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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast, the weekly podcast where Dr. G gives you the tools you need to boost your health and live your healthiest life.

Dr. Gundry (00:15):
Welcome to the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Do you ever experience racing thoughts, restlessness or the feeling of impending doom? Well, if the answer is yes, you are certainly not alone. As a matter of fact, feeling this way is extremely common, particularly now. According to the Anxiety and Depression Association of America, roughly 40 million adults suffer from anxiety, but very few get the help that they need. Let’s face it, this worldwide pandemic is not exactly helping our anxiety levels or our depression for that matter. The good news is, being creative and expressing yourself through art and writing can help reshape your mindset for the better, and my guest today wants to help.

Dr. Gundry (01:08):
In a moment, I’ll speak with Meera Lee Patel. Meera is a talented artist and author. She’s also a columnist at Spirituality & Health where she writes and draws about mental health. She’s got a new book coming out shortly called, Create Your Own Calm: A Journal for Quieting Anxiety, a book of beautiful illustrations, inspirational quotes and writing exercises. She’s had many more, I happen to have been reading Start Where You Are, so I started where I am. It’s full of beautiful pictures and some great inspiration. So, on this episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast, Meera and I will talk about how art, writing and reflection can help you ease your anxiety and live a better, more fulfilling life. Meera, thank you for coming to the program.

Meera Lee Patel (02:02):
Thank you for having me. I’m very happy to be here.

Dr. Gundry (02:04):
Welcome. First of all, tell my listeners a bit about yourself and how you became an artist as you didn’t start your career off there, right?

Meera Lee Patel (02:16):
No. I went to school for English and journalism and I was all set to become a journalist. After graduating, I got a job at a technical publishing company where I edited papers written by electrical engineers. This was a huge win for my father who is an electrical engineer, but it was not really a great fit for me. After doing this job for about a year, I started to feel a big sense of disconnect between how I was spending all of my time and who I was, and I found that I was unable to recognize myself. So, I started painting and writing again as simply that, as a way to reconnect and to figure out where had I gone.

Meera Lee Patel (03:09):
After I started drawing, I started selling my work fully online, doing little markets and things like that, and I saw that there was a whole creative community that contrary to what I had been taught and what I had grown up knowing, and these were people that had creative careers and were making a living, and they had families and they had homes and they had built a sustainable lifestyle. I decided that that is what I wanted for myself. So, I continued working, I stayed on my job for seven more years while freelancing full time. It was after that, after seven years that I was finally able to quit, and pursue a career as the full time writer and an artist.

Dr. Gundry (04:00):
So, we talked about this off camera, but you’re a first generation American, and we know often the pressures of actually any first generation American, that their parents usually want them to pursue expected careers, and those careers are often being a doctor or being a lawyer or being an engineer or being what our parents assumed would be a proper career here in America. Were you subject to those same sort of pressures?

Meera Lee Patel (04:43):
Yes. There was a big emphasis on good grades, get an education, and the reason for that was to secure a good job and have stability. While I now understand those and maybe even understood them while I was growing up, it didn’t make it any easier to live a life for somebody else. I very often felt that I was living life for my parents and not for me, and the pressures, I think that first generation children feel evolved into a lot of different emotions that can lead to anxiety and depression, namely I think shame for not wanting the same life as your family, and also a lot of guilt because you know firsthand what they have sacrificed and what they have given up to give you such a stable and safe place, the complete opposite of what they had growing up.

Dr. Gundry (05:47):
That brings me to something else we talked about. You talked about growing up with a scarcity mindset, and I think you just alluded to that. Give me some more of what you mean by a scarcity mindset.

Meera Lee Patel (06:02):
So, a scarcity mindset, the way I grew up in it, is the belief that there is never enough, and that creates competition not only with people around you when it comes to getting into a school or looking for a job or accepting an assignment, but it also created a lot of competition for me within myself, between the person that I felt I was and the person I felt I had to be. Scarcity mindsets convinces you that if you don’t accept every opportunity that comes your way, even if it’s not a good fit for you, that there will never be another one.

Meera Lee Patel (06:47):
If you spend a little bit of your savings, you will never be able to replenish it. If he leave a relationship that isn’t healthy for you, you may never find another one. So, it does a really good job of keeping you in the same place and limiting your growth and limiting the amount that change that you not only become comfortable with, but allow yourself to create.

Dr. Gundry (07:14):
As you were growing up, was art, was drawing or writing or painting one of the ways you dealt with this growing up or I mean, were you interested in these things from day one?

Meera Lee Patel (07:30):
Yes. I was a very creative child, a very creative teenager, and my parents were extremely encouraging. I don’t mean to say that they weren’t supportive of my interests, they were very much so, they just didn’t believe that you could build a career off of it, but it wasn’t a stable career. So they encouraged me always to pursue my hobbies and my interests, but to have something extremely stable that could hold me upright through it all.

Dr. Gundry (08:02):
That’s not a bad goal of any parent for their child-

Meera Lee Patel (08:07):
Of course.

Dr. Gundry (08:10):
Your parents don’t want you living in their basement when you’re 30 or 35 years old, at least, hopefully not. So, this obviously created a lot of anxiety for you particularly, because your parents, I’m sure, were very persuasive that you need to do something to put food on the table, because we’re not going to be here forever for you.

Meera Lee Patel (08:43):

Dr. Gundry (08:47):
So how do you balance that? Do you write journals?

Meera Lee Patel (08:53):
I write journals. I think the important thing for me was to learn and separate which of the fears that I had within me were mine, and which ones had been given to me by my parents. So, because I had been raised with scarcity mindset, did that mean that I as a functioning adult also believed in that philosophy? Did I really believe that if I turned down an opportunity I would never be offered another one? So, Start Where You Are, my first journal, it’s a journal for self exploration. It encourages introspection, which all of my work does, because I have found that the greatest freedom in overcoming my fears and overcoming my anxiety and creating a life that I am proud of is all rooted in knowing myself better.

Meera Lee Patel (09:51):
In getting to know who I am, what I believe in, what my values are, aside from the ones that have been taught to me by not only my parents, but the people in my life, society, culture, et cetera. So the root of it for me, what I’ve learned is to separate yourself from all the noise and really figure out how to hear yourself.

Dr. Gundry (10:15):
Now, were you able to do that all by yourself? Did you need to find mentors and guides to help you understand this? Or how do you acquire this knowledge?

Meera Lee Patel (10:35):
I haven’t had any mentors or teachers in that regard but I will say that I was raised with Eastern philosophy, and that has helped me very much so in finding connectivity within myself and within the world. It has also been a big underlying current between having the ability to empathize with other people and seeing myself inside other people. So, those core philosophies that I was raised with, I think have really helped me hone in on what my perspective of life in the world is and make these changes for myself, even though they went against a lot of the culture that I was raised within.

Dr. Gundry (11:27):
So you mentioned that you stuck with this job that you hated for seven years, I was doing The Skinny Confidential podcast a little bit ago, and one of the things that struck me is good advice, and it sounds like you did this, is don’t necessarily leave a job you hate, but have a side gig that you love. I think many people make the mistake of having a stable job that really isn’t what they really want to do, but it does put a roof over your head and does let you get the essentials while pursuing something else. In fact, the host, Lauren was a bartender and she learned more about life bartending and enjoyed it far more than what she was doing as her day job. So, is that what you were doing, did you have a side gig to figure out that you could actually enjoy this and do this and maybe make a living and then you jumped?

Meera Lee Patel (12:44):
Yes. So the whole time that I was working at my full time job, I was also freelancing as an illustrator and a writer. I agree with you, and I don’t think that my parents were wrong in instilling the notion of stability within me, but I will say that I stayed with my job out of fear, a fear of not having stability, a fear of losing my independence. Those fears and anxiety kept me there for perhaps longer than I needed to be. But if I am often asked, If you did it again, would you do it differently?” The answer is no, because I agree with Lauren, I learned discipline, I learned how to create structure for myself, I learned how to work very hard, how to compartmentalize, how to multitask, how to balance two jobs at once. Those are skills that are a huge asset for me as somebody who now works for herself.

Meera Lee Patel (13:55):
It’s not easy to run a business, it is not easy to be a creative that runs the business. There’s so much as having a small business that has nothing to do with painting and writing. In fact, the creating part is a very, very small percentage of what I spend my time doing. So I do contribute all of the experience that I gained at my full time job with allowing me to successfully run a business now.

Dr. Gundry (14:23):
That is actually incredibly insightful. Yeah, and I mean that as a real compliment, because your right, creative people often times do not do mundane tasks well or want to do mundane tasks. How is that? Is that-

Meera Lee Patel (14:49):
I think that’s very-

Dr. Gundry (14:50):
Good way of describing it?

Meera Lee Patel (14:51):
Very accurate, yeah.

Dr. Gundry (14:53):
Yeah. Yeah, and that’s great. I mean, you literally learn how to keep way blinders on and you learn things, even doing things that you really didn’t want to do.

Meera Lee Patel (15:07):
Yeah. I think it also instilled a sense of tenacity within me, which I think is really important for any person who’s going to work for themselves. You have to have a fire inside you that enables you to keep going even when you don’t want to. If you don’t have a boss, if you don’t have somebody that you have to answer to, it can be incredibly easy to just slip away from it all. So, I do think that it instilled that work ethic, that dedication and that drive that I think is imperative for any freelancer to succeed.

Dr. Gundry (15:47):
Now, you obviously deal with a lot of people who deal with depression and anxiety, as well as the creative space, is being a creative person … Are creative people, let’s just generalize, more subject to anxiety and depression than people who don’t consider themselves as a creative person?

Meera Lee Patel (16:14):
I don’t think they’re necessarily [inaudible 00:16:19] I go back and forth, I do find that in my experience, creatives are extremely sensitive. They are very in tune with their emotions and they are very prone to examining every single little thought that comes into their brain, and being that hyper aware of your own thoughts can lead to a lot of anxiety. So, from my experience with my peers, a lot of us do suffer from anxiety, and with the internet being the number one place to show our work and to get jobs and to sell our work and build a career, there’s a lot of imposter syndrome, there’s a lot of self doubt, there’s a lot of self-loathing that comes along with seeing and comparing ourselves to other creatives on the internet. So, I do think that, having a mental health practice and knowing your own brain and the tendencies that it slips into is really important in managing your health.

Dr. Gundry (17:35):
So, can you give me two or three examples that people watching or listening can use to ease their anxiety? You brought up some really instances of these thoughts pop into your brain, how do you figure out which is an important thought and which one isn’t?

Meera Lee Patel (17:59):
I think that something that I emphasize a lot in my work is using … once you figure out what exercises work for you, because there are such a wide range, and everybody deals with anxiety and depression differently, once you figure out what works for you, it is important to cultivate a practice and rewire your brain so that it reacts to panic and fear and anxiety differently. So one of the simplest exercises I think anybody can do almost anywhere that you are, is to harness the power of repetition.

Meera Lee Patel (18:37):
So, I encourage people to pick a word or a phrase that feels calming to them, and I often these days when I’m having trouble falling asleep, I literally use the word calm as my basis for this exercise, and you want to either write or draw it over and over again. So, all you need is a pen, a crayon or anything, and a piece of paper, and you want to repeat the word. If you don’t want to write, you can draw a shape, a triangle or a square and begin filling it in with doodles. The point is to get you out of your head and into a state of active meditation, where you can be in the present and you can turn off the cycle of anxiety that tend to churn in our heads.

Meera Lee Patel (19:30):
Another exercise for anxiety that I like, again, that you can do anywhere, and I don’t know if you have this experience at doctor’s offices waiting, while you’re waiting, that can be a place where people feel a lot of anxiety. I encourage them to sit and notice where they feel tense within their body, where are you holding the anxiety? What parts of your body feel hardened and tightened? Then breathe in through your nose, exhale through your mouth and focus on those places and continue doing this slowly, until you feel those place start to react. Relax, rather.

Meera Lee Patel (20:17):
The last part of this, which I think a lot of us probably skip over is, I really encourage people to know how did you feel before and after doing exercise, and that is important for your own benefit and your own knowledge and realizing what your body and your mind react to and what is helpful and what is not.

Dr. Gundry (20:41):
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Dr. Gundry (21:35):
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Meera Lee Patel (22:42):
I personally think it’s incredibly sometime. I think that, when you’re doodling, you’re engaging different parts of your brain that aren’t normally activated. I think, as I mentioned before, it’s a great way to participate in active meditation, which a lot of us, especially in this time and space need, we don’t have the capacity to go from, go, go, go to sit on the floor and clear your mind for 20 minutes. It’s simply not possible. So, a good transition is active meditation when some part of your body is moving, but you’re still focusing on calming your body, calming your mind and staying in the present.

Meera Lee Patel (23:30):
So I find doodling to be a great acts of meditation. It’s a great way for you to be in the moment, to be a little bit more still to get into that flow state that can be really hard to tap into, and yet it keeps you occupied, and for a lot of us simply having something to do, fidgeting, doodling, repeating a mantra, that can be very self-soothing, and it can make it easier for us to turn towards things like meditation.

Dr. Gundry (24:06):
I’m glad to hear you say that because actually all through college and medical school, I doodled on my notes everywhere. Once a week in the hospital, we would have a cardiac cath hour and a half where we’d review films and plan operations of hearts, and we had a notepad that we would take notes on. And of course I’d be doodling, watching these things. So, thanks goodness, it was okay for me to doodle. Right? I feel much better about myself now.

Meera Lee Patel (24:45):

Dr. Gundry (24:46):
Actually I’ve never told anybody that. Yeah, yeah. I was a doodler. I guess I gave up [crosstalk 00:24:52]

Meera Lee Patel (24:52):
I think it worked out great for you. Yeah.

Dr. Gundry (24:59):
So, where do we cross the line between doodling and artwork? Where do you see your art … Let’s start with your art, where do you see that helping you deal with anxiety?

Meera Lee Patel (25:19):
My artwork becomes an active meditation. I will find not as often as I wish for it to, because it is hard to turn my mind off this, but I don’t believe that the end result what a painting, what some might call a painting, I don’t think that compared with a doodle or a scribble is something what somebody would call a doodle. There’s no difference in either of those when it comes to how it releases stress. I’m not explaining this correctly. What I mean to say is, what it looks like doesn’t matter as much as the act of doing it. So, it could be a doodle, it could be an oil painting, it could be writing a poem, what matters is how you feel while you’re participating in the activity and where your brain is. If your brain is with you in that moment, in that activity, then I think it could be very helpful as a meditation and as a way to calm yourself.

Dr. Gundry (26:30):
When you first started doing art as your side gig, I guess-

Meera Lee Patel (26:40):

Dr. Gundry (26:41):
Oftentimes people say art is in the eye of the beholder, did you know you were a good artist or did you just like what you drew or painted? Did the feedback come from showing these things to friends and trying to sell them? Tell me how that got started.

Meera Lee Patel (27:01):
I think asking any artists if they like their work or if they think they are good at artist is dangerous, because I will say that even now, I don’t think my work is where I want it to be, and I don’t think my skill level is where I want it to be, it’s a constant wanting to be better and wanting to produce better work. Have I found success with my work? Yes. And do people want to buy my work and does that make me feel good? Yes, but my expectations for myself and for what I produce are always climbing and they’re always changing because I as a person, I’m changing. If I am making honest and genuine work, which is a reflection of me, that means that as I change the work is always changing and it always feels that I am trying to catch up to … There is always a lag between my physical ability to produce what is in my head. So, it’s a constant evolution and it’s a constant learning and trying and failing and continuing to try.

Dr. Gundry (28:24):
That’s a very good insight as well, I’m a fan of a rock band called Dawes, D-A-W-E-S, and their lead singer and writer really started as a writer, a lyricist. They had a good commercial success, I guess, with their first album. Then he says, “Oh my gosh, I’ve got to become a much better guitar player. I have to become a much better musician because, what do I do next?” It’s exactly right. He had initial success and that propelled him to take his level of craft to a higher level.

Meera Lee Patel (29:09):

Dr. Gundry (29:12):
I think that happens in all art forms. It certainly happens as a surgeon and you’re always trying to perfect your craft and it’s never perfect.

Meera Lee Patel (29:25):
I agree. Also, I love that you mentioned yourself as a surgeon, because something that people also ask me is like, “How can I become creative?” I am a big believer that creativity is not reserved for visual or performing artists, creativity is about perspective and how you approach whatever it is you’re doing. So for you, that is medicine and surgery, and there is a lot of creativity I know that you put into that. I just wanted to mention that because for anybody who’s listening that feels that they’re not creative, I think creativity can be how you approach a conversation or how you’re doing the dishes, or it can be part of your morning walk, is something that is applicable anywhere, to whatever you might be engaged in.

Dr. Gundry (30:22):
Another very good insight, if you have to do something good at anything, you actually have to be a creative person, whether you know it or not. Yeah, good point. Okay. Now this may sound controversial, but anxiety isn’t always a bad thing, right? I mean, isn’t anxiety one of the things that is a super power for artists in a way?

Meera Lee Patel (30:48):
I think it is. I think that anxiety is often rooted in a fear, and that particular fear is usually trying to tell you something. In my experience, it’s trying to tell you something that is very valuable or important to you. If you take the time to pull that fear and the anxiety closer and examine it and ask yourself, “Why do I feel this way? What am I afraid of happening? If this fear comes true, how will I handle it?” If you answer all of these questions, it leads you down a path of self exploration, and that is a super power, the ability to know yourself and to know what you want, equips you to change your life, to move towards shaping your life that actually resembles one you want, if you don’t know what you want, you can’t go after anything.

Meera Lee Patel (31:47):
So I do think our anxieties and fears have the ability to lead us down introspection. I also think that anxiety, if you are careful not to turn it into shame, if it is something that you can be open with yourself about, and maybe talk to trusted people about, it can lead to very beautiful vulnerability, and vulnerability is another super power because it allows you to connect with people. It allows somebody to look at you and to see themselves in you. I think some of the most beautiful relationships, connections, the feeling, the very, I think, rare and coveted feeling of being seen for who you actually are, those are all effects of vulnerability. So, those are two ways that I think anxiety can truly be a superpower.

Dr. Gundry (32:42):
Okay. That’s a good segue. Tell our listeners a little bit about, Create Your Own Calm, and the inspiration behind that.

Meera Lee Patel (32:55):
Sure. Create Your Own Calm is a journal, an interactive journal for quieting anxiety. What that means is that, it is filled with exercises and prompts that the reader has to participate in, in order to feel the effects. My philosophy behind the journal is really rooted in self-acceptance because I have found that my biggest source of anxiety has been when my heart and my mind and my body have all been battling against each other. Accepting my anxiety, accepting that I have certain fears and that I’m going to work on getting to know them and understand what they were trying to tell me, has helped me soothe my anxiety and not eradicate it, but learn how to manage it.

Meera Lee Patel (33:50):
I also approach the exercises in the book in a myriad of different ways. We touch on daily meditation, physical exercise, nature, creating meaningful connections within yourself, your relationship and your work. I tackle it on all fronts because the root of everyone’s anxiety is different, but I do believe that it is usually resting within a place of disconnect. There is a disconnect between you and something you need, and that is where anxiety grows. So the book really tries to help you identify what your disconnects may be and help you figure out what is the best way for you to manage those.

Dr. Gundry (34:39):
So your book is full of inspirational quotes, you got any favorites or one favorite?

Meera Lee Patel (34:49):
I actually do have one favorite. I wrote it down for you. It is by Albert Einstein and it says, “Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance, you must keep moving.” I am a big subscriber of that philosophy. My personal mantra is action changes attitudes, and I have lived the belief that taking small steps every day, small incremental, almost invisible steps will eventually lead to a whole new life. Whenever you feel stuck in your head or your heart, or you feel discouraged or paralyzed, the one thing that will change how you feel is taking an action, the feeling itself won’t go away on its own, you must take an action and then the feeling will change.

Dr. Gundry (35:47):
That’s a very existentialist philosophy that I completely agree with that. You got to take an action. Sorry about that.

Meera Lee Patel (36:00):
Yeah. It’s all up to you.

Dr. Gundry (36:01):
[crosstalk 00:36:01] you’re right. So, what’s the most rewarding part of what you do now? Is there anything … Give me an example of an impact that you’ve had on another person that really resonated with you?

Meera Lee Patel (36:18):
I receive a lot of letters from teachers and therapists that use my journals with their patients, and I have to say that that is something that stuns me every time, and that I feel so grateful and honored by to have created some things that a licensed therapist and teacher believes is useful in their practices. I get these letters weekly, and I don’t think I would ever stop pinching myself or thinking how amazing it is to make something from the heart and find that it has the ability to help somebody else.

Dr. Gundry (37:08):
That’s fantastic. Okay, now I got a question for you. I have a very dear friend who is very spiritual and she is a huge believer in journaling, and even has some books on journaling, and you probably know her name but I’m not going to tell you. What if you’re not a journaler, is it possible to do this without actually writing these things down or is writing part of the process?

Meera Lee Patel (37:45):
That’s a great question. I think that, of course it is possible to do any of this work without writing it down, but the writing makes it far easier. I find that writing the thought down is almost akin to physically taking it from your mind, taking it out of your mind. So in that way, you’re giving your brain space and room to breathe and it alleviates you. So, I understand somebody who feels they’re not a journaler and sometimes they think that word itself can turn people away, but everybody writes, you write a grocery list, you write down notes, you write down song lyrics or a thought that comes into your head.

Meera Lee Patel (38:43):
I would encourage people to reframe the way they think about journaling and to try it maybe if they never have and see if it works for them, because they do find that again, that activity, the physical act of writing is very beneficial when you’re doing introspective work.

Dr. Gundry (39:05):
Good point. I obviously journal in another way. I’ve written over 300 medical papers. I’ve written a bunch of books, so yes. You’re right. In a way, I don’t like to write, but I write all the time and it’s … All right. Well, Meera, thanks so much for joining me today. Where do people find you and your work, and where’s the book going to be available and websites, et cetera, et cetera?

Meera Lee Patel (39:39):
My website is meeralee.com, where they can learn more about my work and my books. Create Your Own Calm will be available everywhere online and in bookstores everywhere. I post most active on Instagram @meeraleepatel.

Dr. Gundry (39:57):
People, she’s a great resource and search her out and obviously a lot of wisdom there. So, thanks again for coming on the program and good luck with the book and please in this time of anxiety through the roof, it’s time to take some of her recommendations to heart, and it’s going to help you a lot. All right. Thank you very much.

Meera Lee Patel (40:23):
Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Gundry (40:26):
Okay. It’s time for our audience question [Estar 00:40:30] 0077 on YouTube wrote in and asked, “Can you talk about colon hydrotherapy? Is it a good idea to do it?” That is a great question and happy to talk about it. So, those of you who don’t know, it’s often called colonics and the history of colonics is fascinating. Bear with me for a minute, back in the late 1900s, there was a theory that became incredibly popular to explain diseases, and it was called autointoxication. The theory was that, bacteria in your gut, in your colon and in your mouth were the cause of most diseases.

Dr. Gundry (41:29):
Now, if you think that sounds familiar, it’s that we are now rapidly embracing the fact that Hippocrates was right, that all disease begins in the gut, and in the auto toxicity movement, it was that the bacteria in the gut, in the mouth were causing intoxication of the human being with various bacterial particles, and that in its extreme, which actually happened in the 1930s and 1940s, people were literally having their entire large bowel or colon removed surgically and all their teeth pulled to stop auto toxicity, it went to that far. But prior to that, the theory was that these bacteria in your large bowel were the cause of auto toxicity and that they should be removed by literally taking a garden hose and cleaning out your colon. This is where hydrotherapy really got it start.

Dr. Gundry (42:47):
Now, my personal feeling is, that’s the last thing that you want to do, and you’ve got four to five pounds of incredibly important bacteria, fungi that not only shouldn’t be washed out, but should be fostered. As you know, most of everything I teach is, you got to give the gut buddies what they want and they in fact will take care of you. You’ll see in the upcoming book, The Energy Paradox, how we’re going to take that to the next level, because without the products that those guys produce, you’re actually going to be sapped with energy. So, no, I am not a believer in colon hydrotherapy. I know how the theory of how it might help come about, but quite frankly, it’s the last thing you really want to do to support your health, auto intoxication, thankfully, that theory died a horrible death after many thousands of people had their colons surgically removed and their teeth pulled, and that’s not the way to good health.

Dr. Gundry (43:56):
So, but great question. Okay. Review of the week, following my recent chat with Mark Manson, the author of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F-U-C-K, Carol Gray on YouTube wrote, “I really enjoyed this, it warmed the cockles of my heart, it’s very uplifting. Just hearing you both sharing and laughing.” Well, we had a good time with that. That was actually the first time I had ever met him, and if you haven’t listened to it, I actually thoroughly enjoyed that, and I guess we did have a few good laughs. But thanks for noticing, we were having a good time and hope you liked it. Thanks.

Dr. Gundry (44:39):
Thanks for joining me on this episode of the Dr. Gundry Podcast. Before you go, I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to watch each episode of the Dr. Gundry podcast, you can always find me on YouTube at youtube.com/doctorgundry, because I’m Dr. Gundry, and I’m always looking out for you.