Speaker 1 0:00
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast, the weekly podcast where Dr. G gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life.
Dr Gundry 0:13
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. All right, would you rather watch TV or workout? Come on? Really? How about grab some fast food or cook and clean it up yourself or snooze your alarm instead of jump out of bed? Well, the truth is, we’re all inclined to taking the easy way out because our bodies are actually programmed to be incredibly lazy. But I have good news. According to my guest today, the key to achieving optimum wellness isn’t about doing more, it’s about doing less. And with the right knowledge and tools you can actually achieve lasting health in less time with minimal effort. Now I’m welcoming back my friend Dave Asprey, aka the father of biohacking serial entrepreneur and best selling author. After a quick break, we’re going to unpack his brand new book smarter, not harder, and why he says it’s his best contribution to the biohacking community yet, wow, that’s pretty impressive. Whether you’re looking to lose weight, sharpen your mind or completely transform your health, the techniques we’re about to reveal can help you carve less hours out of your workout, skip the IPE and exceed the results you’re looking for. So don’t go away this episode everyone will benefit from we’ll be right back. The Dr. Gundry podcast is brought to you by progressive. Most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, while you’re listening to me talk you’re also probably driving, cleaning, exercising or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you’re not in some kind of moving vehicle, there’s something else you can be doing right now. Getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance. It’s easy, and you can save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who say by switching to progressive save nearly $700 On average, and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts, discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy being a homeowner and more. So just like your favorite podcast progressive will be with you 24/7 365 days a year so that you’re protected no matter what. Multitask right now, quote your car insurance and progressive.com to join the over 29 million drivers who trust progressive progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates national average 12 months savings of $698 by new customer survey who saved with progressive between June 2021 and may 2022. potential savings will vary discounts not available in all states and situations. Dave, it’s so great to have you back on the show. This time from my Beverly Hills office.
Speaker 3 3:12
I finally got to see it. That’s right. Welcome. Welcome. All right.
Dr Gundry 3:16
So for listeners who aren’t familiar with you, there might be three of you listening. Tell me how you went from a computer bio hacker to hacking the human body or what you call Are you ready for this? Meet? Oh s.
Speaker 3 3:33
All right. I was a genuine 300 pound computer hacker had kind of like the guy in Jurassic Park, the first high in pizza jolt cola. But I knew that I needed to lose the weight. So I decided to go to the gym. Because I learned working hard gets results. And I knew I could do that. So 90 minutes a day, six days a week halfway. It’s half cardio for 18 months. So you think after that I was you know a while of muscle. I still had a 46 inch waist I still weighed 300 pounds, but I can max out all the two of them chin. So I thought to myself, clearly even though I’ve been on a low calorie, low fat semi vegetarian diet. It’s because I’m eating too much lettuce. It’s a moral failing is from not trying hard enough. It wasn’t working hard enough because a hard work gets results. But if you think about it, how many people do you know who’ve worked hard their whole life and don’t get results? It turns out it’s a lot of people. So maybe we’ve been programmed to believe that if we work hard we get results. That style. The way it really works is when you have the right tools and knowledge a small amount of work and get some great results. But we miss all of this because our bodies what I called the meat operating system you know you and I are made out of meat. So if our operating system is trying to make us lazy and our brain is trying to make us exercise As we feel guilty about the fact that we have a body that does what it’s supposed to do, we end up having guilt and shame that holds us back from getting results. So once I released myself from this idea that oh, I have to work hard, I just have to do the right things. And I built $100 million company in five New York Times bestsellers and hundreds of millions of podcast downloads. But it wasn’t because I worked hard. It was because I got the right people, I got the right tools. And the same thing for my health. I’m 8.1% body fat right now just measured it at at upgrade labs. And I’m never hungry. And I actually got to lean doing the stuff and smarter not harder. But it did take me 20 minutes a week of exercise. I just didn’t have to sweat though. It kind of felt like I wasted some time there. But it was,
Dr Gundry 5:43
well, you know, your story is remarkably like mine. You know, I was a world famous heart surgeon but I was obese. So I topped off at 228,000 within like you but big boy. And yet I was running 30 miles a week I was going to the gym one hour every day. I was new and five gay 10 Guys, half marathons on the weekends, and I was owning a low fat vegetarian diet because that’s what you know, art surgeons do. And I kept gaining
Speaker 3 6:14
more weight. It makes me so angry. Like, what else can I do? Right? I think a lot of people listening have done the same thing. Like I did what they told me I didn’t get results. It must be me. No, you have the wrong advice is the problem. Yeah, I
Dr Gundry 6:27
am. You know, I talked with my colleagues in cardiology and all nice up. You can’t fight your genes. You inherited this from your father, you poor guy, and you know, you’re have some statins, you’re pre diabetic, you know, let’s get you on Metformin, etc. And you’re hypertensive. Let’s get you on high blood pressure medicines. And you got arthritis, let’s make sure you’re taking your Celebrex and Slike. They’re going here. You can’t you can’t fix this. And then of course, I met Big Head, who changed my life and you figured out that you’re doing it all wrong. Why do you think this is so persuasive or evasive in our society, that this is somehow our fault, that if we only work harder, exercise more, eat less that this is all our fault? Here’s why.
Speaker 3 7:25
It’s because the idea that we want to save energy in our bodies, it’s been so present for all life forms on Earth, that humans with our smart brains very slow, but very smart compared to how fast our bodies are. We realized that that was holding us back. So we teach ourselves and we have for years, even the Puritans who founded America, were really into this stuff. So we shame children for being lazy. Instead of saying, you know, it’s healthy and normal that you don’t want to do that. The reason you’re going to choose to do it anyway, is this instead, how dare you feel that so you get it from your coaches, you get it from your church, you get it from your parents, you get it from your teachers, you get it from your bosses, when you’re working at a fast food joint or whatever. Don’t be lazy. So lazy equals Shame, shame equals you will be removed from society and the Tigers will you know, we know that’s not true. But your body is dumb. And it actually feels that shame hurts. So the idea is I’m not working hard enough. That’s right up there with I am not enough in terms of what people really worry about when they’re going to sleep at night. It’s just, it’s it’s being unkind to ourselves, when you realize that the reason we have technology, the reason we have cars is because we’re lazy. Someone didn’t want to walk. So he’s a ride a horse, and he’s I don’t want to shovel the poop, I’ll build a car, and I don’t want to drive or get an airplane. And then that’s not enough, let’s go to Mars. This is from laziness, it’s, it’s a good thing. So when I’m working with my teenagers or something, it’s totally, totally okay that you don’t want to do it, do it anyway. Right. But that’s not a shame thing. But we just have so much of this, like, we almost don’t want to look at it. And what the meat operating system does in the body is for about a third of a second, before your brain gets any signal of reality. It’s messing with what you can see. And there’s a neuroscience measure you probably came across called P 300. D. And this is a measure that gets longer as you age, but it’s when I do this. clap my hands. Well, you and I see it right away. Maybe there’s a speed of sound going your ears. No, there’s a speed of sound go two years, then there’s a third of a second, and then your brain get the first signal there was a sound and then you think about it. Your body takes that third of a second to decide if the sound was worth showing you. It’s doing that all the time in the world around you. And it also influences what you see. It’s the one that makes the couch look so sexy, and the gym looks so just gnarly and unattractive. And then instead of going in laughing Add the fact that our bodies do that. We go into this loop of oh my gosh, something’s wrong with me because I didn’t want to do the hard thing. No, you didn’t. So don’t do the hard thing. Do the smarter, not harder thing. And the way you motivate yourself is just recognize, since my body loves being lazy, let’s do it marketing companies do to us. I have a family member, maybe it goes to the mall and comes back with a purse or a pair of shoes and says, Look, I saved $250 on these or whatever it was, yeah. Okay. How many times do you hear I spent $40 on it. Never Never. It’s because of the savings of energy feels much bigger than it is. And we know, this is why you get a coupon. And you’ll go do all these crazy things for good ones that aren’t worth very much, because they feel big. So the way you motivate yourself, is you pick one of the hacks from smarter, not harder, that aligns with your top goal. And then instead of telling yourself, I’m going to do this hard thing, you say, I’m gonna go save 45 minutes on cardio, and then your meat operating system says I’m going to save Yes. And you feed your laziness as a carrot to motivate you, and it’s so much less work that way. And all of a sudden, getting your cardio is a lot like brushing your teeth, and you don’t have to sweat anyway, because you have the right tools. And you have the right motivation.
Dr Gundry 11:14
How do you go about breaking this cycle that’s been put in our heads or we put it in our heads? Actually, let me bring up a great example way back when when the the jogging craze came out. They interviewed the Kalahari Bushmen, who are now called the icon, great, long distance walkers. And they said, Hey, what do you think about running 26.2 miles? And they go, Oh, why would anybody do that? You wouldn’t chase an animal that long, because it wouldn’t be worth it. And an animal wouldn’t chase you that far, because he would have caught you and killed you long before that. And you’re you’re right, our you know, our biologic design is exactly the opposite of what we’ve been convinced. Yeah. And I always point to my dogs. Yeah, my dogs want to go for a two to three, you know, mile walk, run whatever, Skip, but they spend the rest of the day sleeping. And you look at lions, they basically sleep except when they need to catch something. And yet that programming somehow hasn’t worked for us, or, at least in our teach.
Speaker 3 12:34
It hasn’t, especially in the West, we don’t take a siesta here. And it’s because I think the industrial companies when we were starting that eight hour work day, five days a week, when we were putting kids in school, so that they would be good factory workers. Laziness was bad for profits. And so it just got built into the way, the way we think of it as like that is so shameful, how dare you recover. But what the research shows in smarter not harder, is that if you really want to transform, you listen to the Bushmen, because what they’re talking about, there’s what the body sees. So given that your body doesn’t have a brain, your body makes a decision a third of a second before your brain does. So it has its own distributed intelligence, but it’s very fast and very dumb. So it’s trying to figure out from vibration, heat stress levels, how much you’re breathing, what’s going on in the world around me, it’s like this cloud of bacteria embedded in your cells, trying to figure out what the petri dish is doing. So if you were to attend, I’ll take the example of cardio that I talked about, in smarter not harder. If you were to, say, be hunted by a lion, just like they were talking about, you’d sprint like crazy, and you’d burn everything out as fast as you could. And if you get away, then you take a deep breath, go, wow, that sucks. But I’m okay. Like, I think I’ll eat a liver or whatever you would do. Right? What we do in a cardio class, all based on that 1970s Born to Run guy is we say, well, working hard is going to get results. So I’m going to go for a 45 minute class and there’s going to be someone in spandex sweating all over in the front playing annoying music and yelling at me. And then I will use shame because if everyone sees that I’m not standing up on the pedals, when they are then I’ll feel weak. So I’ll use shame to motivate me. And then you sweat and you push and you do it and I’m a good person five days a week. And there’s three studies now showing that if you do that, five days or less five hours plus showers and washing spandex and whatever else you’re into, wow, you should improve a lot. You’ll get a 2% improvement after two months of doing that. If you do what I’m talking about, you’ll do five minutes three times a week. You will not sweat and enslavement hard from us that five minutes 12% improvement six times better results from being lazy and having the right signal than just working hard. So like you know you were you were doing excessive amounts of cardio. I was doing it to be cuz we were told it worked. And we were told if we didn’t do it, we were lazy. And I am lazy 100%. I’m lazy because I wanted to get results in less time. And that’s okay, that seems appropriate choice to do. And that’s just one of the chapters of the cardio chapter in the book.
Dr Gundry 15:16
Right? All right. So, cardio is is holding us back, actually, let me bring up another example, I’ve got a good friend, he and his partner moved to Portugal couple years ago. And long story short, he just works out like a maniac. Mostly mostly cardio, but a lot of weights. And this guy wrote me, actually texted me a couple of weeks ago. And he says, you know, I’m so fed by, you know, look at my muscles, you’ve seen me, but I am exhausted, I am so tired. And he says, I can’t get past being tired. And I said, Okay, let’s review what you’re up to. Well, of course, he does this every day, and he never takes a break. And I go, now that I know this, this is really easy to fix, you know, stop that.
Unknown Speaker 16:15
Stop punching yourself in the face. Yeah.
Dr Gundry 16:17
So you know, what is that what I mean? We absolutely have to have recovery. Very, right?
Speaker 3 16:24
We do. In fact, what the data shows is that if you rapidly bring a stress on like that, lion hunting you but and then you rapidly return to baseline. And this is a new principle that I’m proposing in the book, I call it slope of the curve biology, it’s not the amount of work we do, it’s how fast we turn it on, and how fast we turn it off. And this is based on work, we’re doing it upgrade labs, and it’s a franchise now opening across the country’s CEO of biohacking with artificial intelligence driven workouts so that you don’t have to work very hard. But it’s when you return to baseline and you have adequate nutrients. I mean, your gut has to be healthy. I mean, definitely eating the right stuff. The body says, well, there’s no famine, the threat is gone. But there might be another one, let me just upgrade. And it’s very simple. But if instead you say, well, the tiger didn’t catch me, but now the lady in the spin classes on me. So now I gotta run it 50% Now I’m gonna do another hill. And you just send yourself a signal I’m being hunted, and your friend is getting I’m being hunted every day. And the the part of me that admires grit, and toughness and our ability to overcome our inherent believed limit limitations. I respect that. And showing yourself you can do it is one thing, doing it every day, because you believe it’s going to work. That’s not healthy. And I see so many people in this kind of shape where they’re exhausted like I was when I did it, and probably like you were too. And he realized that working out with that level of intensity a couple times a week, and then sleeping or meditating with the same level of of intensity, the other days that will get you better results, it makes people mad to hear that. But that’s what the data shows. And that’s what you show you’re at a healthy weight, that’s what I show. And the amount of work to do, it is so much less like It’s very freeing. To have this, I just go back to, if I had an hour, I was going to work out. And now I did my cardio in five minutes. And then I did my muscles in 10 minutes or less. And you can do this with AI driven feedback, or there’s a bunch of technologies that work better than our main technology picking up rocks. And we’ve gotten very far as humans because we concentrate the rocks in the middle plate. So we pick those up, they work better because they’re heavier rocks. But maybe there’s another way to get a signal to the body to grow muscle. And in the book I go through, here’s all the things that grow muscle faster than picking up rocks, you can still pick up rocks, in fact, you’ll do a better job of picking them up. And I talked about things like blood flow restriction, electrical stimulation, or even just resistance bands. Why do they work better than picking up rocks, at least better on a per minute of adding muscle. And the reason that they work better there is that the body’s expecting one signal from gravity. And he gets a different signal and says I guess I should adapt. And it’s driving adaptation, getting the signal and then showing safety and showing adequate minerals, adequate nutrition, when suddenly, oh, that works really well. Everything in the book, there’s a free version based on a new principle. There’s a cheap version. And then there’s the crazy billionaire version. And I collect those, put them in upgrade labs. And that’s now opening across the country, people can go to own and upgrade labs.com and open a franchise in their neighborhood if there isn’t already one opening. And I just want to bring this to people. If you did all these things, you got your strengthen your cardio, well, the 15 minutes we do with the rest well we can put you in technology that needs to recover. Or maybe we plug your brain in. And we do the same thing for your meditation is I believe that when we’re at full power when our digestion works, our guts are healthy bodies are healthy, that we’re actually wired to be nice to each other. We’re kind but we’re also very Powerful, and that makes us dangerous. And my new coffee is called danger coffee for that reason, like who knows what you might do, you might do the right thing, you might help the lady across the street, you might go back to school, you might get a new job, you might just be in charge of yourself instead of being triggered. And I want to build that world.
Dr Gundry 20:15
You mentioned AI, could I have a chat GPT do my exercise for me.
Speaker 3 20:22
I sincerely hope you can. Because I would be the first to sign up for that Exactly, right. There’s no moral failing in that, in fact, it would be beautiful. In the world, my ultimate goal is I would like to, once a year, spend one minute and get all the exercise that I need for my brain, my mind, my body, and everything. I don’t know how to do that. I don’t even know if that’s possible, given all the tools that we know of today. But I’m willing to use AI to get us as close as possible to that today, Dr. Gundry, there are $400 million a year of ghosts, gym memberships, these people never go to the gym 400 million, because it’s not worth it. And our body knows it’s not worth it. And you probably tried it and it just made you sore and tired and you didn’t get very good results. Maybe we can replace that where you just spent a half hour a week or half hour twice a week, but you got so many results, it was worth going. And when that happens, the amount of health care costs in the country will go down, and the amount of niceness will go up. And that’s what we could do.
Dr Gundry 21:21
So speaking of nice this, we know more and more and more every year that our anxiety and depression or lack of their of is controlled by signals from our microbiome. Go Yeah, and I’m working on my next book. And it’s actually it startled even me to realize the power that our microbiome has over everything, and including our niceness, and yes, and we’ve done a horrible job of supporting our microbiome. You and I have written about this extensively. But why don’t we dive in a little bit and talk about how we’ve destroyed our microbiome, and what we can do to make some start to fixing it.
Speaker 3 22:10
I think it’s the fourth or fifth chapter of the book, I write about an anti nutrient that doesn’t get as much attention as lectins. And it’s called phytic acid. We’ve been eating some foods, because in the 70s, back when running was suddenly a thing. When the diet hypothesis, things started to fail. They said, well, it must be because fiber, so they would tell you to eat high fiber foods, even if they shredded your gut, even if they were full of lectins. Heck, even if they were full of lead arsenic and cyanide, it didn’t matter as long as there’s fiber, because fiber was the cure for everything. Right? Well, it turns out, you do need the right kinds of fiber. I mean, you and I have talked a lot about this. He makes great fiber supplements. I forget the name of the powdery one, but it’s good. I put it in smoothies, sometimes pre bio thrive, pre bio Thrive. Thank you. Yeah. And that’s one of the orange stuff. And it has like orange peel pectin, I think, yeah, I like that one. So when you look at that, okay, we have to get that into our gut. But the thing that that doesn’t get talked about enough is that there’s a big evil company out there. And it was called Monsanto. Now it’s called Bayer. And people may not know this part of it. But Bayer was spun off from ag Farben, which is the company in the 1940s, that made the gas used in Germany, like this is not a company with a history of doing good by mankind. And what Monsanto is doing is spraying glyphosate everywhere. And what glyphosate does is especially in the US, we sprayed on our crops, especially wheat at the end of the season. So that makes the plan start to die, because what it does is it steals minerals from the plants, and by chelation, it locks up the minerals, so they’re not available to the plant. The plant says, oh, no, I’m dying, let’s give all my energy to my babies or ripens a week sooner. And then they harvest the wheat and they give it to us. And the minerals are unavailable because of this toxic compound that was put on it. Glyphosate kills bacteria in the soil, which makes the soil dysfunctional. So mineral uptake doesn’t work. And it kills bacteria in our guts. And it’s interesting how many people can tolerate weed in Europe that’s not spread and the anything in the US and they get all sorts of symptoms, including me. I’ve had almost no gluten lately, but I did eat baklava and some croissants in Europe and I was actually okay, I took some enzymes, right for here, it’s disabling. What this means is we’re getting foods that killer, our gut biome, we’re eating more and more of these fake foods. He’s plant based foods that are ultra processed. And we’re ignoring all the toxins that kill your gut bacteria in favor of focusing on carbon dioxide in the air, which is the least of my worries and talk to me about Atrazine. Talk to me about glyphosate and talks about mineral depletion of the soil. We got to fix our soil. That’s why grass fed dairy is important. That’s why organic regenerative agriculture is important and that’s why I have a third each week organic farm where I’m doing this when you do that fix thing the soil, fixes the gut fixes anxiety in the body fixes the brain. And that’s just how it works.
Dr Gundry 25:06
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. I have a big practice in autoimmune disease, and we’re really good at fixing autoimmune disease. My published data over 90% of autoimmune disease resolves in a year by following my progress. And most of that is restoring gut health and the gut wall and leaky gut. And a lot of my people go over to Europe. And they go, this looks so good, okay, I’m going to cheat. I’m going to have croissants, I’m going to have pasta, I’m going to have pizza can overdo it when you’re there. And they don’t react. And they go, Oh, my gosh, oh, Dr. Gundry is cured me, I’m fine now. And they come back to the United States. And they start eating our breads or our granola or whatever. And within a week, they’re, you know, they’re on the phone going, Oh, my gosh, you know, my psoriasis just popped my, you know, leaky gut, I can feel it. My headaches, my migraines are back what I thought you cured me know, you had non glyphosate he did food for a while. And yeah, it’s, it’s scary.
Speaker 3 26:16
If the US government was functioning, they would have seized all the bank accounts from Monsanto. And they would immediately stop allowing this to be done to our food and our population into our soil, it’s going to take a generation to fix what they’ve done to our soil. And there’s no excuse for it, none whatsoever. And we know this now, you have impeccable credentials, there are 10s of 1000s of physicians out there who are seeing and saying exactly the same thing. So this is an emergency level thing, because the US is the only country on the planet that makes 1.85 times as much food as it takes to feed our population. But that won’t keep happening if we keep spraying this stuff. And why is it allowed. And if you’re a farmer or rancher and you’re spraying this, this is your last year to spray it because you will be held accountable for what you’re doing to the earth. And if you’re someone who is allowed this, you will be held accountable for allowing this. This is just broad spread poisoning of people. We maybe didn’t know it 30 years ago, we surely knew it 20 years ago, and now it’s just obvious.
Dr Gundry 27:15
Yeah. And I think that’s why a number of the European governments despite the fact that they are pays a lot of money to the EU parliament, are passing laws to outlaw glyphosate.
Speaker 3 27:28
The solution is distributed agriculture, like they’ve done in Europe forever, where you have sheep, or cows or goats, and chickens, and they fix the soil, they fertilize the soil, they make distributed food, it’s just harder to make profits for big companies that way. But that doesn’t bother me. They don’t need profits, or big unless they’re doing a good job right now they’re doing a terrible job of helping us be healthy. You and I are fortunate that we’ve been able to figure this out and that we can afford to go buy grass fed food, and we can buy the gluten free stuff. But if you can’t afford that stuff, right now, this is this is really serious. And it doesn’t have to be that way.
Dr Gundry 28:04
But we have to remember that sickness is good for business.
Speaker 3 28:08
That’s a good point. And in fact, there’s something that happens in economics, I studied AI, and I really am a computer hacker. And distributed systems create unpredictable behavior sometimes. And there’s something called a system equilibrium where things just end up at a stable point. And it turns out the most profitable business model ever is one, at least one I kind of aside that maybe monopoly but this might be better than monopoly. That’s when you convince people that something works, when it does the opposite of that. So imagine diet soda, I drink about 15 of these a day when I was obese, because I wouldn’t have any sugar because I knew that, well, diet soda increases obesity. So they have a customer for life. And they had some addictive substances as well like, like NutraSweet. So I’m drinking this going, I’m fat, and I keep getting fatter, so I keep drinking more of it. Now, if they made diet soda, that worked, they would sell less of it, because eventually I’d be thin again and say maybe I’ll switch to regular soda, but I don’t drink any soda. It’s unnecessary and bad for you. But you know, at the time, and it turns out exercise is the second big exercise here, you’re gonna have to subscribe to this gym membership and you’re gonna have to have it for life. And maybe, I think there is a minimum necessary but they’re selling it. But if you do go to the gym every day, it doesn’t work. You’re tight all the time and you get stuck on it. And most people who go don’t get results because it doesn’t work very well. So a gym that was perfect would have less people in it. That’s upgrade labs. We’re happy for that.
Dr Gundry 29:42
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Speaker 3 36:15
for a long time. A calorie is a calorie was vividly like the online bullies who saw their say, you know a Snickers bar and a diet soda cancel each other out because of calories. Like all this nonsense and and they’re always very angry because they’re malnourished and hungry. So calorie is not a calorie when you eat the calorie and what calorie it is really makes a difference. So the big food industry is like a ha will trick them again, let’s talk about protein. There are keto cookies that are high protein made out of gluten, it’s just straight gluten because Gluten is a protein. Also sarin, the nerve gas that was used in Tokyo subway attacks. Yeah, that comes from Jack beans, that’s a plant protein. So therefore all plant proteins will kill you. And you should never eat a plant, right? Or maybe not. Also, spider venom will kill you. So therefore you’ll never get an animal either different proteins do different things. And some proteins are more absorbable than others. And what you’ll find with plant based proteins, especially when you eat them with a whole plant, they’re always packaged with an excessive amount of carbohydrate, they’re usually packaged with a lot of a lot of either protein inhibitors. So you cannot use the protein because a plant doesn’t want you to eat its babies. And they’re packaged with lectins. And they’re packaged with phytates. So you got this protein, and it wasn’t very available, and it caused inflammation and it shredded your gut by design. Because they don’t want you to eat it. You don’t have three stomachs like a cow. You’re not a goat, or a pig who can eat lots of things. But even pigs are very sensitive like we are here. So you’re Huh, I guess a protein isn’t a protein because we have animal and plant proteins that can kill us. That means there must be a sliding spectrum for which proteins are better. And we can look at how many amino acids what the ratios of amino acids are. And we guess Alright, that’s a good way to measure proteins, assuming you can get to the amino acid. And it’s sort of like people intuitively understand that if you use a condom, and you have sex pregnancy can happen. If the plant put a condom around a protein with chemicals, you will not be able to use that protein, it will not do what you think it’s going to do. Right. So that vision of like a barrier around something it’s really important to understand. And so you say, well, I ate my garbanzo beans, and they had this amount of whatever protein, you probably couldn’t get to it. And you probably ate hundreds of grams of carbs to get a little bit of protein. It didn’t work. When you look at animal proteins. What I find is that red meat, grass fed red meat has the highest biological availability, you might need digestive enzymes to get to it, but it works very well. If you’re not allergic to it, dairy protein works very well. Chicken works reasonably well. In fact, it can be better than beef for some people, but it comes with with another downside of the Omega six fats. And then if you get down from there into the plant based proteins, they are less bioavailable. The other thing that happens when you eat proteins is amino acids are like letters in the alphabet. peptides are words in the alphabet and proteins are sentences or paragraphs. So you’re saying well, I got a bucket of letters here that’s taking amino acids, assuming your body’s going to reassemble them, which it will do. But if you eat certain proteins, they can also as peptides be signals to the body. So when we’re talking about things like collagen protein, that collagen protein that I’m famous for, for kind of turning into a large industry, oftentimes it’s di and tripeptides. These are words with 23 letters, like if ands or buts, you need lots of those. So you take a peptide that’s so different than just taking an amino acid and so different than eating, you know, gluten, which is a protein so you guys, okay, there’s a difference. animal proteins are superior and more absorbable than fat proteins. My favorite plant protein. If I was to try to get my protein from plants, which I don’t believe is a good idea for a lot of people would be hemp defense. they’d have protein because it’s higher in IgG. There’s a conversation about anti aging and mTOR to be heavier, too, if you want to go there, let’s go
Dr Gundry 40:06
there, why not one of our favorite subjects, okay.
Speaker 3 40:10
So for listeners in tour is a compound, that’s when your body’s in growth mode, it goes up. And I’ve written a big anti aging book, I mean, you have as well. So like we, we share similar thinking, and we’ve read the same PubMed studies, and I greatly respect the work you’re doing. So within tour, if it’s chronically elevated, you get chronic inflammation, because your body is always in growth mode, it’s almost like over exercising, right. And if you don’t have enough mTOR, you have sarcopenia, you lose muscles, right? So in the anti aging worlds, the number that I came up with, after looking at a bunch of papers was on average, 0.6 grams of protein per pound of body weight, good quality absorbable protein a lot more if you’re going to eat plants. Problem is if you do that on a daily basis, you’ll probably lose your muscle mass and you’ll start to look puffy, it’s not enough protein. So the reality is a higher animal protein diet, some days and fasting, or protein fasting on other days, works exceptionally well to keep your average protein there. People worry about protein raising mTOR they worry about animal amino acids like tyrosine and increasing it or the theanine and tryptophan actually more than tyrosine increasing mTOR it doesn’t matter, because guess what raises mTOR the most what? Carbs? Oh, sugar. So are we blaming protein for what sugar? did? I think we are?
Dr Gundry 41:34
Yeah, you know, it’s fun i So far the best measurement least I think for measuring him Tor activation is insulin like growth factor one IGF line. And I, you know, I measure insulin like growth factor one on my patients every three months, and we have games of Okay, let’s see if we can lower insulin like growth factor one particularly, there’s no no shame in having an elevated insulin growth factor up till about the age of 40. But after that, you look at successful aging, super old people, you look at the blue zones, and you look at my patient population in their late 90s, early one hundreds, and I have a bunch of them there. And so my growth factors run about 50 to 70. That, don’t worry about it. But so the object of the game is to try and lower it. I see most people who have an insulin like growth factor, one about 200, these people have a very high risk in my practice of developing cancer. Why? Because it’s not called growth factor for nothing. It’s designed to make things grow. And one of the things that I’ve learned is, as we get older, there is nothing in us that we want to grow. So we have again, and let’s get this down. And there’s really three ways that I found in my practice, you bring up two of them. sugars and starches, elevate mTOR, elevate and swine world factor one, animal protein, certain animal proteins, at least in my practice, clearly elevated insulin growth factor of dairy more than meat. It depends on I’m actually, as I wrote in my last book, unlocking the Keto code, I’m a big fan of cultured fermented dairy products, particularly goat sheep, and a to milk products. Big, big fan. The third thing that we’ve seen, we do fun stuff, say, hey, let’s limit animal protein this round, and don’t change anything else. And the University of St. Louis did this a number of years ago, and they did it with calorie restricted individuals, and they change them not that I’m saying they should do this, they change them to a Negan calorie restricted diet, cut the calories the same. Their insulin, like growth factors went down about 50 points, just by doing that.
Speaker 3 44:08
Now let me ask you this. So IGF one is also a marker for human growth hormone. Yeah, we just getting rid of human growth hormone and these people.
Dr Gundry 44:17
Great question. Well, that’s why I like the idea of cycling. Yes. See, that’s the trick. We work on circadian rhythms we always have really well. Yeah, it’s, it’s like I joked in the last book, it’s like, you know, maybe we hadn’t eaten for two weeks and we killed the Buffalo. And, you know, gee, I want to stay in ketosis because ketosis is great for me, and it’ll suppress my insulin growth factor one. So even though I just killed a buffalo, I only want four ounces of that liver. It’s like really, of course not. You know, we are designed to feast or famine and we are designed to cycle
Speaker 3 44:56
right? We are and this allows for animal protein in meaningful amounts, if you’re looking to grow muscle, which a lot of people in their 80s or 90s need to do, so they don’t break a hip, then you eat more animal protein, but you provide a signal, maybe the very easy ones that are here, the ones that don’t require you to get injured from smarter, not harder, but you get a signal, and then you have your animal protein and you have your carbs mTOR goes up, but then the other day is your fasting or you limit your protein. And I have not had good luck by consuming plant based protein. And even if you can find a clean one without all the arsenic and metals and lectins and all this stuff that then these are highly processed products. What I end up with is it doesn’t seem like it does anything metabolically. Right. So I eat EDS, but then like I shrink, yeah, right. Any thoughts on that? Well, I
Dr Gundry 45:47
think the third factor in lowering IGF one is and you brought it up is time restricted eating intermittent fasting. And that’s actually the most powerful the I think, to me the most impactful study that was done with Italian cyclists, who were on a training table for three months, you all had eat the exact same food. One group of sight cyclist had a 12 hour eating window, they breakfast at eight o’clock in the morning, and they finished eight o’clock at night. The other group had a seven hour eating window, they had break fast at one o’clock in the afternoon, and had to finish by eight o’clock at night, exact same food. Only the seven hour eating window guys lower their IGF one, they both had the same muscle mass, and the seminar even lost weight, even though they the same amount of money, calorie and calorie out.
Speaker 3 46:47
I feel like we should just take that that little snippet there and just replay it as a reply every time an online bully tells you that calories in calories out just, you know exercise less than work, or it is more or less, it’s such nonsense. And you just proved it as as clearly as couldn’t be proven in all of humanity. The other thing that really matters, and that’s one of the chapters in the book is we’ve got to get our minerals, because if you’re eating plant based proteins, they have less minerals than you’re gonna get from animal based proteins. So things like liver powder, or even things like the dairy we’re talking about, they have a much higher amount of of usable minerals. And I find that so many people have tried plant based diets that it’s stripped because of phytic acid, it stripped minerals out when I was a vegan and then a raw vegan I broke two teeth just because I didn’t have any I got cold all the time, I got autoimmune issues I didn’t have before. And when I was able to restore my minerals by taking what in the book I calls vitamin dAche, D, A, K and E M, I know that you make you make supplements with those in it because they matter they what I don’t think people have talked about enough is that those those specific animal derived for the most part, a fat soluble vitamins, they derive minerals into cells. So things like vitamin A retinol, not the plant based vitamin A, that helps iodine, get where it needs to go in the body, and others control zinc and copper and calcium and magnesium. So the combination of macro minerals, trace minerals and vitamin dAche that is really magical for helping to heal the gut getting bone density. And my kind of proof point for a little human guinea pig. I had bone surgery recently on my foot, because an old yoga injury that that did not heal, right. So I’m here actually in Beverly Hills, and the guy goes to cut in I’m awake, because that’s how I roll and hear the bones off. And what the heck, I’m having a hard time getting through the bone. And after the surgery said Dave, I offered it in someone half your age. And there was cut like butter, like like, what are you doing? What I’m doing is managing my minerals, in addition to my protein intake, in addition to my fasting, in addition to stimulating my bones, with the kind of exercises here that don’t take much time. That’s why it’s worth reading the book. You can actually have the Wolverine thing going on? Yeah,
Dr Gundry 49:10
yeah. You know, my my wife, Penny, who was was a great marathon runner, she ran and finished the 100, the running of the Boston Marathon, but she ate a typical marathoners diet, you know, whatever bags of popcorn and chips and the corn chips and pasta. And she had osteoporosis in her 40s. And you know, this is a marathon runner. So when we changed her diet, she resolved her osteoporosis, even though she basically backed off on running and it’s like, Wow, how’d you do that? You know, you’re not pounding the pavement anymore if we changed her diet completely. And the other thing I think we you brought up when we first started talking, maybe it’s a good place to kind of sum up. Number one our soil is so completely depleted of minerals and vitamins. And number two, what people don’t realize is you have to have a soil microbiome Yes, to make these minerals available for absorption via the plant roots. And so we’ve done a double number, we have no minerals in our soil anymore, and we have no more soil microbiome. So it’s like, worst route,
Speaker 3 50:31
you have to take mineral supplements, there’s no way to get it from your food today. Maybe if you live in the middle of nowhere, you farm all your food, which is what I did in Canada, I could get most of my minerals. But that’s not reasonable. And so when I’m traveling, and actually all the time, I take my minerals. And I do it before I take my cool nootropics and my anti aging stuff and all that. Because foundations matter.
Dr Gundry 50:55
Yeah. And that’s something basic than I think everyone listening can do. You don’t have to go the billionaire biohacking route. That’s not I think, no, it’s not what it’s about. Yeah, there are simple steps that you can do. You know, the more you kind of do those simple steps, the better off you’re gonna be. And I thank you for telling people depths that are doable. And heck, don’t exercise as much. That sounds good demo
Speaker 3 51:27
results. I think it’s doable. In fact, the science says it’s doable, and you combine it with a healthy gut. magic happen.
Dr Gundry 51:33
Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, as you know, I do a Audience Question, every podcast. So I’m gonna let you take this, and then I’ll chime in. This question comes from Mercedes Smith 7079. On YouTube. What is your take on oregano oil supplements? All right, Dave,
Speaker 3 51:58
if you have a disrupted gut biome, if you have H. Pylori, if you have something going on, and usually you can smell if something’s going on oregano oil can be really effective. It’s good for yeast problems, and some parasites. The issue is that if you take it all of the time, in high doses, it will disrupt your gut microbiome. So it’s one of those things where you use it on occasion. And the rest of the time, I’m happy to eat a tablespoon of oregano a day. Oregano has all kinds of polyphenols and antioxidants that are really good for you. It’s one of the healthy plants. So I use a ton of it in my cooking that doesn’t have the effect of taking purified oil. But if you’re basically farting, death, oregano oil to the rescue,
Dr Gundry 52:39
I think that’s a very good and wise advice. These things are potent. And you don’t necessarily need potency every day, because you can change your microbiome with that compound and others. And again, the more you think about how these spices were used in the past, I can tell you, our ancestors did not sit around and press oregano oil. They were eating oregano, right? And that we have to we forget that that these things had a huge benefit because of their poly phenol content. And yeah, I said on one of the podcasts look, get yourself a grass fed grass finished beef steak. Don’t eat it very often, in my humble opinion, but use it as a way of getting rosemary and oregano and black pepper into your body to make it drowner with overwhelm. And that’s the way to view these.
Speaker 3 53:39
It’s really cool because if you do exactly what you said, you have olive oil, and those herbs, especially rosemary, but oregano helps in time as well. Those inhibits the pH is that form when you grill meat. So if you grill meat without herbs on it, you get things that are much worse on your microbiome, including TMA. Oh, that comes from burning meat. So burned meat is particularly bad for you. But if you are going to burn your meat a little bit and as herbs, it’s not going to harm you.
Dr Gundry 54:07
Yeah. And eat it to just you know, kind of blood rare. That’s the way to do it. All right, now it’s time for the review of the week. We’re gonna make you sit through it. This is from Jay to dot music. Amazing how the body can heal itself, especially after this Western diet madness. Dr. Gundry is our Savior. Well, I think that was an appropriate comment the body can heal itself after this madness. And Dave, thank you for helping everybody heal themselves. And that’s why I wanted you on the show. And where can you find the book.
Speaker 3 54:50
You can find the book every likes, buy books, bonus points and a gold star if you support an indie bookstore, otherwise, anywhere you’d like to buy books, it’s called smarter, not harder. by Dave Asprey
Dr Gundry 55:01
and where else can they find you I know you plugged your your new exercise biohacking facilities
Speaker 3 55:09
go to upgrade labs.com to see if there’s one near you and if you want to open an upgrade labs you can go to own and upgrade labs.com And it’s possible to open and biohacking facility anywhere. Finally, it’s almost upset Dave asprey.com. But there’s all kinds of stuff I do so. All right.
Dr Gundry 55:24
Thanks for coming. Appreciate.
Unknown Speaker 55:26
Thank you my friend.
Dr Gundry 55:26
That’s it for today. We’ll see you next week because I’m Dr. Gundry. And I’m always looking out for you.
Speaker 4 55:34
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Speaker 5 56:07
Hey, this is Dr. Drew and I’d like to invite all of you to subscribe to the Dr. Drew podcast. We are very proud of what we’re doing there at that podcast. I am interviewing some of the most interesting people you could ever want to talk to just whatever I find fascinating with as a smart person or an expert in a field that I’m interested in. Or maybe I’m not even interested in. I’m only interested because I’ve heard them speak and become intrigued. I think you’ll be intrigued as well. We get deep into topics that are quite important to the current age. Things like cognitive dissonance cognitive distortions, how does our mind work? We talked about everything at the dark through podcast that is of real relevance. We get all the way into deep physics and all sorts of stuff, but trust me, it’s all very accessible. It’s very interesting headaches for even just learning about headaches we get there. We go to the interesting topics of the day. Please join us at the Dr. Drew podcast.
Dr Gundry 57:01
I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Dr. Gundry podcast. If you did, please share this with family and friends. You never know how one of these health hacks can completely transform someone’s life when you take the time to share it with them. There’s also the Dr. Gundry podcast YouTube channel where we have 10s of 1000s of hours of free health insights that can help you and your loved ones live a long vital life. Let’s do this together. Because I’m Dr. Gundry. And I’m always looking out for you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai