Dr. Steven Gundry (00:00):
Camille, welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast. It’s so great for you to come all the way from France to be on our program. I appreciate that so much.

Camille Hermann (00:07):
Thank you, Dr. Gundry, for having me here today.

Dr. Steven Gundry (00:10):
Now, before we dive into the science, I have to say, you’ve been such an incredible ambassador for my work in France. You’ve championed Gut Checker in a big way, and I know you’re planning to support the French release of the Gut Brain Paradox in September.

Camille Hermann (00:24):
Yes, exactly.

Dr. Steven Gundry (00:25):
That really means the world to me and thank you so much because I know I have a very large community in France and of course we travel, we live in France part of the time and so, uh, we have a great deal of affection, uh, for France and thank you for returning that affection. How did you discover my work and what made it resonate with you so strongly?

Camille Hermann (00:48):
What resonate is really the microbiome because in cosmetic industry, we spoke on microbiome since few years, but it is not really concrete. We say, “Okay, microbiome, we have to act on microbiome to act on skin.” But I was deeply convinced through years in the industry that even if it’s cosmetic is helping and it’s helpful. It is not how we start helping skin disease or skin issues. And I was deeply convinced about food nutrients to act like a s – a fuel for skin because as you know, there is circulation in the dermis. What I see you today and what I se of people is epidermis. Mm-hmm. But the s – the skin cells, they are starting in the dermis when the blood is arriving. So nutrients and everything, they’re arriving in the blood and help the cells to consum beautifully. But what if your microbiome and the food you take not the good one or making you a h – um, licky gut?

(01:55):
So this is why I was so convinced about your work and, and you were such a pioneer because it was as you, as I said off camera, you speak of microbiomes in a long, a very, very, very long time, but with very concrete applicable protocols, polyphenols, melatonins, and everything we spoke in the podcast. Mm-hmm. So thank you for that and d- deeply resonate for me as a skin biologist and for my community in France, which really want to improve the metabolism because skin is the dashboard of metabolism and dashboard of the gut.

Dr. Steven Gundry (02:31):
Yeah, absolutely. Now you actually spent 15 years, uh, you know, with the top of the cosmetic industry. I mean, like L’Oreal and Clarins and Eucerin. You know, that’s an extraordinary career. So why would you, like me, walk away from that and start asking deeper questions about where skin health really comes from? I mean, that’s a big change.

Camille Hermann (02:53):
Yeah. 15 years ago, when we spoke about food and skin, it was cosmetic for skins, creams, and it was all about slimming. So eating less, how eating less, low fat, no sugar things, sweeteners, lots and lots of sweeteners. We were eating bars to be slimmer and slimmer. So it was nutrition for slim and cosmetics for skin. I mean, cosmetics are very nice. I love cosmetic. I’m from here, I’m sure, and I’m convinced that active ingredients, there are lots of efficiency around it. But if you only use cosmetics and not acting with food, it’s like you’re painting a car and washing the car, but you’re not putting the n – the right shoe in it. So you can drive the car, you know?

Dr. Steven Gundry (03:42):
Good point.

Camille Hermann (03:43):
And I understood that there was some points, some issues that were not solved with only cosmetics. And then I was really interested into nutrition and I found studies and I went to Lacerbane, to Harvard to be, to, to learn more about nutrition. And what I discovered was really interesting is that lack of some nutrients can reflect on the skin. For example, zank – mm-hmm. Can promote acne because impudis that you’re losing with ages, uh, making you look older with time. And I wanted to go deeper and then I discovered as well you work on microbiome and we started talking about microbiome. And then I say, okay, I passed 15 years finding solutions on the outside. Now I want to deeply go on the inside to find the right solutions. And it is why all started because I was convinced, thanks to your work, that everything is starting in the gut.

(04:46):
And for skin, it is also the same.

Dr. Steven Gundry (04:49):
You mentioned it earlier, but I think we wanna say it again, and you have this really powerful phrase that the skin is the dashboard of our biology. And, you know, it’s like what I say, your skin, your skin is your gut turned inside out and vice versa. So what do you mean that it’s a dashboard of our biology? What, what can we see on the skin that reflects what’s happening inside?

Camille Hermann (05:14):
So skin is not a cosmetic envelope. It’s much more. As you said, I say it’s a dashboard because you can read on the skin what’s happening inside in your gut, but also, and I know you love the brain as well with your upcoming book. Mm-hmm. It’s also reflects what happened in the mood and in the brain. So reading someone’s skin and you did in your practice every day, you can understand what’s happening deeply. I have some example for, uh, which are quite original and may surprise you. We though for years that spots on the skin is just because of the sun are aging. But it’s also linked and we know now because of cortisol. So you can have, like, spots on the face because of cortisol, cortisol, mood, brain. But also all the deficiency, you can read it on the skin. If you have dual skin, it could be some nutrients like iron, like antioxidants, like other things.

(06:17):
There is some disease you can read on the skin and you told me really nice and interesting example on your, on your patients. Yeah. Binking skin issues and big problems. And skin is not just cosmetic. It’s a way to enter in our else. Because lots of women, they start wanting because they have been so many, so long into slimming and slimming and slimming that in the, in a cosmetic way, they need to be slim and have a nice skin. And sometimes they start with the skin saying, “I want more beautiful skin, more pretty skin.” And then trying to understand more deeper the problem and now they want to understand how by food and how internally, uh, the problem is on their skin. They want to go deeper and they find some disease by the skin. So skin, you don’t have to see it like, like cosmetic envelope people.

(07:12):
It’s really a dashboard of your health, metabolism, hormone, brain and everything. So in nutrition, you can find lot, lot of issues starting in the gut that you can see on the skin.

Dr. Steven Gundry (07:24):
Right. Now, the cosmetic industry has spent decades and billions of dollars telling us that better skin comes from what we put on it. And that’s the basis of that industry. Now, how much of this is true or, or not true? I mean, I think you believe, as I do, that you have to have a double-pronged approach that topical has its place, but internal has its place. Is, is that a good takeaway from this?

Camille Hermann (07:55):
Yes. You have two acts on the inside first. And the outside is clearly a tool as well. But what I really believe is you have to do less is more because cosmetic industries make efficient products. But as we say, microbiome is a world. It’s full world of bacteria. You have a microbiome in the skin – Yeah. Which communicates through metabolites with the gut microbiome. It’s like friends talking to each other all along the day with WhatsApp call, with call meta- metabolites. And sometimes what you put on the skin can also disrupt your microbiome. For example, with all the skincare routine with one, two, three, four, five, six, 10 products, there is in cosmetics active ingredients, which are interesting, but they are also preservatives. Yeah. And preservatives, if you have one cream or two cream routine, why not? But if you have a 10 layer routine, how many preservatives there is need?

(08:56):
So you can solve a problem with preservatives that are ok – preserving the cream, but also killing part of your microbiome. So less is more in the outside and really focus on the inside, starting the gut, fixing your leaky gut. If the gut is fixed, cellular, cellular cells are fixed. Skin is fixed as well.

Dr. Steven Gundry (09:21):
Do you think you obviously co- come from this industry, and your husband still works in this industry, right?

Camille Hermann (09:27):
Yeah, he is.

Dr. Steven Gundry (09:28):
Do you think there’ll be a movement for skincare companies to also be gut care companies or, or you’re just gonna stay in your own lane?

Camille Hermann (09:39):
Yes, there is a big move because people is a- a- asking for more inside solution. So today, uh, brands who came from skincare, they are developing the supplements and they ed – they’re educating more and more people to understand how to feed themself for skin. But it still needs concrete tools and concrete protocols. And this is why your work is really fascinating because it’s not only saying, okay, microbiome, it’s important, or you have to eat well. Every magazines, they’re saying for your skin, eat well. But what does that mean? What does

Dr. Steven Gundry (10:12):
That mean?

Camille Hermann (10:13):
Yeah. I, what I, I start with, you know? So only the start of educating people around how to eat for the gut, for the skin, and to be very concrete what to eat, what to avoid. In your work, you talk a lot about lectins, which is making our gut unhealthy and attacked. For example, the need to learn what are lectins and how to avoid them and how to find food where there is no lectins. There is so much to learn. And as you say, when you fix the gut and when you nourish the gut, you nourish the skin at the end. And yes, the industry is making more and more supplements currently. And not only collision. We are going deeper now with mitochondrial, um, supplements coming from your work, mitochondrial uncoupling. It’s you who, who bring us this, uh, this knowledge really important that also has impact on the skin.

(11:11):
So yes, it’s starting.

Dr. Steven Gundry (11:14):
So people who are listening or watching, what are the warning signs on skin that most people are, are covering up that should alert them that the problem is probably happening much deeper?

Camille Hermann (11:28):
First point, I have to say acne. Because we try to solve acne for years and years and years with medications, drugs, uh, creams, lots and lots of creams. We never add so many acnes that we have today. And as you said before, acne, it’s a new pathology. We didn’t have acne before. And acne is the number one, I mean, skin disease. So there is something happening in your gut and then that you have to fix the problem. We call it an inflammatory dermatosis. Mm-hmm. Which means you have to fix the gut. The gut is saying, okay, warning, warning, there is acne. Stop taking me, taking care of me only with the outside. You have to fix the gut. Acne is the number one. I have to say as well, eczema, atopic dermatitis as well. We have a lot of eczema and lots of newborn as well.

(12:27):
And because there is m- much more cesarean today. Yes. And you said before that the microbiome come from the mother. So there is much more eczema, much more acne. These two kind of dermatosis are called inflammatory dermatosis and it’s happening in the gut as well.

Dr. Steven Gundry (12:47):
Do you see… We, we’ve certainly seen an epidemic of, of this in the United States. Do you see this also in Europe in France? Is, is, is it much more than it used to be?

Camille Hermann (12:58):
Yes, there is much more acne, eczema. And there is something interesting because I guess concerning aging, the skin in Europe is aging quite well. And you said it before. I made a hypothesis and I wanted to talk about this with you. We have less sweeteners in France, um, than in US because we don’t have this huge soda-free industry, this huge sweeteners transformed products industry. Yeah. We have but less than the US.

Dr. Steven Gundry (13:34):
True.

Camille Hermann (13:34):
And I guess we have lots of plain yogurt and people they had a little bit of only of a spoon of sugar and that’s it. And you say to me, and I found it really interesting that the sweeteners, artificial sweeteners, they act like signal. Maybe they could act like signal on location as well and making the skin aging as well.

Dr. Steven Gundry (14:00):
Yeah. No, there’s… You’re right. There’s certainly less processed foods in Europe, though our, our poison is gradually getting over to Europe. And one of the things that impressed us for years and years is, uh, beaches on the French Riviera or the Italian Riviera usually never saw an, an overweight kid, uh, an overweight child. If you did see them, quite frankly, they were usually from Russia or the Eastern block. Uh, but very rare to see a, a, an overweight, uh, French or Italian child. Now we’re beginning to see s- slightly overweight children that I’ve never really seen, uh, 20 years ago, for instance. And then you start looking at what’s available in these ultra-processed products that you can just walk away from any grocery store. It’s worrisome that we’ve been… We, we love to export poison. Um, the other thing I, I heard actually a, a good example.

(15:18):
I did not know this, but in France, you basically have a law that limits the size of grocery stores – Oh. To a footprint. And I, I’ve always been curious in the United States, grocery stores, you know, can go for a block. Of course, you do have, like, co-ops, uh, that are big. But mostly, they’re, they’re small grocery stores. And I’ve always been impressed that when the grocery store is small, you’re really down to essentials. And one of our little grocery stores in San Jin Kapharat, there’s a, there’s a whole display in the grocery store, just as an example, of tinned fish, uh, and sardines and mackerel and clams. This much of the grocery store is devoted to, to tinned fish.

Camille Hermann (16:14):
Yeah.

Dr. Steven Gundry (16:14):
And in the United States, there might be one or two. And it’s like, wow, this little grocery store and there’s that much tinned fish. So that’s something. Tell me about the French paradox. Um, you guys are legendary that, um, particularly women now are, are, are quite heavy smokers or vapers. Uh, definitely vaping has taken over smoking. Is that why French women are so skinny?

Camille Hermann (16:48):
Maybe. But maybe there i – there is other, um, answers to that. I guess, first of all, we are not snacking a lot. Um, in the US, there is a snacking trends all along the day. Eat

Dr. Steven Gundry (17:05):
All day, yeah.

Camille Hermann (17:06):
So the insulin level is making waves, I guess. Yeah. All along the way today. In France, we’re eating at breakfast or not for people fasting. We’re eating at lunch and at dinner, but we’re not snacking all day. It’s like occasional or festive, you know, if we’re snacking. Also, there is something about the sizes, I guess. I love when I come to a country and I do it every time for me museums as supermarket and supermarket. So when I go to countries, I want… The first thing I want to do is to go to a supermarket.

Dr. Steven Gundry (17:37):
Yeah, that’s what we do. Yeah.

Camille Hermann (17:38):
And then I stay for one hour and see the food and everything. The first thing that I found interesting in the US, the first, uh, time I went was the size of the portion. Because in France, we’re eating everything. We are kind of an adonistic country, but in a li – in smaller size. Yeah. Yogurt are smaller. Everything is smaller. But we are very adonistic, but in smaller size and without snacking. So maybe the insulin, uh, is a, is, can rest a little bit sometimes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, I guess also we are near Italy, we are near Spain, all this country, and we are near Magreb where your olive oils is produced. Correct. Very nice olive oils. So we have very nice olive oils. And we are… So polyphenols, we have it a lot, I guess, also. True. Um, we have very nice cheese. We have high quality butter with nice fats.

(18:35):
Um, so maybe there is other… There is very bad things in our food and we have bad habits sometimes. But maybe this, this could explain it as well. And even if we have sugary taste, like in the US, as we say, we don’t have these lots of sweeteners politics. We have less sweeteners, I guess, in our food. Hm.

Dr. Steven Gundry (18:59):
I have a, a fairly recent patient of family who, uh, are from Paris and the father had to move to, uh, New York City because they’re, they’re building a building. And he’s a very fit gentleman and very health conscious. And within a y – a year of moving to the United States, he hasn’t changed his workout regimen. He hasn’t changed anything. He’s gained 20 pounds just by eating our food.

Camille Hermann (19:33):
Yeah.

Dr. Steven Gundry (19:33):
Yeah. And he, he’s just, he’s apoplectic. He’s, he’s, he, he just can’t believe how our food is put on 20 pounds. And he, he hasn’t changed anything except our food.

Camille Hermann (19:49):
This is funny what you’re, you’re telling me, because me and my family, we were living in New York as well. And we had the same phenomenon. Yeah. We didn’t change every – anything. We went to organic shop and we gained weight at the beginning.

Dr. Steven Gundry (20:04):
Yeah. Because even so many of our organic foods are still contaminated with pesticides and Roundup and glyphosate because it drifts. And it’s, it’s, yeah. It’s, uh, so you’re correct. We’re, we’re good at poisoning people. All right. Now, what the heck is dermonutrition?

Camille Hermann (20:26):
Dermonutrition is a science of taking care of your skin by the inside. And when I started understanding this science, I wanted to make it very concrete. I know you, you like concrete things – mm-hmm. That you do. You give advice and protocols. And dermal nutrition is how to do it. I f- find work of experts. I, I work a lot on studies on a book like yours. I talk a lot with experts to really take all the knowledges and synthesize it for people so they can take care of the skin through the inside. And I found an acronym that I find interesting to help people making a plate for the skin. In French, it is poor, which means skin. And in English, it will be glow. J for good source of proteins because your skin is like a house. You have to build it with nice source of proteins, with good proteins.

(21:30):
No, nothing GC. <laugh> But nothing, nothing AC, no 5AC, because you’re building collagen, you’re building elastines, you’re building all the structure of your skin with good sources of proteins. But not too much because as you, as you say, Dr. Gundry, and you can confirm it to me, you can stock the excess of proteins, right?

Dr. Steven Gundry (21:51):
Yeah.

Camille Hermann (21:51):
And it’s made glucose.

Dr. Steven Gundry (21:53):
Yeah.

Camille Hermann (21:53):
So glucose is problematic. It makes location. So there is no black or white zone with proteins, but a gray zone, a middle zone, no excess, no too little protein, because women tends to eat very poor portion of proteins. I don’t know if it’s the case in the US, but in France, it’s like it’s a lo- love eating pasta and vegetables, but very few portion of proteins. And L of glow is for liquid. And by liquid, I mean water, plain water, no sodas, no orange juice, no, not that’s everything because water is like what’s durating the body. Moisturizing the skin from the inside, but also it’s draining all the bad things and helping you to eliminate toxins and pollutants in your body. Mm-hmm. It’s kind of a river that’s circulating. You have to drink water only water. Then you can have coffee after, of course, on top, but water is like the really important reminder.

(22:52):
You have to drink water every day for your skin and your health. O is for omega-3. Because what I discovered and I found really interesting is that even if omega-6 is okay, and you said it with your, my darling oil, <laugh> the peria oil, omega-6 is okay in a certain amount and good omega-6. But in France, and I guess in the world, there is a, a huge imbalance between omega-6 con- consumptions and omega-3 consumptions. Correct. Omega-3, you found it in little fish in some plants, but it’s L-E-L-A, so inactive omega-3. Correct. And people, the need to identify omega-3 and to have it in all their plates because if your omega-3 omega-6 balance is not good, then it’s going to inflammatory disease and to push inflammatory on your skin, acne, eczema, aging, et cetera. So please think about your omega-3 every day. It’s important. And then W is for wall color foods.

(23:56):
It’s the rainbow, you say.

Dr. Steven Gundry (23:57):
Rainbow, yeah.

Camille Hermann (23:58):
That’s so true. You have to eat red vegetables for liqopen, orange vegetables for car – keratinoids, green vegetables for chlorophyll and everything. Because we have antioxidants which are, are defending ourselves from aging and lots of skin disease. But if you eat only red, only greens, you have only one wire in your army. You need to have a full army of colors, a full army of antioxidants to help your skin defend itself from aging and from disease. So I make this dermatition science concrete starting by this kind of plate. And I wrote a whole book on that, uh, talking about how to change your skin in four weeks. Yeah. Because in four weeks, your skin regenerates deeply from the inside. Right. And I’m… So I take all this work from experts like you, from science studies to make it really concrete. Because for me, science need to be concrete on the daily basis.

Dr. Steven Gundry (24:59):
And you can do this in four weeks.

Camille Hermann (25:00):
You can do it in around less or more four weeks. Four weeks if you’re quite young and if you don’t have strong skin issues, if you have strong acne, strong eczema, it will take, take longer. The, in four weeks, you have very nice results on, uh, radiance because skin has this incredible power to be very radiant very quick by changing the way you eat. True. So I saw exceptional results in four weeks. But if you are older, you can, if you have really skin, deep skin issues, can be longer. But four weeks is more or less the time the skin needs to regenerate. But if you’re older, the skin regenerate a l – uh, in a longer time.

Dr. Steven Gundry (25:42):
Is it ever too late to regenerate your skin?

Camille Hermann (25:48):
It’s never too late. Because your skin is your gut, as you say, and it’s never too late to take care of your gut. So if you take care of your gut of what you eat today, your skin gonna reflect that the skin is a reflection of your gut and your, and your plate.

Dr. Steven Gundry (26:08):
Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. I wanna go to another topic that’s a favorite of mine and yours. Olive oil.

Camille Hermann (26:18):
Yeah.

Dr. Steven Gundry (26:19):
Now, uh, I have to say I’ve been in talking about this for a very long time. Um, back in 2019, I actually had the olive oil hunter on this very podcast. And I was already recommending people take a daily shot of high quality olive oil for their health. And I wasn’t the first to talk about this. I mean, Sophia Loren has always owed her beauty to olive oil, not only as a skincare product, but drinking it. And now taking olive oil shots is one of the hottest social media new beauty and longevity trend. And I’m glad the world’s catching up, but I’ve been saying this for a very long time.

Camille Hermann (27:00):
Yeah.

Dr. Steven Gundry (27:00):
In fact, one of my favorite sayings is the only purpose of food is to get olive oil into your mouth. So what do you think, looking as a skin nutritionist, what are the benefits of olive oil for your skin?

Camille Hermann (27:13):
This is interesting because speaking of olive oil, most of the time when I d – I discover something on dermal nutrition, I first discovered through the derma – dermocosmetic industry I worked for 15 years. Olive oils, I remember I was developing new products 10 years ago. And in Asia, Asia is kind of a labs for cosmetic industry. We love to go to Asia to see what they’re doing because they’re the Korean and Asian –

Dr. Steven Gundry (27:40):
Yeah, Korean, yeah.

Camille Hermann (27:40):
Really fashionable.

Dr. Steven Gundry (27:41):
Japanese. Yeah.

Camille Hermann (27:42):
And it’s true, sometimes they, they’re really innovative in cosmetics. And I was surprised because I see at this time, they were the lay- layering trends, you know, what we call in French the milfurri – Oh yeah. Which is a French pastry. Um, and they were layer- layering a lot in Asia with oil first to clean s – then soap, then serums and cream. And I found a very interesting protocol in Asia where there is not lots of olive oil. No. With an olive oil serum, just plain olive oil. So that was the first time I met olive oil for skin. And then of course, I discovered your work and h- how not to drink olive oils as an inside serum because you can put it on the face. And we have mitochondria everywhere on the skin, on the gut. So polyphenols is what is good from the inside is good from the outside.

(28:38):
So olive oils is a very nice way to take care of the gut and to take care of the skin.

Dr. Steven Gundry (28:43):
I guess Cleopatra used to bathe in olive oil. Yes.

Camille Hermann (28:47):
Yeah. Yes, she used to. And olive oils is… What I love with oils in skincare is that there is no preservatives.

Dr. Steven Gundry (28:55):
That’s true.

Camille Hermann (28:57):
So if you put olive oils on your face, there is no preservative, you’re not killing your microbiome. So I always say people, because of the epidermis, there is, uh, water plus oil on your skin naturally. Right. So it’s nice to mix water with oil before putting it on your face so it can mix with your hydrolipidic layer, but without the, without the preservatives. So you’re making a cream at the moment mixing a little of water and oil in your hand and putting it on the face. It’s perfect. And olive oil is a, is a key for that. It’s a perfect serum.

Dr. Steven Gundry (29:33):
Hm. You know, uh, interestingly, I think it’s in Gut Check. I’ve written so many books, I forget where I put things now. There are actually bacteria, uh, a species of bacteria called blotium in, uh, olives and in preserved olives and also in olive oil. And it’s actually a really important, uh, bacteria for the skin. And people go, “Wait a minute. There’s, there’s bacteria in, in olive Olive oil? Well, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a living thing. And we, you know, we’ve been trained thanks to pasteur that bacteria are bad for us.

Camille Hermann (30:11):
Yeah.

Dr. Steven Gundry (30:11):
And that’s not true. They’re good bacteria. And I, I think it’s fascinating that, for instance, most great cheeses are loaded with bacteria. Yeah. And most of them are really good for us. Uh, and there’s more and more studies showing the incredible benefits of cheese is more from the bacteria that the cheese contain and the postbiotics that cheese contains. So we’re, yeah, so olive oil’s got bacteria in it. Get over it. Um, it’s, it’s good for you. Now, I’ve actually, as you know, developed my own olive oil, my polyphenol rich olive oil from Gundry MD because I couldn’t find enough polyphenols in olive oil that met my standards. And have you, have you had a chance to try my olive oil?

Camille Hermann (31:03):
Yes. And I love it. You speak of Cleopatra, but you know, Alexandro de Gron was taking his olive oils in my grib. Oh, yeah. When you take yours. So it’s an amazing place to find a good olive oils. In Europe, we are very lucky, I have to say, because we have so many good olive oils. True. And I love the story of yours. For me, it’s Alexand LeGrand kind of olive oils.

Dr. Steven Gundry (31:27):
One more thing, you know, you, I had an epiphany about Big Ed and you and I talked about it on, on your show. Was there a, an epiphany for you that changed how you, you said, uh, you know, “I’m not just gonna concentrate here. I’m gonna concentrate there?”

Camille Hermann (31:45):
Yes, I had. I had. I had a, I had a friend who had big issues on her skin. At this time, I was working in the, work- working in the indus- industry. But I was really interested into nutrition. And I remember in, um, after, after walking, I was writing diets. I was trained to wr- write the perfect diets for skin. With all the knowledges I accumulate, reading studies, trying on myself as well, because I’m my, I’m my first lab. Yeah. I’m trying first on me, like I guess you was trainingir. Train me, yeah. And this friend, she had big eczema issues. She saw her skin holding very quick. And I say, “Okay, I’m trying… I, I, I, I wrote some kind of diet. Do you want to try it? ” Because I’m trying it on my, on myself after a burnout. I made a burnout, I have to say.

(32:37):
And I had my skin, like, I took 10 years in one month. I had spots. I had acne. I had new wrinkles and I couldn’t see myself in the mirror. So I tried this new diet I wrote. It worked very, very well in, like, four weeks. Really, my skin really changed. Changed. Yeah. And I said, “Okay, maybe it’s me, maybe it’s psychological or everything.” And I tried it on this friend who asked me to try it as well because she said, “Okay, you, you just made the burnout to, uh, I s- seen you and your skin. It was just… It’s amazing what you’ve done.” And she tried it. And she came to see me and she was, she was crying. She was, “I can’t see me, myself in the mirror again.” And it is… At the moment, I say, “Okay, I quit the industry. I want to help people buy food and how to nourish them from the inside to solve their skin.” Because after trying to solve people with skincare, I want now to help trying and solve the issues with the inside and the gut and the nutrition.

(33:42):
Even if skincare is important as well, as you say, we have to… It’s a, a house with multiple doors, but the gut and the nutrition has been ignored for too long. Now we have to focus on nutrition.

Dr. Steven Gundry (33:56):
Well said. Now, you’re preparing to promote the gut-brain paradox in France when it comes out in French – Yes.

Camille Hermann (34:02):
This

Dr. Steven Gundry (34:02):
September. What excites you most about the book? Uh, do you think the gut-brain connection matters specifically for skin health?

Camille Hermann (34:10):
I’m convinced it matters for skin health because there is, there are hormones which are, um, con- conduct by brain, like cortisol, for example. Mm-hmm. Cortisol act on the skin. Lots of, of eczema, acne are going deeper with cortisol and stress momentum. And before, before I discovered your work, we were speaking about the skin microbio – biome gut link. Yeah. But it was not concrete. And it’s ama- amazing because I heard now brain gut skin triangle. So there is a concrete link and I can’t wait to talk about it to the French community to, so they can manage this new triangle for skin, but brain is so much important in skin. And there is a microbiome in the brain, Dr. Gandry.

Dr. Steven Gundry (35:02):
Oh, yeah there is.

Camille Hermann (35:04):
That’s amazing.

Dr. Steven Gundry (35:05):
Yeah.

Camille Hermann (35:06):
Congrats for this work.

Dr. Steven Gundry (35:07):
Thanks. So talk to us about the, the French and, and gut health. As you know, I spent a lot of time there. Is it a big problem? Do people think about it now in France? I don’t, I don’t get the sense that they do, but I certainly get the sense, like you talk about that their way of, your way of eating is very different than Americans. In terms of, of medicine in, in France, w- what are the directions going?

Camille Hermann (35:37):
Now they truly understand there is something in the gut. There is a congress on microbiome, but the first one who spoke about gut and microbiome and French are listening to it. It’s you, Dr. Gundry. So because they know your work and because microbiome is now a trend, we have to say as well, they want to take care of their microbiome and leaky gut is now the center of the nutrition approach. So people know they are, they have issues in their, in their gut and they’re craving for solution. I felt it because Dr. Gundry, when we, uh, we told the French community about your work, which, you know, uh, I’m actively supporting in France.

Dr. Steven Gundry (36:21):
Thank you.

Camille Hermann (36:22):
They are really receptive and they say, “Thank you, Dr. Gundry. We have solutions because we’ve been told about microbiome and microbiome and everything, but we don’t know what to do. Okay, microbiome, but what’s next? What I’m doing? What I’m taking? What is the protocol?” And because you’re giving concrete protocols, people tend to be, “Okay, so I can fix a leaky gut.” Because okay, I’ve got a leaky gut. But what if they don’t know what to do? Right. And now they know what to do thanks to you. So this is an open door for French people to change the way they live, the way they eat, to take care of their gut, thanks to your work. And there is studies going around, but you were the first one opening this door.

Dr. Steven Gundry (37:03):
Yeah. Well, thank you. All right. Let’s, let’s do, take a few takeaways. So with all your experience in the skincare industry, what, what do we really need? You’ve kind of touched on it, but walk us through your morning and night routine.

Camille Hermann (37:19):
Skincare, you mean?

Dr. Steven Gundry (37:19):
Yeah, skincare.

Camille Hermann (37:20):
And m – on the morning, you don’t need to wash your skin. Huh. People are washing their skin too much. And there is a microbiome. I repeat it on the skin. Correct. So stop eliminating your good microbiome. So on the morning, the skin is not dirty. You know, you don’t have to wash it. So just water is okay. Please let your good microbiome –

Dr. Steven Gundry (37:42):
Grow. <laugh>

Camille Hermann (37:43):
And grow and your, your edrolipider films who, who has renewed during the night. Right. It needs to protect you during the day, so keep it. Just make it simple and wash it with water. Then you don’t have to, to get multiple skincare serum or cream is okay. You know, you don’t need to have serum, plus serum, plus cream plus another cream plus foundation and everything. Less is really more. What I love to tell people is to use vegetable oil as a skincare product because there is no preservative. So you are not adding preservative on top of preservatives. So olive oil is nice, coconut oil is nice. Mm-hmm.

(38:19):
And then SPF. Every day SPF, because sun is an everyday issue. And for skin, it’s the first, first photo a- aging – mm-hmm. Problem and issue. So just not cleaning the skin, olive oils or coconut oils, and there’s, and there’s an SPF. And at the night, you can clean it with a nice soap. In France, uh, you know, we have naturan, which is like the, the maker of olive oil soap, which is made in really ancient protocol and process, really unique with an olive oil, which is the, the same quality as the one you use in Gundry Andi. Mm-hmm. And she makes soap with it, which helps maintain the microbiome and clean the skin without eliminating the good bacterias and nourishing the good bacteria. So wash it with a nice soap, a good soap. And then just the same, just olive oil or coconut oil. If you want a cream or a serum with a nice active ingredients, if you like retinol or something like that, but please stop with layering and layering and layering.

(39:24):
It’s going to be worst.

Dr. Steven Gundry (39:26):
Hm.

Camille Hermann (39:26):
Make it simple.

Dr. Steven Gundry (39:28):
And this is coming from the skincare industry. Oh my gosh. Uh, you’re a, you’re a heretic, I guess. <laugh>

Camille Hermann (39:36):
I love cosmetics, but less is more.

Dr. Steven Gundry (39:38):
What about the, the Korean skincare trend? What, what can we l – what can we learn from them other than olive oil?

Camille Hermann (39:46):
Korean is interesting because they’re bringing trends first most of the time. Um, but sometimes it’s kind of TikTok trends from, you know? Because, uh, Korean skincare, some, sometimes there is good active ingredients and very good formulas in Korean skincare. Yes, that’s true. And really disruptive ones. So there is very good Korean brands, but please don’t do layering because it’s the TikTok trends.

Dr. Steven Gundry (40:13):
Okay. All right. ‘Cause everybody, if you go through Costco, there’s Korean skincare lines now. It’s a big discounter in America. Well, this has been a great conversation. Now, usually we have an audience question that they get to ask me something. But since you’ve flown all the way here, and I know you still are bursting with questions that we didn’t get to on your interview, you have a question for me before we go?

Camille Hermann (40:44):
Yes. Dr. Gundry, in France now, thanks to your work we are taking more and more care of our skins through our guts. And we’re taking healthy soda, of course, and olive oils cocktails you, you propose. I have lots of people following me that seen, that I’ve seen their hair growing much more stronger and stop losing the hair when they have problems since they’re consuming your healthy soda. And there is microbiome on, on hair, on hairscalp as well. Oh,

Dr. Steven Gundry (41:19):
Yeah.

Camille Hermann (41:19):
So do you see a link between that?

Dr. Steven Gundry (41:22):
Yeah. I actually, again, one of the concerning trends I see, uh, particularly in Italy, is women’s hair. And again, I’ve been going over there for 25 years now. More than that, but a lot over the last 25 years. And I see a lot of women, particularly in Italy, older women, who have very thin hair and they almost look bald. And it disturbs me that they’re, again, they’re very heavily pasta and pizza and, and bean-based society. And I worry that th- that thinning hair is just a reflection of, of their leaky gut. And you’re right, a lot of people who follow my protocol that one of the things that happens is they get a better head of hair. And genetically, my, my grandfather, my maternal grandfather was bald early. And I’m 76 and still – Amazing. Still have a full head of hair. Interestingly enough, I, when I first started doing the, this on myself 20, more than 25 years ago, I had actually a pretty good bald spot on the back of my head that my kids would kid me about.

(42:44):
And it all grew back in. So yeah, I think it, it, it all connects to the gut. It, it really does. Again, Hippocrates knew this. Um, but so I, I didn’t, I didn’t, I, I’m just a slow learner and maybe I’m a, a good communicator of what Hippocrates knew. I still, I keep going because I keep trying to figure out how this guy knew this. It’s just how do you know this? And it’s not just him. Uh, I have a patient who’s a, um, Sanskrit co – scholar. He, and he knows a lot about the Buddha. And I was telling him all about Hippocrates. And it turns out the Buddha was a contemporary of Hippocrates. And he said, “You know, this, this resonates with me. ” He says, “I don’t know why it’s resonating, but I’m gonna go back and read some of his writings.” And so he, he called me up and he says, “You’re not gonna believe this, but the Buddha said that enlightenment comes from the

Camille Hermann (43:49):
Intestines.”

Dr. Steven Gundry (43:50):
So here’s, you know, here’s Eastern medicine and Western medicine simultaneously, you know, saying, you know, enlightenment comes from the intestines, health comes from the intestines. It’s like, wow, maybe the bacteria were talking to these guys long ago and they listened. So we have to listen to our bacteria. All right. So where can people find you, especially those outside of France, uh, who wanna follow your work?

Camille Hermann (44:17):
On Instagram, uh, VegiGlo.

Dr. Steven Gundry (44:21):
Veggie Glue.

Camille Hermann (44:21):
Veggie Glo, G-L-O. Yeah. Not W.

Dr. Steven Gundry (44:24):
Oh, no W. Okay.

Camille Hermann (44:25):
Under French Glow.

Dr. Steven Gundry (44:26):
<laugh> Ah, yeah. And is it dot com or –

Camille Hermann (44:31):
Vegi – our, uh, VegiGlo on Instagram and on YouTube, uh, Camille Herman, biologist. When there is podcasts with pioneers when you’re gonna be.

Dr. Steven Gundry (44:39):
Oh, okay. Very good. Very good.

Camille Hermann (44:41):
And my website is coming.

Dr. Steven Gundry (44:43):
All right. And, and thanks for bringing the message, uh, to the French audience and all my books. I really appreciate it. Uh, it’s, it’s really, it’s very nice. Uh, I can be really anywhere in France and people will come up to me o- on the street or in a restaurant and, you know, know me and thank me for what I’m doing. So I thank you for letting them know about that.

Camille Hermann (45:08):
Thank you, Dr. Gunnary.

Dr. Steven Gundry (45:09):
Appreciate it. Thanks for being here.