went to the grocery store and I got all the different things that I liked that was on your diet that I would want to eat. And I already shopped at Whole Foods and a little bit at Trader Joe’s, so that part was easy for me, and I came home and I made several different recipes. I couldn’t believe how delicious the food was. I create my own recipes now, but seeing you on Facebook, watching all your little videos that you have over Christmas and different things you could eat, I just thought to myself, “I can do this, and I’m going to be a lot healthier forward.”

Dr. Gundry (16:17):
Very good. So what’s the first thing you noticed when you started on the program?

Dana Osbourne (16:24):
I’d have to say the inflammation, my face wasn’t as puffy. Of course I lost weight right away as well which was like, “Oh my God, finally, I’m losing weight.” I love this diet. The most embarrassing thing was my bathroom habits. There were times where I’d want to go for a hike or a long horseback ride or just out for a walk with my husband, and I was always afraid to get too far away from a bathroom. Can you imagine? The bathroom part and the bloating in my stomach I think probably took about four months to six weeks, and I felt completely different. I’ve only got off the diet one other time and I realized, “What are you doing?” And as I started traveling internationally and eating at Michelin Star restaurants, poor me.

Dr. Gundry (17:18):
Work, work, work, work.

Dana Osbourne (17:19):
Yeah, I know. I was in Japan, and I remember asking this one Michelin Star chefs, and I said, “Why don’t you guys ever use Brown rice?” And he said, “What’s Brown rice?”

Dr. Gundry (17:28):
Of course.

Dana Osbourne (17:29):
He said, “We would never eat that.” And that’s when I switched to white rice, but then when I got your program, I just cut that out completely.

Dr. Gundry (17:39):
Here you bring up a very good point. And I meet with chefs luckily all over the world as well. And you look at what they’ve learned, and four billion people use rice as their staple, but four billion people eat white rice, not Brown rice. And they do that-

Dana Osbourne (17:58):
That’s right.

Dr. Gundry (17:58):
… And they do that to get rid of the lectins and the chefs that I meet with in Italy, it’s hilarious that they all to a person say, “You would never cook a whole tomato. You peel and deseed it to make pasta sauce. Everybody knows that the peel and seeds are lethal.” And he said, “Everybody knows that.” And I was actually with a chef last fall in Tuscany and I said, “Well, how come everybody knows that?” He says, “Well, everybody knows that.” I said, ‘Well, where did you learn it from?” He says, “from my mother. My mother taught me.” Where did she learn it from? “My grandmother. Everybody knows that.”

Dana Osbourne (18:35):
Yeah, yeah. So true. I thought that was funny and I wanted to make sure I told you that because to me that was hilarious. I still have people who stop me today. I [inaudible 00:18:44] at the Farmer’s Market with my dog food and they’ll say, “Well, why don’t you have brown rice in there?” And I’m just like, “Oh dear Lord. How do I?”

Dr. Gundry (18:51):
How do I?

Dana Osbourne (18:52):
It’s hard, it’s hard.

Dr. Gundry (18:54):
Really, it’s hard. And I talk about in the book, Deepak Chopra’s representative in Japan, a wonderful young lady, had crippling rheumatoid arthritis and she was on an Ayurvedic diet with a lot of brown rice. And she had two hips replaced, she was basically bedridden. And a friend actually gave her the Plant Paradox book and said, “Look, you got nothing to lose. Why don’t you try this?” And same sort of thing she did. Came off of all our rheumatoid arthritis medicines, she started walking and got out of bed. She, a couple of years ago flew to the United States to meet, back to vigorous young woman again and all because she was eating healthy foods, and we took all those healthy foods away from her.

Dana Osbourne (19:51):
It’s true. And I did have a lot of aches and pains, and one of the things that I went off immediately was ibuprofen. I remember my doctor saying I could take up to six a day. “Yeah, you’re totally fine taking six a day, but don’t go past six.” And when I think about now, what I was doing to my system, I’m sure it would have been an interesting case study for you [inaudible 00:20:15] country. It would become like “Wow.”

Dr. Gundry (20:18):
And you had been given so many antibiotics. Has the Plant Paradox helped restore your gut balance?

Dana Osbourne (20:28):
Yeah. It really has because I didn’t even know I had a gut imbalance that was going on. My gut flora didn’t even have a chance to grow back. Two years after a big dose of antibiotics. So I needed the antibiotics because of what was going on, but had I been eating correctly, I would have never even had the diverticulitis, which by the way I haven’t had a bout of diverticulitis ever since, and my colon is perfectly healthy, my doctors are always amazed when they see me, and sometimes I just walk in and say, “Hey, I just wanted to say hello, and let you know the diet that I’m following, and you should be telling your patients that too.” I’m pretty outspoken about that Dr. Gundry, but I’m okay with that.

Dr. Gundry (21:10):
Well, good for you. We’re all out to help other people and it’s good for you.

Dana Osbourne (21:14):
Yes, definitely.

Dr. Gundry (21:16):
So what’s one piece of advice you could offer listeners getting started on the plant Paradox Program?

Dana Osbourne (21:25):
I think that’s such a great question because a lot of people might be interested in going out and buying your book, those people who don’t know of your research, and I would say, get the book, read it like I have. And then also, I have here this book, you can see all that. So this has a lot of really great, quick and easy recipes, but first I think you need to realize why you’re doing what you’re doing, because sometimes we’ll abandon a reason and we’ll just maybe start eating factory farmed animals. “Why not? It’s convenient, it’s cheaper” That kind of thing. But then you need to know why it is, you’re not eating that. And then do what I do. Or just take a highlighter, go through the yes please list, and get all the foods that you really like, take a couple of examples of what you can cook for dinner, maybe a couple of lunches, it’s very easy to take this program to lunch with you.

Dana Osbourne (22:19):
First it’s a little bit difficult, because you’re not used to cooking this way, and then it just becomes easier and you can do it. That’s all I want to tell people. You can do it, you can change your life, you can heal your gut.

Dr. Gundry (22:31):
Very good. And for those of you who are not watching this who’re listening on audio, she was holding up the Plant Paradox Quick and Easy, which is the paperback which we did because it’s quick and easy, and it really is. And there’s a 30-day meal plan on there. Okay. Now I want to switch over to your work with pets. Some pets are near and dear to your heart, in my heart and probably most of our listeners. So tell me about your dog Vegas. Was she struggling with health issues before you changed her diet, or did she change your diet?

Dana Osbourne (23:06):
Oh boy, I’ll tell you. Well, we’re here today because of my dog Vegas, and you Dr. Gundry, as you know.

Dr. Gundry (23:14):
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Dana Osbourne (23:50):
It was really interesting for me because I ended up spending more time thinking about her diet than my own, and it got me thinking, “Why am I not spending time on what it is that I’m eating?” It was our lucky day when we went to the Animal Shelter here in Napa, my son and I, and we brought home this cute little puppy, and she was really the love of our lives. We also had cats, I love cats just as much, and I put down kibble for her and canned food and she didn’t want anything to do with it. I thought she was just nervous, this was her first time in our house, that kind of thing. But then I ended up going to the store and buying 20 different types of kibble and canned food.

Dana Osbourne (24:28):
She would take a little bite of it, then go lay down, look up at me and say, “You expect me to eat that?” And I was thinking, “Yes, can you just please eat some food?” I remember my mom telling me when he put some chicken bullion on in there and then throw some chicken pieces on top and maybe that will get her interested in her kibble. Well, it did it worked, but guess what? She only dug out the chicken pieces and left the kibble. And that was like an aha moment for me. I was tired of buying all the different conventional foods, and I just decided that whatever I was cooking for my son and myself, I would just make food for Vegas. But keep in mind, I was experimenting with different foods, and so she was eating things like broccoli and chicken and hamburgers, that kind of thing without [inaudible 00:25:13] obviously.

Dana Osbourne (25:14):
And I did check with my veterinarian nutritionist, just to make sure that I wasn’t leaving out any vitamins and minerals. And fortunately I wasn’t, it was real food, and that’s why my tag name is Real Food for Real Dogs. And so Vegas started thriving. She really was doing so well. I remember going to the dog park, which I do with my dog all the time, and people would say, “Oh my God, your dog is so energetic. Look at her coat. It’s gorgeous. What’s just shampoo that you’re using?” And I was like, “I don’t actually shampoo my dog at all. Maybe I should, but her coat is beautiful because of all the olive oil and coconut oil that I’m putting in her food.”

Dana Osbourne (25:56):
And somebody said, “Oh, you’re spending so much money on her. You’re just wasting it on your dog, you’re spoiling her.” But the best was, “Just leave that kibble out. She’ll get hungry enough to eat it.” And I was thinking to myself, “Why would I ever do that to my dog?” And from there on out, this was something I was not going to be persuaded from making a dog food for her.

Dr. Gundry (26:21):
Yeah. Well that’s so-

Dana Osbourne (26:22):

Dr. Gundry (26:23):
… that became, literally your lifelong passion for her.

Dana Osbourne (26:28):
It did actually, yes. It’s funny because sometimes I take out a bunch of chicken or steak. I spoiled her? Yes I did. And she lived to be almost 15 years old without-

Dr. Gundry (26:41):
That’s a good one.

Dana Osbourne (26:41):
… any arthritis or health issues, yes. But my son would come home from school and be like, “Oh, I’m going to grab a piece of that steak.” And I’d be like, “No you don’t, that’s the dog’s food, we’ve just [inaudible 00:26:53].” So he always laughs at me about that. And he ate pretty well too, and I promise you.

Dr. Gundry (26:58):
Yeah. We recently had to put our super old rescue dog down, George. We inherited George from a woman who died of cancer and had no place for this dog to go. And he was a very old dog when we inherited him. Cataracts, he really couldn’t get around and we changed his diet and he started running with our pack. We think he was 19 when we put him down. Actually just a few weeks ago, but he had a second lease on life. We really thought we were going to caretake him for maybe a few months and literally he lasted five years with us and surprised us. I shouldn’t have been surprised?

Dana Osbourne (27:54):

Dr. Gundry (27:55):
Actually, you’ll like this story. Our oldest dog is Pearl, who’s a huge female labradoodle, 85 pounds. And she had a litter mate by the name of Gary who some of our good friends bought, and Gary and Pearl used to play constantly, and they chased each other around. As time went on about… So Pearl’s now 13. At about 10 years of age, Gary could no longer chase Pearl. He hobbled up steps. Now Gary, he’s really hard to walk. He’s pretty much at the end of his life at age 13. We have a puppy labradoodle that now Pearl at age 13 chases around as if she was a puppy, and it’s striking to see Pearl’s litter mate is pretty much at the end of life and moribund, and Pearl now 13 is chasing the puppy around as if she’s a puppy.

Dana Osbourne (29:05):

Dr. Gundry (29:05):
So, it really does talk to the power of food.

Dana Osbourne (29:10):
You can be sick like me and heal yourself. Dogs, I’ll give you an example in a moment about my cat and how we transferred his life, but the human body and the body of a cat or a dog is so remarkable. If you just give it a chance, it can heal. And it needs to heal with the inside out. And we’re just becoming a lot more aware of what it is that we’re feeding our animals. I don’t think these people who work for these dog food companies that are producing Kibble and canned food are bad people, I just don’t think that they understand what’s really happening when their animals eat that food.

Dana Osbourne (29:47):
But it is amazing. Don’t give up on your animal, if you’ve got an animal that is lethargic, has less energy than you would like to see, or is getting arthritis, you can still turn that around 100%.

Dr. Gundry (29:59):
Yeah. Absolutely. So you’re currently working on getting your very own lectin-free dog food company up and running Napa Dog. Did the inspiration for this come from Vegas, or where did it come from?

Dana Osbourne (30:13):
Yes. Absolutely. I used to look at other dogs, because she would run circles around other dogs all the time. And these are dogs that she grew up with, and I live on the Napa River Trail as well, and my husband and I take walks all the time. As a matter of fact, he walks out pets often, but that’s another story for another time, and I would stop somebody and say, “Oh look, can I pet your dog? Oh, it’s an old guy.” And they’re like, “No, actually he’s just six years old.” And I started realizing, wow. That is really unfortunate. And I really look at every dog that I see, many of them are limping, many of them are overweight.

Dana Osbourne (30:50):
The obesity between cats and dogs in our country is huge. It was that, it was feeding dogs food, but it was all I could think about. Literally, it became my passion. I had a great job, but I would be overseas in spectacular events, and I’m sitting in the back thinking about dog foods. I knew I had to come home, I quit my job and started making dog food.

Dr. Gundry (31:15):
What are some of the biggest issues with commercial dog foods? What’s wrong with them?

Dana Osbourne (31:21):
Well, let’s just pick out kibble for instance. We all know it’s highly processed and it’s also very high in carbohydrates. A dog is an omnivore, but he’s mostly a carnivores. So really having too many carbohydrates isn’t good. If you think about a dog in the wild, which was a wolf many, many thousands of years ago, they would kill their prey and then eat what’s in the stomach. So they would have some of the berries in there, grasses and then they would eat the organ meats, and then they go for the meat. So we really have to look at that as something that would be an appropriate thing to feed a dog, species appropriate. Now today, and after World War II, when we needed convenience and we couldn’t use cans for canned food, that came back later because they needed all of the tin for the war.

Dana Osbourne (32:08):
It’s been a long time since World War II and kibble was just stuck around, and I’m really surprised it has, because I think that we know better by now. So I’ll give you a little story about kibble. First you’re going to have grocery store kibble and then you’ll have high-end kibble, and then all the kibble in between.

Dana Osbourne (32:26):
So we’ll call the grocery store kibble A, They’re going to use things like rendered protein meat. Use your imagination on that one. They’re going to have meat byproducts, meat meal. Some of these are brought in from other countries, not just the United States and some could be brought in from China, and there’s been a lot of recalls with that. Then you have your upper-end kibble, call that kibble B. Now they’re going to be grain-free, but first they’re going to start with a protein too. So they’ll use factory farmed animals, and again, it may not be sourced from the United States. Unless it actually says on the bag, sourced from the United States and made in the United States, it’s not. And you can believe them on that, because what they don’t put in is just as important as what they do put in, on the bag.

Dana Osbourne (33:10):
And then they’re going to be adding things like, on the lower end, like ground corn, ground gluten, ground wheat, soybean flour. Does that sound good Dr. Gundry?

Dr. Gundry (33:19):

Dana Osbourne (33:21):
And then on the higher end, they’re going to be adding things like pea protein, potato starch, garbanzo bean flour. Were trying to make a dough here, because we need to make a dough, so we can make a kibble. Now don’t forget about all those delicious fruits and vegetables.

Dana Osbourne (33:37):
You see them on the bag, they’re gorgeous. Look at the cranberries and the blueberries. Not so fast. Those are all powdered, many of them are lectin loaded vegetables, but it’s in a powder form, sometimes bought from third parties, so really what’s in it? We don’t know. They put that in, but before they put it through the excluder, they’re going to add a synthetic vitamins and minerals to shore up the foods. It’s not ever going to be inappropriate food, but at least we’re not going to be killing our animals, it’s a slow death, don’t get me wrong, but at least the vitamins and minerals are there. Then they add natural coloring, which it can be a dye on side a, which can be very, very dangerous and unhealthy for your pet. And then on the other side, they might use like beet juice to make that piece of kibble look like a yummy piece of meat.

Dana Osbourne (34:24):
I remember getting some kibble [inaudible 00:34:26] my friend was putting it up for her cat and one of it was green and she goes, doesn’t that look like a beautiful pea? And I’m thinking to myself, “That is not a pea, trust me. It’s just green dye. Come on, we’re smarter than that.” So now we have a dough and that we’re going to take that dough, we’re going to put it through an excluder, which is going to make it very, very hot, so we can cook all the good stuff that could possibly left in that food, and of course all the bad. And then it’s going to be pushed out into a little shape that you know is kibble. But before it goes in the bag, they’re going to spray it with some really weird animal fat and natural flavors.

Dana Osbourne (35:03):
And so your dog and cat will be like, “Hmm, that doesn’t smell too bad, perhaps we’ll take a bite of it.” It’s not good for your animals. I don’t care. Look at it. Does it look like real food? And I think we all can agree that we should be feeding our animals, just whole fresh foods.

Dr. Gundry (35:21):
Yep. So how do the ingredients in your Napa Dog compare to traditional kibble?

Dana Osbourne (35:29):
Well, I based everything off of your book.

Dr. Gundry (35:31):
Oh my God.

Dana Osbourne (35:34):
I wanted to make a lectin-free meal for animals. Now, I have two skews, I have a chicken and cauliflower rice, and beef and vegetable harvest. And I wanted to let you know that it’s really important to me that I don’t use factory farmed animals. I think if we actually knew what was injected to these animals, the hormones, antibiotics, but also their horrible living conditions. Mahatma Gandhi had a saying, “The greatest of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” And I think that as humans, we’re better than that. We need to be better than that, we need to really take a look at what we’re doing to these animals that we’re eating, that we’re feeding our cats and dogs because we’re eating what they ate.

Dana Osbourne (36:22):
And there’s a lot of really bad stuff, it’s not a good life for these animals. And so I only use meat that I get from certified Humane Farms and also G.A.P. rated farms, Global Animal Protection, and yes, I do have a grass-fed grass-finished meat, beef in my vegetable harvest, and I use things like spinach and carrots and turmeric, I use cod liver oil, coconut oil, sea salt with a little bit of iodine in it because dogs need that too, and so do cats. And it’s been really great food.

Dr. Gundry (36:59):
So it sounds like… And you sent some, I can’t wait to give the dogs, but I could actually eat it. Right?

Dana Osbourne (37:09):
Yes, actually you can. And my husband and I, when we’re in our commercial kitchen, our cooks are always laughing at us because we try every single batch before it goes out, because I can taste and tell whether the mixer’s really right and we weigh and measure everything, but you can eat it, and oftentimes we’ll have it for lunch [crosstalk 00:37:29]

Dr. Gundry (37:28):
Now, you’ve got a new passion, and that is a dog cookie. Speaking of eating it, and you mentioned in the letter you sent that you actually sample the batch. There’s all these dogs stores everywhere, and they bake natural cookies for dogs. And to me, no offense, these things are poisonous to dogs, just as they are poisonous to humans, so I was really excited because we all want to give our dogs cookies. Dog wants a cookie.

Dana Osbourne (38:04):

Dr. Gundry (38:05):
So tell me about the cookie.

Dana Osbourne (38:07):
Well, it was sort of a pivotal thing for me during COVID, and also a lot of my clients want to give their dog a treat. So they said, “Can you come up with a healthy treat?” And I was really surprised when I started looking into making a dog cookie. First off, I wasn’t interested in having some high carbohydrate diet for a dog. This is a treat people don’t do more than two or three. But I also wanted something that didn’t have sugar in it. I couldn’t believe how much sugar we’re giving our dogs buy treats. Molasses, sugar. So I would just say, white sugar. Processed white sugar. And so I came up with a cassava flour, a coconut carrot, cookie, and it’s actually gluten-free and vegan. And my husband thinks it pairs really well with the nice Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon, but it’s really for your dogs, so please save that for them. It’s a fun cookie, it’s a fun treat, and you can feel good to give it to them.

Dr. Gundry (39:05):
Well, good for you. We need more people thinking about the stuff we bake for our dogs ought to be as good as what we do for us. And I want to add a disclaimer, since we’re talking about this based on the Plant Paradox. Animals in general and dogs and cats specifically, do have different nutritional requirements than we do, particularly cats.

Dana Osbourne (39:30):
Oh, yeah.

Dr. Gundry (39:31):
So this means that some of the foods that may be amazing to our health, and are on my yes list, like extra dark chocolate, or garlic, maybe really dumb to give to our dogs and, or cats.

Dana Osbourne (39:47):

Dr. Gundry (39:48):
So I think you’re saying, and I’m saying that the lectin-free part of the Plant Paradox program is absolutely perfect for dogs, but that doesn’t mean that everything on the yes list ought to be fed to our dogs or cats. Right?

Dana Osbourne (40:05):
Actually we need to be really careful. There’s some really poisonous items that are on your yes list for dogs or cats. And that is like dark chocolate onions, garlic, any kind of sweeteners, xylitol, those types of things. And anybody can DME, they can actually find a list online, but please make sure that you know exactly what those things are. They’re very easily found just by Googling it. So, be very careful not to give those things to your dog. For instance, if you’re cooking some kind of protein and you want to put onions in there, please don’t share that meat with your dogs because onions are very, very poisonous to your dog. So be careful and all your readers and listeners are very, very smart, savvy people. So don’t worry about that.

Dr. Gundry (40:53):
Speaking of listeners, I know you have cats. I used to have cats and I love cats as well. What about cats in a lectin-free diet?

Dana Osbourne (41:05):
Absolutely. Well, first off we then need to really realize that cats are carnivores. Those cute little fluffy things, and I have three of them, so I would know they’re hunters. They’re meat eaters, and they really don’t need any carbohydrates at all. And I know a lot of people are going to be shocked to hear that, but they just don’t. They thrive really, really well. They haven’t changed over the years. Dogs, they can tolerate a little bit of carbohydrates, but cats, you know what? They can’t. And I found out because I was feeding my cat, Louie kibble, this was many, many years ago, and I remember bringing him to the vet and he said, “Look, your cat is obese, and if he doesn’t lose weight, you’re going to have to start giving him injections, because he’s on the road of diabetes.”

Dana Osbourne (41:51):
Of course I turned all that around and now we feed our cats raw diet, but I couldn’t imagine doing that. He was pushing 20 pounds. He’s maybe 12 pounds now, he looks like a kitten running around. We need to feed animals the appropriate diet that they were meant to eat, and stop believing all the other resources that are coming in… Eventually I think kibble is going to go away because we’re going to realize, and as consumers we’re going to stop buying it, and then they’re going to start making something different for us. It was the same way with organic groceries. Remember you want to go buy something [inaudible 00:42:28] thought about buying it organic. And you would see a dimly lit part of the grocery store with maybe a hippie there, buying some little, little apple and you’re like, “Ooh, why would I ever buy that? I’m going to buy these beautiful, gorgeous apples over here that are huge and shiny.” Well, we’ve come a long way.

Dana Osbourne (42:43):
So you can go into any grocery store and you’re going to find organic, and you already have seen a lot of fresh ingredients for dogs and cats coming out. But buyer beware because even with some of the raw diets, there’s a lot of carbohydrates in there. They’re loaded with lectins, they are loaded with really bad oils, and if you read the book, you’ll know what those are.

Dana Osbourne (43:09):
Definitely a raw diet is best, some animals like food’s cooked a little bit, that’s okay, too. And again, there’s just a lot of choices out there, and I’m happy to help anybody navigate that. Hopefully someday if I get funding, I’ll be able to really scale and grow and have capital too.

Dr. Gundry (43:26):
And I think we should make people aware that this is a business you are starting, and you would love to get some inflow of funds and investment in your business. So anybody who’s listening to this, what a great cause, and I think the dogs and cats of the world will demand this, and good for you for doing this.

Dana Osbourne (43:53):
Thank you Dr. Gundry.

Dr. Gundry (43:55):
How do people find you?

Dana Osbourne (43:57):
Well, they can go to my website, which has a lot of great information at www.napadog.com.

Dr. Gundry (44:04):
That’s easy.

Dana Osbourne (44:05):
And I’m on Instagram at napa.dog. Somebody already owned Napa Dog, and I’m trying to get them to give it to me, but until then I’m at napa.dog, and also on LinkedIn at Napa Dog.

Dr. Gundry (44:16):
Okay. That’s very easy. As you know, at the end of my podcast, I take audience questions, but this time we’re going to turn it around and you’re going to have questions for me. I understand. All right.

Dana Osbourne (44:32):
I’m so excited.

Dr. Gundry (44:33):

Dana Osbourne (44:34):
All right. The first one, you’re ready?

Dr. Gundry (44:35):

Dana Osbourne (44:36):
Okay. All I want to know is, would you say you stay in ketosis most of the time?

Dr. Gundry (44:44):
Gee, I hope not. And I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes that people make. There’s absolutely no evidence that our ancestors were continuously in ketosis. As I joke in the Energy Paradox, do you really think that when we killed that buffalo that we said, “Oh, I’m only going to have four ounces of that buffalo, because if I have any more of that, I’ll break my ketosis.” Or if we hit that hive of honey, we’d say, “Oh, I really only should have a teaspoon because I’ll break ketosis.” Or the worst thing is if that apple tree we stumbled upon, “Oh, I’m only going to have a bite of apple because it’ll break my ketosis.” Well, of course not.

Dr. Gundry (45:43):
As people will learn in the Energy Paradox, normally if we’re doing everything right, we should be cycling in and out of ketosis actually every 24 hours. And then there would be times when in the past, we wouldn’t find much to eat for days at a time. And one of the reasons humans have taken over the planet like locusts, is we have the ability to go extended periods of time without eating and be in ketosis.

Dr. Gundry (46:15):
But that doesn’t mean that that is the nutritional state that we should always be in. And you’ll see that in the upcoming Energy Paradox. So, no, you should not always be in ketosis.

Dana Osbourne (46:31):
Well, thank you for answering that question, which actually leads me into my next question to you, which feels so weird that I get to ask you questions, but I am dying for your new book to come out. I can not wait for the Energy Paradox. Can you tell us one little sneak tip that we can take home today?

Dr. Gundry (46:50):
The Energy Paradox really is, we are overfed and underpowered. And the reason we’re underpowered, surprisingly, it is because we are constantly eating paradoxically energy-rich foods. And we have overwhelmed the ability of our energy producing organelles, the mitochondria to actually efficiently produce energy with the incoming mass of traffic going into our mitochondria 16 hours a day. And work by Dr. [Satchin 00:47:37] Panda out of SOC Institute in San Diego has shown that the average American is eating 16 hours a day on average. And people shake their heads and say, “No, there’s no way.” But in fact, this is human research using apps on phones. And the average person is having some form of food during a 16-hour time period every day.

Dana Osbourne (48:05):
Overwhelming for your digestive track, I can assure you.

Dr. Gundry (48:08):
Exactly and it overwhelms our mitochondria. So there’s a little tip for the Energy Paradox.

Dana Osbourne (48:12):
Yay. Thank you. One last question for you Dr. Gundry, what is your favorite recipe? And can I just add a little caveat onto that? Do you drink a red wine and does that get in the way of you fitting everything in with your diet and in all of [inaudible 00:48:34]

Dr. Gundry (48:35):
I literally try to force myself to have a glass of red wine every day, and I’ve gone into a book why I do that. The caveat is if you don’t drink, don’t start, and the other caveat is, if one glass of red wine is good for you, that doesn’t mean two bottles of red wine is better for you. In fact-

Dana Osbourne (49:03):
I understand that.

Dr. Gundry (49:04):
… I know you’re in the Napa Valley and we have to promote red wine, which I’m happy to do, but it follows a hormetic curve that I talk about in the book where in general hormesis says, “That which doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger.” But all hormetic foods like red wine, follow a curve. None is not so good, some is good, but more is really not so good.

Dr. Gundry (49:33):
And I talk a lot about this in the Energy Paradox. We call it the Goldilocks effect. Just right and we want to hit [crosstalk 00:49:41]. I have so many favorite recipes, but I think the one that I like probably the best is Egg Roll in a Bowl, because it’s number one incredibly easy to make, no matter how busy you are, you can put it together. It really delivers a lot of Gut Buddy supporting material, and it tastes good. And you can find it on YouTube on my videos. So I like Egg Roll in a Bowl. That was one of the most fun ones I think we ever did. All right. So it’s been great fun to have you, and congratulations on turning your health and your dogs and cats lives around, and really, if folks are listening in or watching, Napa Dog, let’s get some investors piling in there and let’s blow her up. Okay?

Dana Osbourne (50:39):
Love it. Thank you so much, Dr. Gundry, I so appreciate it.

Dr. Gundry (50:42):
Well, thanks for coming on the program and keep up the good work. And I’m going to go home and have some of your dog food myself. I’m not going to share with my dogs. All right, take care.

Dana Osbourne (50:57):
Bye. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Dr. Gundry (50:58):
It’s time for the review of the week.

Kimberly Snyder (51:04):
Welcome to the Feel Good Podcast with Kimberly Snyder. My goal is to help you develop a holistic lifestyle, based on our four cornerstone philosophy, food body, emotional wellbeing, and spiritual growth. This holistic approach will help you feel good, which I define as being connected to your most authentic, highest self. And this is the place from which your energy, confidence, creativity, true power and true beauty will start to explode. Every week, we provide you with interviews from top experts in their field, or a solo cast from yours truly to support you in living your most beautiful, healthy, and joyful life. I’m your host, Kimberly Snyder, founder of Solluna, New York Times bestselling author and holistic wellness, nutrition and meditation teacher. Let’s get started.

Dr. Gundry (51:57):
[Courtney Chapatel 00:51:57] from YouTube, watched the interview on Breath with James Nestor and said, thank you, Dr. Gundry. As a decades long suffer of recurrent sinusitis, I have found this podcast, as I find all of your podcasts, absolutely fascinating. I truly appreciate that you focus on the oral microbiome as well as the gut microbiome and overall health. Keep the great interviews coming! Courtney, thanks so much for your kind words. It’s reviews like this that help us reach a bigger audience and support our mission to transform the lives of people all over the globe.

Dr. Gundry (52:39):
And I really particularly enjoyed that interview, and I’ve just recently sent James Nestor a review of his book that hopefully will be posted on the upcoming release of that book. I really think it’s a really… It’s important at least to me, that we welcome all aspects of improving our body and our health. And there’s areas that obviously I’m interested in nutrition, but that doesn’t mean we should neglect the other key essential part of nutrition, and that is the air we breathe and the way we breathe that air. So I’m glad that it hit a note with you, and I hope other people will listen to that one as well. So that’s it for today’s episode, and we’ll see you next week because I’m Dr. Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you.

Dr. Gundry (53:36):
Disclaimer. On the Dr. Gundry Podcast, we provide a venue for discussion, and the views expressed by my guests, do not necessarily reflect my own. Thanks for joining me on this episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Before you go, I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to watch each episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast, you can always find me on YouTube at youtube.com/drgundry, because I’m Dr. Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you.