Dr. Gundry's private practice: (760) 323-5553

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to The Dr. Gundry Podcast, the weekly podcast where Dr. G gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life.

Dr. Gundry (00:14):
My next book in the best-selling Plant Paradox Series is coming in March. And you can pre-order it now at harperwave.com/energy. Energy Paradox is my fresh take at one of the top health issues plaguing Americans, fatigue. It outlines my revolutionary plan for revitalizing mental and physical stamina. You’ll feel better in no time. Learn more at harperwave.com/energy.

Dr. Gundry (00:45):
Welcome to The Dr. Gundry Podcast. Today I’m going to be talking about one of my new favorite super foods. This tiny nut is packed with vitamins, protein and lots of healthy fats. And it’s also the main ingredient in a new type of yogurt that I’m really excited about. I’m talking about the pili nut. And this yogurt is not only incredibly healthy and a big gut booster, but it’s also amazingly delicious. And you won’t even believe it’s not dairy yogurt.

Dr. Gundry (01:23):
So today I’m joined by the inventor of this fabulous yogurt, Liz Fisher. Liz and I are going to talk about the incredible journey that led her to start Lavva yogurt. And that’s spelled L-A-V-V-A. We’re also going to discuss how this little nut can dramatically boost your gut health and why many regular yogurts actually contain unhealthy ingredients that could actually hurt gut health. Liz, I’m so excited to have you on the podcast today.

Liz Fisher (01:57):
Oh. Thank you so much Dr. Gundry. I’m equally excited to be here.

Dr. Gundry (02:02):
So first things first, what the heck is a pili nut?

Liz Fisher (02:08):
Well, pili what? Pili nut. Nobody’s heard of it. I hadn’t heard of it. But it’s been around for centuries, and it lives in Southeast Asia. It is a tree nut that grows in the wild. And some of these trees are hundreds and hundreds of years old. And it is truly the ultimate stressed plant because it grows in volcanic soil and is surrounded by high winds and drought, and yet the worse the weather is, the more nuts the tree bear.

Dr. Gundry (03:02):
Oh. That’s my kind of tree.

Liz Fisher (03:06):

Dr. Gundry (03:08):
And so how did you stumble across this nut? I mean, were you walking through the jungles in Southeast Asia or…

Liz Fisher (03:18):
Gosh. I’ve been in the food industry for a long, long time, my whole career. But the pili nut is really a story of my own personal health. And I was diagnosed with advanced-stage ovarian cancer out of the blue. I was the healthiest person I knew really. But all of a sudden I was in the medical system. I had surgery and chemo and I was good for about a year and a half, but it did come back again. And at that time we decided to look at my diet as an adjunct to conventional medical care. And I went from about 75% of my calories from carbohydrates, good carbs, to about 75% of my calories from fats.

Liz Fisher (04:23):
And I wanted plant fats, and I wanted… So I was eating avocado and coconut and lots and lots of macadamia nuts. And I literally could not eat another one. So [inaudible 00:04:42] where I found the pili nut. And it turns out this nut has just a beautiful fatty acid profile. It’s rich, it’s primarily monounsaturated fatty acids, but it has this beautiful, neutral, buttery taste profile and mouthfeel. So I was using it as just a way of getting these optimum calories. And it was an easy thing to mix it with a little coconut milk and it formed this beautiful yogurt-like medium. And I knew immediately it was special.

Liz Fisher (05:31):
And so I’d sold non-dairy yogurt before, I knew they were mostly comprised of water and gums and sugars. And here it was this whole food yogurt and with nothing else. And I just said, “Well, others would want this.” So it was a dream at that time, because I was still going through my medical journey. And now here I am. That would be seven years later, I’m proud to say. So that’s the story of the pili nut.

Dr. Gundry (06:13):
So do you think this transformation from a fairly healthy high-carbohydrate diet to a healthy high-fat diet had something to do with the fact that you’re still here seven years later?

Liz Fisher (06:34):
I don’t think I could say that that was the secret. I had great medical care of course, but I am quite confident that the role of nutrition in my personal health journey and those of so many others just in terms of food as medicine and the connection is so profound. And for some of us, we have really made that a profound mission. And so I would have to say that nutrition in general played a very integral role to my full recovery.

Dr. Gundry (07:17):
Gotcha. So let’s back up a minute. What do most yogurt companies get wrong? What sort of shortcuts do yogurt companies make, particularly maybe the big ones?

Liz Fisher (07:30):
Well, I would say that many companies their favorite ingredient is water because the price is right. But I didn’t really know how yogurt was made. I now know. So most companies’ yogurts are about 70% water and the balance is additives. What we do at Lavva, is we start with young plantain, put it in a mixing bowl, big, big mixing bowl with pili nut butter, just moistened a little bit with water to make it into a moveable butter, and then add coconut cream. That goes through a pasteurizer and then we add the probiotics, diverse strains, very differentiated strains of probiotics, some that don’t even survive in dairy milk, cow’s milk.

Liz Fisher (08:38):
And that mixture goes literally directly into the cup, into the store. That’s it. So they’re very different processes, and many, many experts said that we couldn’t make Lavva yogurt. It wasn’t possible. And here we are.

Dr. Gundry (09:03):
So I mean, what made you decide… When I first saw the ingredients, I went, “Holy cow,” and “Where did she get all of this great intelligence?” How did you pick green plantains as the other ingredient, for instance?

Liz Fisher (09:24):
Well, I looked at it as a metabolic food. So plantains are really metabolized differently than bananas on a glycemic index. And we use young plantains which are very, very low in sugar, in Brix, as we call it, the sugar that’s naturally occurring in the plantain. But we did make some extraordinary discoveries that we couldn’t have planned, which is in addition to being low-glycemic, plantains contain something called resistant starch. And that is a natural prebiotic fiber.

Liz Fisher (10:13):
So when we mixed our probiotics into this plantain pili nut mixture, they just started propagating. I just backs… Doing backflips. And I was working with a very senior experienced yogurt maker. And he said he’d never seen a product behave like that in 30 years of making non-dairy yogurt. And when he got that excited, I got excited.

Dr. Gundry (10:50):
So, I’m guessing, where does the name Lavva come from?

Liz Fisher (10:57):
Well, from the volcanic soil is really the first V. So that’s where the nut grows. And I do believe it gets some of its micronutrition and antioxidants from that untouched soil. And it truly is a regenerative crop. Doesn’t need any extraneous water, no outside water. But the second V, that’s personal, that is really the victory for my recovery. And so there you have it.

Dr. Gundry (11:35):
Oh cool. All right. So I just thought it was a cute marketing gimmick instead of just lava. Very good. But maybe it is a cute marketing gimmick.

Liz Fisher (11:47):
Well, I think there’s some cuteness in there for sure.

Dr. Gundry (11:52):
All right. So, getting back, you’re eating all these fatty foods, you’re so sick of macadamia nuts, you can’t look at another one. You obviously wanted to make this a vegan yogurt from the start, I assume. So all of my non-vegans out there are already saying, “Why should I try a vegan yogurt if I’m not vegan? And besides, most vegan foods taste terrible.” Come on? Sell the skeptics. Okay.

Liz Fisher (12:30):
Okay. Well, I really think… We just recently got Paleo-certified. And paleo is kind of a modern day description of clean, even though it dates back to our ancestors who didn’t have cows and the whole ability to digest lactose, which is a milk sugar that is in most cows milk yogurt. So I think the flexitarian who are really looking at the supply chain and where the ingredients come from, what kind of environments they grew in, and then more importantly, how much they’ve been messed with, have they had a bunch of processing-aids and fillers and cheap additives and sugars and of course the water…

Liz Fisher (13:35):
I wanted something that was really a life force. It is a living product because it is still alive on the shelf and people, great cultures have throughout history have had yogurt on the table at every meal as a healthy accent to a balanced digestion.

Liz Fisher (14:04):
But it’s so much more than that, and I know from my medical journey that the brain and the gut are so connected. And of course, nobody talks about this better than you Dr. Gundry. And I’ve been following you for some time. The fact that you found me is… I marvel at that. But [crosstalk 00:14:32]-

Dr. Gundry (14:32):
We hunted you down.

Liz Fisher (14:35):
But you talk about sugar-craving behavior being generated by the bad bacteria, and how good bacteria can be the conquering heroes. We have studied our strains and not only how they survive in the cup during the life of the product, because our probiotic counts average 50 billion at the end of shelf life. So no matter how much time it spends, it’s still a living cultured food and very viable. So that is really the gut health. And the probiotic and the microbiome that’s in the yogurt itself is so differentiated and health-giving. My goal is that people can really find it to their table and make it part of their everyday life.

Dr. Gundry (15:47):
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Dr. Gundry (16:21):
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Dr. Gundry (16:57):
Thrivemarket.com/gundrypodcast. And here’s to your happy and healthy new year. I mean, did you start out of your kitchen or… Where did all this begin?

Liz Fisher (17:15):
I mean, I was eating the pili nuts out of a bag, but then I found that they whipped into this kind of mousse-like with a handheld blender. I knew that I would have to be in a commercial setting in order to make yogurt, because it does need to be made in a clean, aseptic environment. You can’t have any cross-contamination.

Liz Fisher (17:47):
So it is a very scientific process. And so we just did small batches and then scaled up and scaled up. And then we tried to figure out quantifying what was going on in nature, in the cups. So measuring the probiotics and trying to understand why they liked it so much.

Dr. Gundry (18:17):
And I want you to repeat that at the end of the shelf life there’s minimum of 50 billion live organisms.

Liz Fisher (18:28):

Dr. Gundry (18:29):
50 with a B.

Liz Fisher (18:30):
It’s [inaudible 00:18:30] when… I was selling kombucha before this, and of course, kombucha, most people buy kombucha because of the gut health benefits at… And I think people in many ways prefer to consume their fresh probiotics and cultured foods. Rather than a supplement… Although I take your supplement.

Dr. Gundry (18:54):
Well, thank you.

Liz Fisher (19:00):
And an average kombucha has about two billion to four billion on the first day of bottling, but then they begin to die because those probiotics need food. And so we have about 200 billion on our first day and yet… And they do die. And most yogurts, it does die off in the first three or four weeks, but… So we thought it was fair to measure it on the last day.

Dr. Gundry (19:38):
So there is a use-by-date on it. Yup. And if I find one in the back of my refrigerator, can I still have it?

Liz Fisher (19:51):
Well, sometimes like the fruit, because we don’t have any sugar… No sugar added across all the flavors, but we have some fruit flavors, we just add organic fruit, organic strawberry, blueberry, and raspberry. And those fruits kind of lose… They lose a little bit of vibrancy. So that’s where we put our date code. For the most part, it has about a 80-day shelf life.

Dr. Gundry (20:27):
Great. So, I love your yogurt and obviously I’m a fan of the plain for obvious reasons, but they’re all… And there’s really not a lot of sugar in your fruit-based ones, which is great. Are there any recipes or tips that you’ve developed that you can give our listeners? I mean, other than just eating the dumb stuff, what do you do with yogurt?

Liz Fisher (20:56):
Tons of recipes, I mean, sweet and savory, incredible tzatziki and even cream sauce for vegetables and meat, if that’s your inclination. But lots of baking uses. And all you need to go is our website, which is lovve with two Vs, lavva with two Vs, so there’s four Vs, and just hit recipes.

Dr. Gundry (21:35):
And how many people get your website wrong? I personally have gotten your website wrong, because I always…

Liz Fisher (21:44):
You will find us if you only do one V, we bought the single V. Who spells love with two Vs?

Dr. Gundry (21:54):
Well, we need more love, so what the heck. Maybe we [inaudible 00:21:58]…

Liz Fisher (21:58):
We certainly do.

Dr. Gundry (21:59):
All right. So any news or special announcements? We talked off camera, you guys seem to be appearing in a lot of stores. I have patients from all over the country who come and visit me, and we’re frequently looking up their zip code on your website to find a store. And I’ve just noticed that you seem to be… Maybe I’ve got it wrong. You seem to be exploding into a lot of kind of regular stores now. Is this true?

Liz Fisher (22:32):
I am happy to say that we are rapidly expanding and we are proud to be available nationwide. I do have some new news. We were contacted by a big national account and they said they’d been watching the pili nut and thought it might be able to have some emollient properties in a milk that would allow us to make a plant milk without vegetable oils. There’s a lot of added oils and thickeners and processing agents in a non-dairy milks. And I’m just going to show you this because I think it’s so pretty. These two lavva plant milks will be launching in whole foods nationwide starting in a few weeks.

Dr. Gundry (23:38):
Wow. And that would-

Liz Fisher (23:43):
And I steal one of your lines on the back. I believe I am calling it the ultimate stressed crop.

Dr. Gundry (23:55):
Marvelous. Marvelous. Great. So now there’s two of them. Are they flavors or what?

Liz Fisher (24:03):
This is a chocolate. Both are unsweetened and three simple ingredients in the unsweetened original. And then the chocolate which is unbelievably delicious is less than one gram of sugar per giant serving. We have pili nut, organic coconut water, filtered water, and unsweetened fair trade cocoa, maca and dates and mesquite powder. That’s it.

Dr. Gundry (24:50):
Oh. Fantastic. All right. Well, we’ll look forward… So next week it’s going to roll out or…

Liz Fisher (24:58):
Yes. Well, I think by the time your listeners hear us, we will be in all stores. So it hits the stores September 1st.

Dr. Gundry (25:08):
Oh. Fantastic. All right. So now wait a minute. Everybody’s going to want this, there’s going to be a run on pili nuts. How do you keep up with this? Are you going to deforest everything and plant pili nut trees everywhere or…

Liz Fisher (25:30):
Well, it’s so interesting. We’ve probably spent more resources on the supply chain than anything else, because there was a reason there were no pili nuts in the U.S. And it was a nascent ingredient. But initially we got a group of 200 farmers together to form a cooperative. We certified them as organic and fair trade. And some of these farmers had just three or four trees. They’re very, very proud of the pili nut. But we are happy to report we have signed a 10-year exclusive agreement with an entirely untouched, alternate source of pili nut, so there’s plenty coming.

Dr. Gundry (26:32):
Okay. Well, save some for me. I got a question for. You may not know the answer, but it sounds like you’re the world’s pili nut expert. I recently bought some pili nuts raw with the shell still on them, and it wasn’t the world’s greatest experience. But is that shell… I suspect there are a ton of interesting polyphenols in that shell.

Liz Fisher (27:02):
The skin?

Dr. Gundry (27:03):
Yeah. The skin.

Liz Fisher (27:04):
The skin-

Dr. Gundry (27:04):
Yeah. The skin.

Liz Fisher (27:05):
Was it roasted or-

Dr. Gundry (27:06):
No. It was raw.

Liz Fisher (27:10):
Just raw. Really, it doesn’t have a lot of tastes, which was a really good thing for using it as a base for our dairy alternative. That was the foundation to the discovery, was that it carried the flavors of other ingredients, not just itself having a dominant ingredient. So you’re absolutely right on the skin. It is loaded with polyphenols and fiber.

Dr. Gundry (27:40):
So do you use that skin when you…

Liz Fisher (27:44):
No. It does interfere with the creaminess.

Dr. Gundry (27:48):
I’ve figured.

Liz Fisher (27:49):
It adds a graininess. It is used however. Every aspect of this giant plant is used from the jack… It’s almost like a jackfruit. It’s got a [inaudible 00:28:05] soft, wooly, outer cover, and then a nut that you almost need a power tool to cut inside. And then within that is the fruit, which is what we’re using.

Dr. Gundry (28:21):
Gotcha. So maybe you need to make… I need to get royalty a chunky style yogurt with the peel still on it.

Liz Fisher (28:33):
Well, you can make a killer… You can make some killer products. It goes great with chocolate, that skin, that fiber and we’re working on Next Gen. We’ve got Next Gen coming out.

Dr. Gundry (28:49):

Liz Fisher (28:49):
And that’s just [inaudible 00:28:50] products using the skin.

Dr. Gundry (28:52):
Very good. Very good. Well, good for you. So all I got to do is go to lovvelavva with these Vs, Vs everywhere .com. And-

Liz Fisher (29:04):
[crosstalk 00:29:04].

Dr. Gundry (29:04):
… even if they put in one V on the love, they’ll find it. Right?

Liz Fisher (29:11):
I think we’ll find you. I hope we’ll find you.

Dr. Gundry (29:12):
Yeah. I wanted to have you on because I think you’re doing great for the environment, you’re doing great for indigenous people, giving them a livelihood. And folks you’ve heard me say over and over again, the more stressed the plant is, the more you want to eat its seeds or fruit, because you’re in for a real health benefit. And good luck on your journey with all this.

Liz Fisher (29:40):
Thank you. Can I ask you a question?

Dr. Gundry (29:43):

Liz Fisher (29:45):
So this food as medicine, you are leading the charge with your background and your training and the way you have made such… You’ve transformed so many lives. But I mean, people are really struggling out there with the pain of just coming with degenerative diseases and aging. And what role do you think food plays in that process?

Dr. Gundry (30:19):
Well, I wish I had thought of it, but Hippocrates said 2,500 years ago, all disease begins in the gut. And he was right. And he didn’t have the human microbiome project. Everything is really dependent on what we put in our mouths and what we feed our gut bacteria. And in the new book, which will be out after the first of the year, the Energy Paradox, we take it another step to show that there’s not only a gut-brain axis like you’ve alluded to, but there’s a microbiome gut-brain axis. And you’re right. The microbiome, we’re learning week by week controls almost everything that’s going to happen to us. Just literally like Hippocrates said. And it’s actually an exciting time.

Dr. Gundry (31:20):
It’s an exciting time because one of my mentors years ago said, “The purpose of research is to look again. Re-research.” And he always say, he says, “Look, there’s nothing new to be discovered, but there’s a universe of things to be rediscovered that have been forgotten.” And again, Hippocrates, if we’d listened to him 2,500 years ago, we probably wouldn’t have any degenerative diseases. So we just got to get back to that.

Liz Fisher (31:55):
And your colleagues, fellow physicians and communicators, why do you think there’s been such a wall between medicine and food?

Dr. Gundry (32:09):
Well, remember most of our education, most physicians are trained essentially in medical schools that are controlled by large pharmaceutical companies. And most of our education comes from pharmaceutical companies. And sadly because of economic pressure, the normal physician can only spend 10 minutes a day with a patient. And that’s usually now in front of a computer, not even looking at a patient and writing prescriptions. But there’s definitely a movement among functional medicine practitioners, what I call restorative medicine. Yeah. Because I think a lot of healthcare professionals are just fed up that this isn’t what any of us thought that we would be doing.

Dr. Gundry (33:01):
This isn’t why really any of us went into medicine. We actually wanted to help people. And writing prescriptions isn’t… Yeah. Don’t get me wrong. There’s certain prescriptions that you need, just like if you break a leg, you need a cast, but you’re not going to wear a cast the rest of your life, something’s going to heal.

Dr. Gundry (33:21):
So it’s going to be a process. And remember, big food does not want this to change. And big food and big pharmacy are linked. What’s good for illness is good for pharmaceuticals and it’s good for big food. So good for you. So keep at it. Okay?

Liz Fisher (33:47):
Thank you very much. We’re in it together. You send a man and I’ll fill it on the other side.

Dr. Gundry (33:58):
All right. So yeah. Go look for lovvelavva.com. Okay? All right. Well, thanks again Liz, and good luck. And I’ll be looking for your pili nut milk and we’ll give it a try.

Liz Fisher (34:12):
Thank you.

Dr. Gundry (34:12):
All right.

Liz Fisher (34:12):
Thank you. Well, we’re going to send you some specially. I have to.

Dr. Gundry (34:16):
Oh. Great. We love it.

Liz Fisher (34:18):
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:34:18]-

Dr. Gundry (34:18):

Liz Fisher (34:19):

Dr. Gundry (34:19):
Thanks a lot.

Liz Fisher (34:19):
Thank you.

Dr. Gundry (34:21):

Liz Fisher (34:21):

Dr. Gundry (34:24):
Hey everybody. It’s Dr. Gundry here. And I’ve got some very exciting news. Right now, you can sign up for Dr. Gundry’s newsletter. As a subscriber, you’ll get updates about new episodes of the Dr. Gundry podcast, where we talk about all things health. Trust me, you won’t want to miss out. I’ll also keep you in the loop of all the things I’m up to from news to events to special appearances. Visit www.drgundry.com to sign up.

Dr. Gundry (34:57):
Okay. It is time for our audience question. This week, Chief Oft Weekers on Instagram asked, “Can too much vitamin C give you kidney stones?” That’s actually a very good question. And it’s talked a lot about. Here’s the problem. We, as you probably know, vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin. We don’t do a great job of absorbing it. And shortly after we absorb it, we excrete it in our urine. So really the upper limit of how much vitamin C you can handle is probably four to five grams a day. Anything more than that most people are going to develop diarrhea as a direct irritant from the vitamin C.

Dr. Gundry (35:58):
So my recommendations are, because vitamin C is excreted so rapidly, you really want to get yourself time to release vitamin C capsules. And I recommend a thousand milligrams twice a day. If that’s too hard to do, if it’s hard to come by, certainly go get the chewable tablets that you can find most anywhere about 500 milligrams and chew one, four times a day. And you’ll actually achieve what you’re looking for.

Dr. Gundry (36:32):
You don’t need to go any higher than that. You always have to remember that we’re one of the few animals that do not manufacture vitamin C. And I’ve done other podcasts. Vitamin C is actually manufactured from glucose, and it’s a five-step enzymatic process. And it takes a ton of glucose to make vitamin C. And we have all the genes that code for those enzymes, except the last gene is what’s called a ghost gene. It’s inactive. And we think that one of the reasons we don’t make vitamin C like Guinea pigs and great apes is that we had lots of vitamin C in our diet from the leaves and the fruits that we ate.

Dr. Gundry (37:20):
And so we didn’t need to waste glucose in manufacturing vitamin C. But the interesting thing is vitamin C is absolutely positively essential for linking collagen, that wonderful stuff that prevents wrinkles and holds our blood vessels together. So you really should have a continuous supply of vitamin C. And let me just give you one little teasing fun study. They took rats and they genetically engineered them to knock out that last gene in the vitamin C sequence so the rats had the same genes as humans.

Dr. Gundry (38:02):
In other words, they couldn’t manufacture vitamin C. Those rats, without the ability to manufacture vitamin C lived only half as long as rats that had the ability to make vitamin C eating rat chow. When they put vitamin C in those rats water, those rats instantaneously achieved the length of life they were supposed to have if they made vitamin C.

Dr. Gundry (38:35):
So as someone who is very interested in longevity and my longevity and your longevity, getting a continuous amount of vitamin C in you is probably one of the smartest and easiest longevity tricks you can do. And it’s cheap and easy to do. So great question. Review of the week. Now for our review of the week, this week’s review comes from Suzanne Elliott on YouTube, who wrote, “Very interesting podcast. I’ve been on the Dr. Gundry diet now for about 18 months, and I’ve lost 16 kilograms. I have to say that I am amazingly surprised by the changes in my body. I no longer have a ravenous appetite. After listening to your video last night, I thought I’d skip breakfast today and not snack. I can’t believe I was able to do it. I’m so…” Lots of Os, “Grateful to you for your program, Dr. Gundry. I’m so excited about reading your next book on Energy when it comes out. I watch all of your videos, I’ve read all your books, and I think you are way ahead of conventional knowledge on a healthy diet.

Dr. Gundry (39:49):
Here in Australia, dieticians largely promote a whole grain diet. I wished I had known all your information 50 years ago. I’m 70, just like you. Thank you very much for your work.” Well, thank you for sharing Suzanne. When I left surgery to do this 20 years ago, I had no idea where this journey was going to take me. But I knew I could help millions of people improve their health and expand their lifespans. And I’m definitely glad I could help you. And everything I learn from you and all my viewers and all my patients has helped me at 70, be a lot younger than I was at 50 when I started this. So thanks a lot.

Dr. Gundry (40:35):
This is why we do this. And I really appreciate the writing-in. So, I love hearing from you. So remember, you can reach out to me on Instagram, YouTube, or on my website dr.gundry.com, or leave a rating and review on iTunes. Believe it or not, it’s a huge help for me to reach more of people who a lot of us would agree need reaching out to. So we’ll see you next week on The Dr. Gundry Podcast. Disclaimer. On The Dr. Gundry Podcast, we provide a venue for discussion and the views expressed by my guests do not necessarily reflect my own.

Dr. Gundry (41:20):
Thanks for joining me on this episode of The Dr. Gundry Podcast. Before you go, I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google play, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to watch each episode of The Dr. Gundry Podcast, you can always find me on YouTube, @youtube.com/drgundry, because I’m Dr. Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you.